COVID vaccination required by Safari Company or not, your suggestion

machinistbutler

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As I have stated many times, as a Safari operator we do not require that visiting hunters be vaccinated for Covid 19. We do not require that are employees are vaccinated, but all of our employees were gladly vaccinated (2 jabs).

I know people feel strongly on this subject, but I never had any idea how strongly for or against.

We also do not require that visiting hunters take a malaria medication, the choice is yours.
Do you recommend the malaria meds? I haven't been to an area with malaria present , yet, but hope to in the future.
 

Rimshot

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I appreciate the statistical link on US causes of death you provided. The only problem with your theory here is that in all of these cases I have mentioned, the primary cause of death is STILL being reported as heart disease, pneumonia, trauma, etc.,. For example, a death resulting from an acute MI is being recorded as heart disease as the primary cause of death, yet if the patient was also Covid-positive, it is doubly counted by the CDC as a "Covid death". That's why your are seeing consistency in the numbers.

Reported US deaths by cause

Please help me understand exactly what you think is going on. I think you are saying that from 2015 to 2019, each 1 death was recorded with 1 cause, and in 2020 they counted the death twice if the person had covid and heart disease, thus inflating the total number of deaths? If so, this should be very easy to verify and catch, since virtually all deaths go accounted for in the USA.

Approximately how many deaths do you think they inflated the numbers by?

There only only two possibilities if the CDC is lying about Covid deaths:

1. they recorded another death (cancer, heart disease, accident, etc.) as a covid death, thus subtracting that death from what a historical average would be compared to prior years, which would show up by comparing it to prior years easily because of the high numbers.

2. they double counted the death, leaving the (heart disease, et. al.) number in place, and adding a covid death, thus inflating the actual number of dead bodies accounted for (i.e. phantom dead people that don't exist). This should also be easy to verify.

If there is no evidence to show that either of those possibilities is true, then claims of conspiracy can be dismissed.

Look, I certainly don't trust the CDC, FDA, or lying politicians. But without actual evidence, saying the numbers are false because of what is recorded on a form isn't proof of anything other than everyone is tested for Covid.
 

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Potro

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I would.
Even if the vaccine does not garantee 100% that you will not get sick, It helps a lot to reduce the critically of the COVID and also protec others. Just my 2 cents
 

firehuntfish

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Please help me understand exactly what you think is going on. I think you are saying that from 2015 to 2019, each 1 death was recorded with 1 cause, and in 2020 they counted the death twice if the person had covid and heart disease, thus inflating the total number of deaths? If so, this should be very easy to verify and catch, since virtually all deaths go accounted for in the USA.

My apologies for not being more clear in what I was trying to state earlier. I did not mean to say that the death is being counted twice. The actual causes of death are being miscategorized. The CDC uses the NCHS data and re-represents it according to their own specific set of criteria for Covid.

They are using the HCHS numbers from the cause of death forms the CDC provides them, but the CDC has been cherry picking inclusion criteria from that data. They have been counting any cause of death as a Covid death where a Covid positive result was present regardless of the primary cause of death. It falls under their definition of "provisional deaths" which are estimated numbers subject to change...

Interestingly, I just discovered that the CDC revised their criteria for recording Covid deaths as of today September 17, 2021. The words "Covid positive" has mysteriously has been eliminated from the criteria.

COVID-19 deaths are identified using a new ICD–10 code. When COVID-19 is reported as a cause of death – or when it is listed as a “probable” or “presumed” cause — the death is coded as U07.1. This can include cases with or without laboratory confirmation.

2. they double counted the death, leaving the (heart disease, et. al.) number in place, and adding a covid death, thus inflating the actual number of dead bodies accounted for (i.e. phantom dead people that don't exist). This should also be easy to verify.

They are not adding to the numbers. They are misrepresting the same numbers. For example, a death that was actually caused by an acute MI should have been listed under the category of heart disease, but, because the patient was Covid positive within 60 days of death, it was likely counted as a Covid death by the CDC... Even at a 30% rate of misrepresentation, it's not a stretch by any means to "borrow" 100,00 deaths from 10 other leading causes of death in the US and not raise any red flags due to a spike or deficit of unexplained deaths in any particular category.

Look, I certainly don't trust the CDC, FDA, or lying politicians. But without actual evidence, saying the numbers are false because of what is recorded on a form isn't proof of anything other than everyone is tested for Covid.

