Double rifle in .405 Winchester

[Rick Hill]

HWL,
I recently had my .405 double re-regulated to shoot Hornady factory 300 grain ammo at 2225 fps and it came out fine. Four shots in an inch square at 50 yards. Regulation target :


I have since adjusted my scope to put that group dead center at 50 yards.

You should be able to have good regulation with 300 grain loads at 2225 fps and 400 grain Woodleighs at 2025 -2060 and if you want to shoot lighter bullets , the Hornady .41 mag pistol bullets are accurate though I have not yet tried to tinker with them to get a one inch group.

Wow - that is nice. Two barrels that shoot like a bolt gun. What was done to the rifle?

Rick

 

[crs]

Rick,
The original gun maker made the rifle for himself and he regulated it with Hornady 300 grain bullets at 2100 fps, and since he planned to hunt with the scope attached using the right barrel, it was OK with him if the left barrel was not "on" and he was busy making guns to sell so he never got back to his to finish the regulation.
I came across this rifle when I was looking for a .405 double and the maker sold me the whole kit, iccluding scope fitted to the rifle.
After some range time, I shot a hog with the express sight - with the .405, second shots are not usually needed.
My only problem with the gun was the regulation so I had Aaron regulate it .

 

[Rifle57]

Made by Jules Bury in 1930; short LOP, light (just under 7 lbs) and barrel heavy which insured survival in pristine condition. Now with a leather covered recoil pad for my LOP and a little over a pound of Tungsten in the butt stock for perfect balance and recoil moderation we are friends for life.

Rick

View attachment 185683

That is a very nice rifle you have there Rick.

 

[HWL]

Made by Jules Bury in 1930; short LOP, light (just under 7 lbs) and barrel heavy which insured survival in pristine condition. Now with a leather covered recoil pad for my LOP and a little over a pound of Tungsten in the butt stock for perfect balance and recoil moderation we are friends for life.

Rick

View attachment 185683

...beautifully....

HWL

 

[crs]

Addition/correction to loading info above; quote follows:
"Note- when I switched to Federal Large Rifle Match Primers, it added 20 fps to my 400 grain loads."

The top velocity was from switching from Federal GM210M to GM215M - the large rifle MAGNUM match primer.
The .405 400 grain project began with CCI primers, but changed to Federal based on advice from ammo industry folks. Then it evolved to the gm215m with experience.

I also use the gm215m on heavy .45-90 loads .

 

[crs]

HWL,
Here is a link to some .405 load data - the Rifle/Handloader Site:
https://www.loaddata.com/MetallicSearchResults

Note data from multiple manuals and sources.

Enjoy!

 

[HWL]

HWL,
Here is a link to some .405 load data - the Rifle/Handloader Site:
https://www.loaddata.com/MetallicSearchResults

Note data from multiple manuals and sources.

Enjoy!

Thank you very much.... unfortunately, the link does not work.

I followed your advice and found data in the Hodgdon Manual.

The rifle is back from stock restauration and goes to my gunsmith to regulate the barrels.


HWL

 

[crs]

Sorry for the bad link. This one should take youi to the main page of Loaddata.com :
https://www.loaddata.com/
From there, you can key in the caliber upon which you wish to search.

 

[AZDAVE]

Rick I think you will enjoy your new rifle. 405 WIN is a great round. I also have a Simson 405 that was made between the wars and it shoots great. I have worked up loads with Hornaday, Woodleigh, Hawk softs, and Northfork solids. I will make the same recommendation (If you don't already have it) buy Graeme Wright's Shooting the british double rifle. Read it cover to cover 4 or 5 times and then wade into load development and see what your rifle really likes to shoot with. I recently took my 405 on a spring bear hunt but the closest I was able to get was 245yards and while I shoot iron sights well that was a TAD g for a double. I now have to decide on the 405 or 450/400 for next years safari. Good luck with your rifle.

 

[crs]

Hello Dave.
I wondered when you would spot this thread. Thanks for joining in.
BTW, We have an exotic hunt down at Hondo booked for next weekend. Plan to use my .405 double and take .405 1895 as backup.

 

[AZDAVE]

@crs Have been super busy and on the road a bit so just seeing this.
Have some family down close to Hondo, there are some really nice ranches in the area, enjoy your hunt!!! What's on your wish list?
@HWL
I can share some of the load data if you need it as a starting point. With doubles everyone is a bit different in what they will shoot well
they journey on getting doubles to shoot well is fun and frustrating at the same time.

