Explaining hunting in africa

[Slider]

Hunt Wild Africa not S.A. problem solved.

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Hunt Wild Africa not S.A. problem solved.

Not exactly. First, that's not accurate saying all of South Africa is "not Wild Africa." Second, most of the folks that want to argue or ridicule you for hunting Africa thinks all of Africa is one big country. They typically don't have a clue about the 58 or so countries that make up Africa.

 

[Wiley64]

just tell them the hunting areas I select are participating in habitat conservation with the help of the government

 

[Houston Bill]

Most folks I talk to are simply uneducated or ignorant to any hunting outside of their immediate world.

I generally break them down into three groups...

The first group are the "if I cant eat it (bring the meat home) I am not going to hunt it." or "I am a meat hunter, I don't hunt just for sport" group. These are usually the same people that will spend a week every year at "deer camp" with the same people and never kill anything. IMO this group tends to be more set in their ways, smaller thinking, and require a basic discussion about wildlife conservation.

The second group see hunting in Africa (or abroad) as extravagant. i.e my dad and many from his generation got their education from reading about Teddy Roosevelt and the year long, full bag safaris with animals that are now on display in the Smithsonian. "It's all for the rich and famous" and the "it must be nice" comments usually fall into this group.
These people are usually easy to talk to and will understand the basic economics of conservation and how the safari industry has evolved over the years. They usually will understand basic wildlife conservation when it's explained in ways they understand. They usually require the group 1 discussions as they progress.

The last group is the anti's. "I don't understand why we cant just leave all the animals alone" or "Why do you have to kill these animals" These are the folks that truly do not get wildlife conservation and usually don't want to understand it. Most are hopeless just because they don't want to hear it. Some can be educated, but usually require a lot of effort just to get them moved into group 2 or group 1.

The only way folks will learn is if we educated them. One at a time... It's a bi.ch. But it can be done.

@Sue Tidwell book is an excellent resource and I frequently recommend it to folks that I have these discussions with.

Cries of the Savanna: An adventure. An awakening. A journey to understanding African wildlife conservation.: Tidwell, Sue: 9781737903925: Amazon.com: Books

Buy Cries of the Savanna: An adventure. An awakening. A journey to understanding African wildlife conservation. on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

www.amazon.com

I think @Mekaniks has nailed it and I could not have said it better myself. I have also sent a few copies of Sue Tidwell's book to people I know in an effort to help educate them.

While there will be some people we run into that will have such a closed mind that educating them will be impossible. However, there are many that if we spend a bit of time educating them about hunting in general and specifically in Africa they will at least have a better understanding of the basic wildlife conservation benefits and the benefits for the local people.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I must be fortunate to live in a more forgiving place? (rural SW Alaska) I do not doubt there are people here who probably find hunting in Africa, or anywhere, distasteful. However, hunting is sooooo much a a part of the fabric of living here, that even those who don't hunt are pretty darned tolerant. I have yet to have a negative interaction. I was asked to have a public presentation to tell about hunting in Africa (I did give one). The biggest thing I run into is those who are uncertain about property sizes and fences, and they are polite in asking. Heck, I didn't even have a negative encounter in Anchorage last month during the Great Alaska Sportsman's Show - it was all positive.

 

[baxterb]

Usually when people open their mouths too wide the best thing is to keep asking them questions until they make it clear they really don’t know what they are talking about.

 

[CBH Australia]

Disregard the comments of others.
Hunting in South Africa is an industry. It creates employment, pays taxes and encourage s tourism.
No out fitter wastes the meat. Trackers etc get some of the meat and offal for use.
Staff cater to the visitors.
I hunted on a game reserve and all of the meat was ustilised and the outfitters often donate meat to schools etc.
Animals are not farmed or penned they are native animals that are managed as a resource.
I have not hunted America but it seems that hunting in every country is different and more accepted in some countries.
My only experience is Australia and once in South Africa. My reading suggests that America and New Zealand are also different to my experiences.
People don't underst the kangaroo industry. I have a bit of insight to that and pest issues from past employment. I ignore the crap and happy to discuss things with reasonable people.

 

[JimP]

If someone asks me about hunting in "Africa" I'll tell them what I know. If someone gives me that shooting penned up animals I just ask them if they have ever hunting there, 100% of them say that is just what they have heard.

A number of them I'll explain that most of the areas that we hunt are larger than some counties here in the states, and even with most being high fence I just tell them that you would never know it. And that the animals there are just as wild as any that we have here in the US, that is unless they are the ones that hang around the farm house looking for handouts.

As far a FB, I do have a account on it, and I posted a running update of my last hunt in South Africa. But then my pictures are only viewable to friends and family, no one else. One of my friends daughters saw my pictures and asked a lot of questions about the hunts. I explained to her what happens and that we can only bring back the "trophy" part of the animal. I explained to her what happened to all of the meat on my last hunt and that they actually use more of the animal than most hunters here in the US do. She was actually quite receptive of my explanation.