Other than the first-hand knowledge of what I know for certain is being reported on these cause of death forms, and the acknowledgement from the CDC's own website stating that they actually do count deaths where Covid is not necessarily the primary, contributory, or underlying cause of death, I honestly don't know what else to say about it. I'm not trying to prove anything. I only want raise aware of how the CDC is misrepresenting the numbers. If you want to give the CDC the benefit of the doubt over my lack of proof, that is absolutely your prerogative.

I can't find the actual CDC video released about a year ago where they openly admit how they qualify Covid deaths. I assume they pulled it... I did find this video which is basically the same message conveyed by the Maricopa County Arizona Heath Department explaining the guidance they were following per the CDC guidelines. The relevant part comes in around the 30 second mark.

 
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Rimshot

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My apologies for not being more clear in what I was trying to state earlier. I did not mean to say that the death is being counted twice. The actual causes of death are being miscategorized. The CDC uses the NCHS data and re-represents it according to their own specific set of criteria for Covid.

Got it. I hate being in the position of defending the CDC. I have no doubt that on an individual basis, some death got recorded incorrectly somewhere, because we're dealing with incompetent bureaucrats. On a large scale though, 100,000 deaths would stand out like a sore thumb in the reported numbers. There are over 500,000 extra deaths in 2020 vs 2019...where were the COVID deaths 'borrowed' from? If they were being borrowed, we'd expect the number of deaths to tick up slightly due to patients delaying care and elective surgery postponed, but not by 500,000 people, or even 100,000 people. The numbers would be similar to 2019, but deaths are up almost 20% from 2019 to 2020. From 2017 to 2018, and 2018 to 2019, they go up by about 1%. It seems highly improbable that all other categories of mortality increased by even a fraction of that 20% increase and were funneled into the COVID category.

As far as borrowing/lying about covid death numbers, the CDC could have easily borrowed another 200,000 deaths from the top 10 causes and inflated the covid numbers even more, if this was their goal, without raising any eyebrows. The numbers would align with 2019. Why didn't they?

I also have a hard time understanding what the CDC or government have to gain from lying about or inflating the numbers, they are bad either way. We've seen plenty of lying from politicians and the bloated bureaucracies we're saddled with, but usually their motivations are transparent.
 

BSO Dave

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Got it. I hate being in the position of defending the CDC. I have no doubt that on an individual basis, some death got recorded incorrectly somewhere, because we're dealing with incompetent bureaucrats. On a large scale though, 100,000 deaths would stand out like a sore thumb in the reported numbers. There are over 500,000 extra deaths in 2020 vs 2019...where were the COVID deaths 'borrowed' from? If they were being borrowed, we'd expect the number of deaths to tick up slightly due to patients delaying care and elective surgery postponed, but not by 500,000 people, or even 100,000 people. The numbers would be similar to 2019, but deaths are up almost 20% from 2019 to 2020. From 2017 to 2018, and 2018 to 2019, they go up by about 1%. It seems highly improbable that all other categories of mortality increased by even a fraction of that 20% increase and were funneled into the COVID category.

As far as borrowing/lying about covid death numbers, the CDC could have easily borrowed another 200,000 deaths from the top 10 causes and inflated the covid numbers even more, if this was their goal, without raising any eyebrows. The numbers would align with 2019. Why didn't they?

I also have a hard time understanding what the CDC or government have to gain from lying about or inflating the numbers, they are bad either way. We've seen plenty of lying from politicians and the bloated bureaucracies we're saddled with, but usually their motivations are transparent

You do realize that what FHF is asserting in regard to the CDC and it's accounting of covid deaths is not news? He is not introducing any new conspiracy theories here. Especially in the first few months of the pandemic, the CDC was surprisingly open and brazen in their admission of what constitutes a covid-19 death according to their interpretation. Yet, surprisingly the media on both sides could seem to care less about it.

It's also been well documented that the "gold standard" covid test used in the first half of the pandemic could not definitively differentiate between the various covid viruses which would explain how the flu miraculously disappeared for the last 18 months. In 2019, the CDC recorded 60K deaths attributed to the flu. What do you suppose happened to the flu for 2020/21? 500K+ covid deaths but hardly any deaths from the flu according to the CDC? Really?

Are you being serious when you ask what their motivation to fudge the numbers would be?? How about compliance through fear? How about pressure to hype the propaganda and hysteria for a political agenda of the party that funds them? Sorry friend, but the CDC (Center for Disinformation and Confusion) has destroyed their credibility as an impartial, non-biased health organization on every level. They can no longer be trusted or taken seriously.

This is the same CDC that just got caught blatantly inflating Florida's covid numbers to coincide with Gov. DeSantis' confrontation with Biden over mandates. Coincidence? Honest mistake? BS! They are a nothing more than another ministry of prooganda for this Administration.
 
