Double rifle in .405 Winchester

Discussion in 'Double Rifles' started by HWL, May 13, 2017.

  1. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    Found in a friends gun rack....

    Made in Belgium, heavily used condition, barrels ok, bad regulated, ..... cheap and with a good core.... a construction site!

    Is this cartridge good for anything in Africa?

    HWL

    DSC01459.JPG
     

  2. bilmcc

    bilmcc AH Enthusiast

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    Teddy Roosevelt thought it was a capital cartridge for lions.
     
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  3. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    YES AND i HAVE DONE IT WITH 300 AND 400 GRAIN BULLETS.
    I have taken cape buff with 400 grain Woodies and water buff,, Nilgai, etc.with 300 grain North forks with my Winchester 1895. I also have a Simson Suhl .405 double rifle that has yet to go to Africa.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    If tou can get that double at a good price, jump on it. Let me know if you do and I can provide some load info when you need it.
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2017

  4. CAustin

    CAustin AH ENABLER BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Ambassador

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    Yes the President loaded a ship basically with all the animals he shot with it. It's a classic round that receives very little attention anymore.
    @HWL is the rifle something you are going to add to your collection?
     

  5. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    Hi crs, thank you for your posting.

    I already did...!

    ..... with RCBS die set and 150 cases and 5 rounds Kynoch ammo.

    But the barrels definately had to be regulated...

    HWL
     
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  6. BenH2016

    BenH2016 AH Veteran

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    I know nothing about the caliber but that rifle as a great look to it.
     

  7. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    HWL,
    I recently had my .405 double re-regulated to shoot Hornady factory 300 grain ammo at 2225 fps and it came out fine. Four shots in an inch square at 50 yards. Regulation target :
    [​IMG]

    I have since adjusted my scope to put that group dead center at 50 yards.

    You should be able to have good regulation with 300 grain loads at 2225 fps and 400 grain Woodleighs at 2025 -2060 and if you want to shoot lighter bullets , the Hornady .41 mag pistol bullets are accurate though I have not yet tried to tinker with them to get a one inch group.
     

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  8. Rifle57

    Rifle57 AH Member

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    I have a Win 1885 high wall 405 win with 24'' barrel and it kick's like hell on both ends!!
     

  9. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    Yes, good cartridge! North Fork makes an excellent .411 bonded soft point and Cutting Edge makes an excellent .411 FP solid- both perfect for a double rifle in 405 Win.
     

  10. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    Yes, some excellent 300 grain bullets are available in addition to the NF(which I use)
    you mentioned. Barnes, Hornady, Woodleigh, and many lesser brands for instance.

    I have had good accuracy and effectiveness with the 400 grain .411 Woodleigh Weldcore and FMJ in my 1895 and they also show promise for my double rifle.
     
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  11. fourfive8

    fourfive8 AH Fanatic

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    Yes, one advantage of the double rifle over the Win 95 is the non-critical COAL (related directly to nose length). The double opens up the possibility of using the longer nosed and/or heavier bullets.
     

  12. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    Agreed and setting the bullet forward makes room for more powder, requiring less compression.
     

  13. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    Have you ever tried the 300 gr Barnes?

    HWL
     

  14. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    Yes and they as accurate as the NF, Hornady, and Woodleigh bullets. Her is a feral hog taken with Barnes TSX - naturally, any 300 grain bullet in the back of the head at 20 yards will do the job:
    [​IMG]
     

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  15. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    And since this thread is about .405 double rifles, here is a boar shot with my double while "treed" by chase dogs.
    [​IMG]
     

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  16. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    I have a Belgian 405 win and would love any info you have on loads. The 300 gr Hornadys at 2200 fps do not regulate well. Perhaps this round was ment to regulate at lower velocities?

    Rick
     

  17. HWL

    HWL AH Fanatic

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    Who built it..... and PIC PLEASE!!!

    ...and there are reloading data in the Barnes, Hornady and Woodleigh - Reloading Manuals


    HWL
     

  18. crs

    crs AH Fanatic

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    To Rick and HWL:
    I have been shooting and reloading the .405 for my 1895 Winchester for a few years and have searched the internet. several loading manuals, and other sources for useable data(more on that later). The Hornady factory ammo worked fine on hogs and deer sized game, but not so well on larger game with big bones such as a Nilgai shoulder shot that did not shoot through. I immediately went to VV N133 powder and North Fork bullets for tough game and DG. When testing the first batch of hand loads, I saw that at the same Hornady published velocity (2225 on the ammo box) my loads were accurate and hit the same point of aim as the Hornady, allowing the same sight setting, so I stopped there - 2225 -2250 fps. Some 1895 hand loaders have taken the 300 grain bullets up to 2350-2400 fps and in the Ruger number 1, they go somewhat higher.

    I acquired my .405 double December 2015 and have found that the 1895 loads work well in it too. After some careful shooting, I learned that each barrel shot minute of angle, but NOT into the same group. :( Therefore I had gun maker Aaron Little regulate the double for me using factory Hornady 300 grain ammo(same base as my 1895 .405 for which I have a lot of data and ammo).

    WRT load data in addition

    WRT your Belgian doubles; since they were made last century, the ammo velocity may have been at or below the 2200 fps of the original Winchester 1895. Or your guns may never been regulated to shoot tight groups. Whatever the case, I can see two options:
    1. Play with 300 grain loads above and below 2200 fps to try to find a velocity that does regulate to your satisfaction or
    2. Have Aaron regulate the doubles to your specs ( I recommend sticking with the Hornady velocity) . Remember the old saying that "only accurate rifles are interesting" ? Regulation may cost several hundred dollars, but it made all the difference in my case.

    BTW, the same 400 grain loads that shoot well in my 1895 also shoot minute of angle from each barrel of my double at 2029 fps (entry level of accuracy on 1895 too) and I plan to test more loads up to 2070 fps in my double. Now that the barrels are regulated to the 300 grain ammo, I am optimistic that I can find a 400 grain velocity that will regulate.

    WRT load data in addition to those listed above by HWL, there are manuals by Hogdon, Ken Waters, Sharpe as well as lots of Load data on the Internet. I began using N133 for most of my loading after I learned that it typically produces 10K-12K psi less peak pressure than many other options; it also meters and compresses almost as well as ball powder. I like the Hornady manual because they have .405 loads using N133 as well as other powders.
    Note- when I switched to Federal Large Rifle Match Primers, it added 20 fps to my 400 grain loads. This put my top 400 grain velocity well above the Hornady 2050 fps for their 450/400 ammo. :)

    Rick, I second the request for pix and more info on your Belgium double.
     

  19. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    Made by Jules Bury in 1930; short LOP, light (just under 7 lbs) and barrel heavy which insured survival in pristine condition. Now with a leather covered recoil pad for my LOP and a little over a pound of Tungsten in the butt stock for perfect balance and recoil moderation we are friends for life.

    Rick

    christophe-405-right.jpg
     
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  20. Rick Hill

    Rick Hill AH Senior Member

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    See above - I have a couple of double that shoot best at around 2100 fps so I wonder it this was some sort of standard for the first part of the century?

    Rick
     

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