I did the same thing with friends on my first hunt 9 years ago.

I have had zero problems dispelling a lot of the myths that surround hunting in South Africa.

 

[Frederik]

Get a passport go and hunt Africa and make up your own mind.
No, hunting means no more wildlife.
Enough examples all over Africa where hunting has been stopped.

 

[CM McKenzie]

Hell, most deer in my home state ( Minnesota) are harvested out of 12' stands on private land, often out of heated blinds. Not to judge my fellow hunters, I do too.

Western US hunts aren't as remote as your average African hunt. I've done a bunch and know. "Get in the truck! We're going hunting!"

I've been on horseback hunts and waited by the Yellowstone line for the elk to come out. I rode horseback for 30 miles, but the elk knew to the foot where the boundary was. When they came out we shot them.

In Africa, the game was on many more acres and they were in the thick nasties..... I know they were fenced in, but so was the next ranch where they're getting hunted too. I liked it and will go back.

30 miles in elk country by the Yellowstone line…. You are describing hawks rest! That is my home country, and it is a special place to me. I would also say Africa is just as special. I have encountered those that make fun of the African side of things. I’ve decided it’s not worth my time or energy. It’s the same as arguing politics. I will enjoy Africa. Everything else is their loss.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The curse of the ignorant is not to want to know. Imagine what the rest of their life is like. Smile and wave,

 

[Scott CWO]

Being an outfitter, half the people love me and half hate me. Got to have thick skin and good facts ready. I NEVER back down. I just flatten them with facts to bury their wrong-headed emotions that they heard from some Hollywood type or anti-hunting group. I tell them hunting is very scientific now with license draws and quotas on animals. Same for quotas in Africa and I quickly tell them about all the anti-poaching patrols conducted by the outfitters, not the poor governments. Also tell them how Kenya outlawed hunting so that a poacher syndicate operated by the president’s wife could poach ivory without the outfitters and PHs in the field to witness it and how now the only wildlife in Kenya is in national parks. Then I ask them, “Can you imagine if the only wildlife left in the USA were in national parks?” That usually blows them away. I always educate and stand my ground.

 

[Desperatezulu]

As a (South) African living and hunting in Africa, we also get the 'anti' acquaintances.
I always try to engage politely. I have a 2 part spiel...

Part 1: While wild animals do die in the hunting process, my own focus is primarily meat harvesting (culling surprlus animals that are usually old or young animals and not the prime breeding members). Overgrazing, in-breeding and natural deaths are all realities of conserved animal populations. Particularly when there are few natural predators. And therefore need managed intervention to be sustained.
Q1: "Surely it makes sense for the owner of the animals to monetize them before they die of natural causes or get culled en masse?" Photo safaris are great but the financial contribution of them to the economy is small by comparison to consumptive hunting (virtually all of the financial contribution from photo safaris is in essence accommodation-based. Hunters also pay for accommodation AND they pay for the animals they hunt AND more jobs are created in the form of trackers and skinners and butchers and taxidermists, plus there is protein going into a hungry local populace)
Q2 (if there is obvious antagonism): "This is a blunt question but this wildlife that you're so passionate about - how much direct financial contribution do you make towards it? Per annum? Ever? Put a number on it! So why would anyone maintain a game reserve/preserve for you and people like you?"
That's usually brings things to an abrupt close.

Part 2: (If the resistance is starting to crumble... ) "A portion of my hunting activities are based on fund-raising auctioned hunts (there's annual church fund-raisers in a small, struggling rural communities where farmers donate hunts, plus a fair number of school fund-raisers where hunts are donated). So my hunting activity supports that community. Plus there are part time jobs for trackers, skinners etc as well as income resulting from my accommodation costs"
- surplus meat gets donated to a number of worthy causes: some local churches that have feeding programmes for people below the breadline, plus some childrens homes (orphanages). We sort out the butchering and ensure that clean, packaged meat is supplied, including things like venison burger patties, sosaties/kebabs, minced meat and meat for stewing.
- there are a huge number of low key game farms in marginal farming regions of SA & Nam. The carrying capacity is low, so game density is sparse and the harsh countryside & rudimentary accommodation don't lend themselves to photo safaris. Certainly not in the numbers that would make them financially sustainable. Hunters are the only real clients for those operations, as many hunters are quite content to rough it to a degree and enjoy very remote, rugged places - more so than the average wildlife photographer (I know I am generalizing a bit here).

 

[AimSmall]

Show them the photos of life in Africa, not just the trophies. Once people SEE the poverty, and the fact game meat is often the only source of protein for locals, the discussion changes. Photos of villagers lined up waiting for a few pounds of cape buffalo usually does it.