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Jota Efe

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I provisionally booked for gonarezhou NP for next year (vacation ) ; the news we got is that zimbabwe requires travellers to enter the country to be vaccinated ; I do not plan to have the jab at all ; also I have caught covid and treated it successfully ; it was a bad bout and i used self medicated ivermectin and doxyl tabs then complemented with doctor's prescription for cortisone , antibiotics and anticoagulants and ionic silver potion nebulizer ; taking still vit D3 , zinc and Vit C as supplements ; I should be immune or hopefully my innate immune system should remember to fight sars cov2 virus if i get reinfected ; I go along with pcr /rt testing ( although i don't believe in their level of confidence ) to get the "paper work" for the land/airport borders ( like i had to do for botswana in feb/march this year ) but vaccination will mean the cancellation of my trip to zim in 2022 ; Gonarezhou NP have advised that they will let me know and confirm border covid requirements nearer the time of my trip ; march 2022 is due date for payment of accomodation fees .....remains to be seen ....
 

Hogpatrol

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I provisionally booked for gonarezhou NP for next year (vacation ) ; the news we got is that zimbabwe requires travellers to enter the country to be vaccinated ; I do not plan to have the jab at all ; also I have caught covid and treated it successfully ; it was a bad bout and i used self medicated ivermectin and doxyl tabs then complemented with doctor's prescription for cortisone , antibiotics and anticoagulants and ionic silver potion nebulizer ; taking still vit D3 , zinc and Vit C as supplements ; I should be immune or hopefully my innate immune system should remember to fight sars cov2 virus if i get reinfected ; I go along with pcr /rt testing ( although i don't believe in their level of confidence ) to get the "paper work" for the land/airport borders ( like i had to do for botswana in feb/march this year ) but vaccination will mean the cancellation of my trip to zim in 2022 ; Gonarezhou NP have advised that they will let me know and confirm border covid requirements nearer the time of my trip ; march 2022 is due date for payment of accomodation fees .....remains to be seen ....
Wouldn't cancel yet, requirements could change by next year.
 

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I believe that the vaccine question is an important personal decision. I chose to get vaccinated for personal reasons but that being said I would not hunt with any company that required clients to get vaccinated. I am so tired of the shaming and backing people into a corner over this. It has gotten completely out of hand. I know people who have gotten very very sick with Covid, to the point they literally almost died. My wife and daughter caught COVID. My wife had a pretty rough time with it and my daughter never really got that sick. But…… I flat out refuse to do business with anyone that “requires” a vaccination, even though I am. I will not do business or associate with people that involve themselves in shaming others over it either. Nor will I do any business with businesses that require masks. What a load of shit that is. This disease has a 99.6.% survival rate. That is way higher than most other pandemic Illnesses. Too many people have drank the koolaide on this and are enabling the worlds governments to straight up violate human rights over it. This is about power and nothing more. Not to mention the vaccines are not near as effective as made out to be. Vaccinated people still get sick and die. There is a big case over it now here in the states. Quite frankly I’m sick and damn tired of all this crap.
I can certainly understand wanting to take precautions but requiring people to do something to their body so that someone else has peace of mind is appalling and selfish. There are people that have died from the vaccines. I can see where in the not to distant future where someone somewhere is going to require another to get vaccinated as policy and that person dies from the vaccine. I can guarantee that there will be a hellava law suite over it as well there should be.
I am not anti vaccine as a whole. Lord knows I’ve been vaccinated for all kinds of crap due to traveled I’ve been on. I got the Pfizer Covid vaccine for this and take my last shot on the 29th so I fall into the “fully vaccinated” category. The only reason I did so is because of the large amount of time I have spent in the hospital in the last year due to health issues. I figured that it would be wise as hospitals are a great place to catch all kinds of shit. Hell I caught staff one time due to a surgery.
The truth is these vaccines are pretty damn ineffective. Study after study has shown this. People are still getting sick and dying from the VID even though they have been vaccinated.
As an outfitter myself I would never require people to be vaccinated. It is not my right to do so and I feel that is a very unreasonable thing to ask of clients. I understand those who have gotten very ill are scared. I’ve been scared as I’ve been exposed numerous times and have seen how sick friends and family have gotten over it. You have to ask yourself though if you are willing to loose the business from people who refuse the vaccines, as is their right to do so. If you can great, odds are you can’t. I don’t feel I’m alone in the feeling of refusing to do business with someone who has this requirement. I believe it is a very unreasonable request and would cost you dearly in the long run due to loss of business. Now if countries start requiring it for international travel then problem solved as anyone coming in will have to be vaccinated anyway. Unless that happens id leave it as a personal choice for clients. Besides, if the vaccine works (I really don’t believe it does) then why worry about it. You should be covered right?
 