 

[crs]

Maybe a Nilgai or elk cow, half grown water buffalo (800 pounds) , hogs, etc.
Double purpose hunt: kill something edible with .405 double and bring meat back to neighborhood game processor.
+ a hunt with son and my best hunting buddy coming up to Hondo from Rockport.
Also try a good BBQ joint I Hondo.

Thank you for your offer of load data for .405 double; my situation and plan are as follows:
I have standardized my .405, .45-70, and .45-90 loading on VV N133 or, if needed for heavy for caliber bullets, N530 powder, Fed large rifle magnum match Primers (No.GM215M), and a 24 inch drop tube.

Individual 100 yard tests show that each barrel of the double is capable of sub MOA accuracy with 300 and 400 grain hand loads and with factory Hornady 300 grain .411 bullets. The re-regulation target shows that the rifle is capable of sub MOA two and four shot groups with factory Hornady 300 grain ammo. My standard 300 grain .405 hand loads are 2225 - 2250 fps and shoot to the same point of aim as factory Hornady at 2225 fps. Therefore, double rifle ammo will be interchangeable with Winchester 1895 .405 ammo.

At this time, I see no need for "hot rod" 300 grain loads at 2350-2400 fps. Also no need for 400 grain loads above 2100 fps (current MV high is 2076 fps ) I will tweak 400 grain loads up from current 2020 fps (one inch group) up as far as 2100 or until accuracy degrades.
This is a good base upon which to build.

Based upon the above information, what are your comments or suggestions?

 

[AZDAVE]

@crs the offer for load data was more geared for HWL. Yours looks like it is dialed to about perfection!!! I wouldn't mess with your loads at all.

Mine shoots hornaday factory into 2 -2 1/2 in at 50 off sticks with irons. My best loads are with hawk and woodleigh. Both are sub 2 in and open up to around 3-4in at 100. I am sure it would shoot tighter than that but that is the best I can do with sticks and irons. So the limitation is the loose nut behind the stock Not the rifle, The solids shoot about the same as factory. It will make a great anything in North America, plains game and cats double. The SD on 300gr just isn't high enough for my comfort on Buff. But that is why I have the 450/400.

Time spent with family hunting is priceless! That BBQ joint in Hondo is really GOOD. My great Aunt lived in the Fulton/Rockport area, I use to love going to visit when I was a young man.

I think we need to invite @HWL to Texas for a hog hunt and have 3 405 double in one place at the same time?

 

[crs]

To all those wondering about why their double rifle does not regulate with Hornady or Kynoch ammo at 2225 and 2220 fps:
You made me curious and I did some research and confirmed that the original Winchester .405 WCF 300 grain ammo velocity from the 24 inch barrel was 2200 fps; see page 142 of Cartridges of the World, 11th edition.

So this means that the persons who regulated doubles at velocities other than 2200 fps did it for reasons such as barrel length, recoil reduction, use of rifle scope, ignorance, or other reasons unknown to us.
It also means that if you want to shoot factory ammo or hand loads at factory velocities, your rifle must have your double re-regulated.

 

[crs]

I think we need to invite @HWL to Texas for a hog hunt and have 3 405 double in one place at the same time?

Invite HWL and Rick, who also has a .405 double = four .405 doubles! Would be fun - we could do Okie hogs with dogs (nothing under 300 pounds and remember the 600 pounder I shot this year), Action Outdoor Adventures at Hondo, and some other places and have a blast. Good company, good shooting, good food and great stories!

 

[HWL]

I also have a Simson 405 that was made between the wars and it shoots great.

We need pictures,...so badly!!



HWL

 

[HWL]

Invite HWL and Rick, who also has a .405 double = four .405 doubles! Would be fun - we could do Okie hogs with dogs

I would not hesitate...

HWL

 

[crs]

Dave, WRT accuracy of Winnie 1895 .405, you said lack of a one hole group was "not the rifle" and I agree.

From a bench rest, I have shot two with scopes, one with receiver sights, and one with open barrel sights and have concluded that the cartridge and rifle are very accurate and performance on targets and in the field are only limited by the circumstances and the shooter.
I reckon the same can be said of a .405 double rifle assuming it has been properly regulated, as shown by the regulation group of my .405 double shot by Aaron Little.

 

[AZDAVE]

@HWL here are a couple pictures I was able to locate.

 

[crs]

Do I see similarities to a Merkel DR there?