 

[R.M.C.]

I particularly like your comment about wasting meat. I’ve seen so many people in Pennsylvania take 10 trips to Colorado to finally get one elk but two years later they are still trying to give away the meat in their freezer. I’ve seen a lot of meat go to waste in Pennsylvania but not Africa.

Right!! I don't know where the misconception came from but I've had three or four people ask me if we just take the hide and skull and leave the rest to rot. Letting the meat rot on their biyearly elk hunt would be unthinkable ( if the hunt produced any meat) but they really think ph's in Africa just " let them lay". Ridiculous. And this is coming from guys who've hunted all their lives.

 

[Nyati]

People asking those questions are both jealous and ignorant.

My standard reply is, "have you hunted in SA ?"

No, then, what do you really want to know ?

 

[Sue Tidwell]

Most folks I talk to are simply uneducated or ignorant to any hunting outside of their immediate world.

I generally break them down into three groups...

The first group are the "if I cant eat it (bring the meat home) I am not going to hunt it." or "I am a meat hunter, I don't hunt just for sport" group. These are usually the same people that will spend a week every year at "deer camp" with the same people and never kill anything. IMO this group tends to be more set in their ways, smaller thinking, and require a basic discussion about wildlife conservation.

The second group see hunting in Africa (or abroad) as extravagant. i.e my dad and many from his generation got their education from reading about Teddy Roosevelt and the year long, full bag safaris with animals that are now on display in the Smithsonian. "It's all for the rich and famous" and the "it must be nice" comments usually fall into this group.
These people are usually easy to talk to and will understand the basic economics of conservation and how the safari industry has evolved over the years. They usually will understand basic wildlife conservation when it's explained in ways they understand. They usually require the group 1 discussions as they progress.

The last group is the anti's. "I don't understand why we cant just leave all the animals alone" or "Why do you have to kill these animals" These are the folks that truly do not get wildlife conservation and usually don't want to understand it. Most are hopeless just because they don't want to hear it. Some can be educated, but usually require a lot of effort just to get them moved into group 2 or group 1.

The only way folks will learn is if we educated them. One at a time... It's a bi.ch. But it can be done.

@Sue Tidwell book is an excellent resource and I frequently recommend it to folks that I have these discussions with.

Cries of the Savanna: An adventure. An awakening. A journey to understanding African wildlife conservation.: Tidwell, Sue: 9781737903925: Amazon.com: Books

Buy Cries of the Savanna: An adventure. An awakening. A journey to understanding African wildlife conservation. on Amazon.com ✓ FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders

www.amazon.com

@Mekaniks, it was so wonderful to see that you recommend Cries of the Savanna to those who want to understand hunting in Africa...and how to make arguments for it. That is exactly why I wrote the book. You made my day! Also, your observations above are spot on in my opinion. There are definitely different camps, so to speak in the African hunting debate. Luckily, we can change the minds of even those in the last group...if they are at least a bit open to understanding. It is a "bi.ch" as you say but you are right, we have to keep trying and it can be done. I've had quite a few read my book and come away with an entirely different perspective. Still, there are some we will NEVER get. I just got a two star review that essentially called me a liar and said that my husband was creepy for wanting to kill animals. Weirdly enough, however, they admitted that they now see hunting differently in Africa and understand why it is necessary....but they still dislike hunters etc. So, even though it is a bit hurtful to be called a liar and my husband ...and all hunters....creepy, the book more or less did the job that I intended.

 

[Sue Tidwell]

Hello friends.

I am a very low key guy. I live on my farm and keep to myself for the most part. I hunt a lot. Have a few elk, deer, pronghorn and a caribou on the wall. I'm not a big score keeper, I just enjoy seeing memories of my hunt.

My closest town is under 1.000 people. I went to coffee the other day and someone said " I heard you went to AFRIACA" "Must be nice!!!".

I didn't respond. Then the next guy says " Did you let them get out of the pen before you shot them?!.

I just left. I didn't want to explain to them that hunting in Africa isn't all that much different than hunting private land in the US or Canada. I've been on private land Elk, Antelope and Mule deer hunts in the US. Africa was harder, much harder. Thorns, brush, low visibility, much, much more wary game.

Hell the easiest hunts I've had have been in the US on private land or next to federal land (next to Jackson Hole WY) The moose and caribou I have hunted weren't near as weary as ANY animal I hunted in Africa.

I like my fellow hunters very much, but how do you respond when someone tells you Africa isn't a real "hunt" ? Not that it matters to me, but I'm interested if anyone else has faced the same judgement.

I don't need to defend myself from these fellow hunters. Just interested if anyone else has been judged for hunting in Africa and how do you handle them? GTH is my current response.