Muskox

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Been vaccinated twice (Moderna) and had Covid 19 twice.

Just getting over the last bout.

We use a Vitamin D light by a company named Sperti. 3 minutes every other day pushes your D through the roof.

That is how my fat ass survived the first bout. I believe I was spared by the 2nd bout by the Moderna shot.

It is still a killer, and healthy people are mostly immune from it. But not totally.

The people who are in charge of Australia and New Zealand (communist governments) have decided that 1 death is worth no freedom.
 

wesheltonj

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flat8

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I believe that the vaccine question is an important personal decision. I chose to get vaccinated for personal reasons but that being said I would not hunt with any company that required clients to get vaccinated. I am so tired of the shaming and backing people into a corner over this. It has gotten completely out of hand. I know people who have gotten very very sick with Covid, to the point they literally almost died. My wife and daughter caught COVID. My wife had a pretty rough time with it and my daughter never really got that sick. But…… I flat out refuse to do business with anyone that “requires” a vaccination, even though I am. I will not do business or associate with people that involve themselves in shaming others over it either. Nor will I do any business with businesses that require masks. What a load of shit that is. This disease has a 99.6.% survival rate. That is way higher than most other pandemic Illnesses. Too many people have drank the koolaide on this and are enabling the worlds governments to straight up violate human rights over it. This is about power and nothing more. Not to mention the vaccines are not near as effective as made out to be. Vaccinated people still get sick and die. There is a big case over it now here in the states. Quite frankly I’m sick and damn tired of all this crap.
I can certainly understand wanting to take precautions but requiring people to do something to their body so that someone else has peace of mind is appalling and selfish. There are people that have died from the vaccines. I can see where in the not to distant future where someone somewhere is going to require another to get vaccinated as policy and that person dies from the vaccine. I can guarantee that there will be a hellava law suite over it as well there should be.
I am not anti vaccine as a whole. Lord knows I’ve been vaccinated for all kinds of crap due to traveled I’ve been on. I got the Pfizer Covid vaccine for this and take my last shot on the 29th so I fall into the “fully vaccinated” category. The only reason I did so is because of the large amount of time I have spent in the hospital in the last year due to health issues. I figured that it would be wise as hospitals are a great place to catch all kinds of shit. Hell I caught staff one time due to a surgery.
The truth is these vaccines are pretty damn ineffective. Study after study has shown this. People are still getting sick and dying from the VID even though they have been vaccinated.
As an outfitter myself I would never require people to be vaccinated. It is not my right to do so and I feel that is a very unreasonable thing to ask of clients. I understand those who have gotten very ill are scared. I’ve been scared as I’ve been exposed numerous times and have seen how sick friends and family have gotten over it. You have to ask yourself though if you are willing to loose the business from people who refuse the vaccines, as is their right to do so. If you can great, odds are you can’t. I don’t feel I’m alone in the feeling of refusing to do business with someone who has this requirement. I believe it is a very unreasonable request and would cost you dearly in the long run due to loss of business. Now if countries start requiring it for international travel then problem solved as anyone coming in will have to be vaccinated anyway. Unless that happens id leave it as a personal choice for clients. Besides, if the vaccine works (I really don’t believe it does) then why worry about it. You should be covered right?

Spot on @gizmo.
 

sestoppelman

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Without looking at lots of new posts, thought this was interesting. Roller coaster of effects from no vacs to many vacs to tanking the Covid numbers to climbing back up again now with around 65 percent of the population fully vac'd.
And the numbers are climbing again. And its not a pandemic of the unvac'd. Many of the new cases are from fully vac'd peoples, so called breakthrough infections.
In essence the vac's are not working as advertised.
Oh I know, "well if everyone got the jab it would be over". Nope not buying it.
We kept everyone scared into locking down for a year, ruining the health of many folks by doing so, ruining our immune systems by keeping exposure to anything at bay. Then we get brave, touch the waters with our toes and start all over again.
And here we are, most Americans fully vac'd and getting sick again. And if its the fault of the unvac'd, how are the fully vac'd getting sick, if the unvac'd are not sick?
Look at Israel, the most vac'd country in the world on here. Same thing happening there, a big rise in cases again and most there by far are vaccinated.
So either the so called vaccines dont work or this is the end result of ruining our health for a year, doing nothing but getting fat by hiding from a virus that was at least 95 percent survivable for most people.
So much of what we have been told is hogwash and lies, and it just keeps coming.
If we are so worried about this crap, why do we now have open borders with no checks on all the millions of illegals coming into the country totally unchecked and being bussed all over the country, not to mention the thousands of new instant citizens from the Stan?
Uncle Joe mandates the jab or testing but right off the bat exempts the US Postal Service? Seriously?
Of course Congress is also exempted. And no doubt other Unions will get their carve out when the time comes if Uncle Sippy Cup Joes mandates survive the coming legal challenges.
Its a giant cluster f***!
 

gizmo

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Without looking at lots of new posts, thought this was interesting. Roller coaster of effects from no vacs to many vacs to tanking the Covid numbers to climbing back up again now with around 65 percent of the population fully vac'd.
And the numbers are climbing again. And its not a pandemic of the unvac'd. Many of the new cases are from fully vac'd peoples, so called breakthrough infections.
In essence the vac's are not working as advertised.
Oh I know, "well if everyone got the jab it would be over". Nope not buying it.
We kept everyone scared into locking down for a year, ruining the health of many folks by doing so, ruining our immune systems by keeping exposure to anything at bay. Then we get brave, touch the waters with our toes and start all over again.
And here we are, most Americans fully vac'd and getting sick again. And if its the fault of the unvac'd, how are the fully vac'd getting sick, if the unvac'd are not sick?
Look at Israel, the most vac'd country in the world on here. Same thing happening there, a big rise in cases again and most there by far are vaccinated.
So either the so called vaccines dont work or this is the end result of ruining our health for a year, doing nothing but getting fat by hiding from a virus that was at least 95 percent survivable for most people.
So much of what we have been told is hogwash and lies, and it just keeps coming.
If we are so worried about this crap, why do we now have open borders with no checks on all the millions of illegals coming into the country totally unchecked and being bussed all over the country, not to mention the thousands of new instant citizens from the Stan?
Uncle Joe mandates the jab or testing but right off the bat exempts the US Postal Service? Seriously?
Of course Congress is also exempted. And no doubt other Unions will get their carve out when the time comes if Uncle Sippy Cup Joes mandates survive the coming legal challenges.
Its a giant cluster f***!
Amen.
 

Tokoloshe Safaris

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Do you recommend the malaria meds? I haven't been to an area with malaria present , yet, but hope to in the future.
Yes I do recommend Malarone it seems to have the least side effects. Larium, no!
 

Tokoloshe Safaris

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As far as I know vaccinations for Covid 19 not required to entry into Zim., but you must have a negative Covid 19 test within 48 or 72 hours prior to entry by air travel. They seem to bounce back and forth on 48 or 72 hours.
 

Rimshot

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@gizmo and @sestoppelman
I share your distrust of the ruling class here. They have agendas that often don't intersect with my personal well being. Vaccine mandates and all the other unconstitutional action by the executive when people assert their rights reminds me of the Obama years. There will be court challenges yes, but it serves to further erode institutional credibility even more, when they should be issuing mea culpas instead!

Regarding vaccines though, I would encourage you to independently seek out information from non-political sources, or get a friend you trust who is well versed in an Applied science to discuss the research data with you. Reports of large numbers of vaccinated people becoming hospitalized or dying compared to unvaccinated are simply untrue. There is data from all over the country among hundreds of thousands of people, and around 99% of deaths and 97% of hospitalizations are unvaxxed.

What you may be confused by is cases, which are ticking up as people who were vaccinated early see their neutralizing antibody level drop after 5-6 months and the 'breakthrough' infections occur. Although the infection could still be acute, the chance of needing to be hospitalized is still much reduced over someone who hasn't had the vaccine. Your adaptive immune system (T-cells) can be mobilized much longer after vaccination than the innate (antibodies).

I could post a bunch of links to the data, but it isn't my intent to prove who's right, score points or anything like that. All these mandates and coercion has backfired spectacularly, and it was a stupid thing to do (like almost everything government does). Everyone should decide for themselves, just make sure you have enough information to make the best decision.
 

lwaters

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I was fully vaccinated with Moderna and had a breakthrough infection. No fever just coughing and sneezing. My doctor prescribed the regeneron monoclonal antibody infusion for me and my wife. Wiped it out completely in two days. We cannot take a booster or even the flu shot for 90 days after infusion. Having a breakthrough infection isn't that bad a deal as you gain more antibodies.
 

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NTH wrote on Rick HOlbert's profile.
Nice “meeting” you Rick. I made my first trip to S. Africa this year through Kuche Safaris. We had an incredible time. What outfitter do you use? Neal
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