Believe me, I know that this is so frustrating. I work hard everyday at helping people understand...and I'm not even a hunter. I just am passionate about the importance of well-managed hunting in Africa for its people...and ultimately the wildlife itself. I have found that if you are able to really talk one on one to people and put it in terms that they can relate to, it is much easier to get your point across. For instance, ask them how they would like their kids going to school with lions lurking about? If they were impoverished, What would make them less likely to poison the lion just to make life easier. What would make them work harder to live with wild creatures. Also, I often relate the habitat preservation to this. If you had a large chunk of land in America and were impoverished, the land would have to work for you. The land would have to essentially pay for itself. You would have it in crops, pastures, etc. BUT, if you could keep the habitat natural and sell a few elk hunts each year to earn your money....with little effort....you would do that. It is the same in Africa. The land has to be more valuable in its natural state....and that is what hunting does. Also, of course explain that NO meat in Africa goes to waste! And, in my opinion, it is WAY more rewarding to provide for a people who are meat deprived than to put it in my own freezer. Anyway, I hope this helps....and PLEASE don't give up trying to help people understand. It is so important for Africa! Sue Tidwell

 

[Sue Tidwell]

I've had similar experiences from "domestic" hunters and even from employees of the provincial department of Fish and Game in Alberta when she made the comment that "Oh, you're one of those hunters!" I was in there office to apply for my land owners Mule Deer tag as I was skunked on all my draw applications.
To which I told her, sit down and listen for a couple of minutes and you might learn something.
I pointed out to her that I had hunted in Africa (Namibia) for 10 days accompanied by my wife.

Scenario Africa
That all meals and accommodations were included, hospitality was phenomenal.
Eight PG animals were taken, 2 Kudu, 2 warthogs, Blue Widebeest, Red Hartebeest, Impala. All taken in low fence concessions spot and stalk.
Myself and my hunting partner were the only 2 hunters on the concession, area of over 50,000 acres.
The hunt was followed by a 20 day guided tour for the four of us (hunters and wives) through Namibia (Namibi desert, Swapomund, Damaraland, Etosho Park, Caprivi (sleeping on a houseboat in the Popo River with the hippos all about), traveling through Botswana (Chobe National Park) and ending in Victoria Falls (it makes Niagara look like a leaky faucet).
Flights were Calgary to Heathrowe, Johannesburg, Windhoek and return Victoria Falls, Johannesburg, Heathrowe, Calgary.
All in it cost for myself and wife for approx 30 days including all meals, accommodations, beverages, and airfare and the experience of a lifetime, 22K Can, probably 18K USD. And we got to see a fantastic, beautiful and mesmerizing part of the world and had a chance to meet some truly fascinating people. Not just a hunt but a vacation as well.

Scenario at Home
So consider hunting domestically assuming that you do get drawn for a tag,
Application fee, $8.00 per application, regardless of the number of applications. Then if you do get drawn it"s another $30.00. But you may not get drawn for up to 12 years depending on you preferred draw zone.

Getting into confrontations with trespassers on your own property, (A far to common problem, even on your own deeded land).
Priceless and maybe dangerous.

Now for 30 days for two people at 3 meals per day at $30.00 each. $1800.00

Driving your $50,000 F150, Ram or Silverado at $150.00 per day for 30 days. $4500.00

Taking time off from work, even if self employed.
Variable.

Beverages?
Again Variable.

Having to abandon the hunt to address issues at home (can't do that when you're 7000 miles from home)
Variable

And this is the big one.
Chance of finding and harvesting a good whitetail, mule deer, moose or elk with all the completion from other hunters either with permission or not. 0-2%.
I can't define the hunt at home as a real hunt

After my lecture to the employee in question, and I should say that some of her coworkers joined her to listen, she did admit that she had no idea about the case for hunting Africa and she apologized for her snobby remark.

Ignorance is bliss and there are some very blissful people out there.

@Neil Molendyk, I love that you took the time to educate this person....and others in the office! Truly, I have found people have a totally different opinion once the reality of africa is actually explained to them. I also loved the analogy that you used. I ever put it in that way. Well done!

 

[Hank2211]

I too agree with @Mekaniks. I've found it's worth taking a few minutes when I meet people like this and asking a few polite questions, and you pretty quickly get a feel for what type of person you're dealing with. There's no point in getting into a discussion with anti-hunters, but for many, it's an opportunity for some education and maybe even making a convert. And I love to talk about my hunting experiences, so they may in fact regret getting me started . . .

With all due respect, I don't agree with @Slider. I've hunted much of what I assume he would call 'wild Africa" - and I can say that there are lots of places in South Africa which are big enough to be called wild, even if they are fenced. But regardless, there are unfenced areas which are huntable in South Africa, so by any definition, even a wrong one, the statement doesn't 'hunt.'(!)