Choice of outfitter

[Scott CWO]

Oh good Lord. Find a bit of a sense of humor. I get that - done just a bit of it.

But that is exactly the point I was trying to make. Someone who has only experienced North America likely will be blown away by any of that 80% of the operations in Africa. Apples to Oranges as you suggest. The key is to develop enough understanding of the African experience (without having been there) to make an informed apples to apples decision. That takes either a lot of research or a trusted consultant.

Yeah I wasn’t upset. Just pointing out the reasons some hunts different than others. It’s Dinty Moore stew by the way. Yummy! Haha.

 

[meigsbucks]

Every one of the previous posts has good info. This site has a lot of hunting reports from members that had great experience… and a few bad. Between this site and DSC or SCI, you can narrow it down to a few choices.
Contact these outfitters. Ask the important questions (I have a list that I’m always modifying). One thing that I ALWAYS do is request a recent reference list from each outfitter I’m considering and I call or at least email every reference. Most people are more than happy to talk to you about their experiences. Ask them the same questions you asked the outfitter but on a more personal level.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I would suggest this question “what did they do during Covid shutdown “. I would want operators who took the time to improve camp or accomplish tasks that will better the clients experience.

A challenging proposition when you may also be busy finding other ways to feed your family.

 

[BRICKBURN]

............ what are the top 5 things you look at when deciding which outfitter/company to book with.
........

1. Species
2. Large enough property - relative to species being hunted. (I've settled my fence debate to my satisfaction)
3. Experience -
4. Responsiveness - Client Focus. Honesty.
5. Economics - prices (value for money), deposits, refunds, billing/payment.

I have booked hunts without ever speaking to the Outfitter/PH directly and would not hesitate to do so in the future. ( All done with internet research and emails.) AH provided further reinforcement for choices through reading hunting reports.
As @Red Leg noted, a consultant can be very useful. If I were going somewhere I could not get adequate information on my own, a hunting consultant would be used.

 

[Tra3]

+1 for a referral. People here on AH will answer your questions if you ask.
+1 on a trip to DSC or SCI, that will clarify a lot of questions (and doubts).
Take note of a potential candidate and if he/she asks questions of what you are looking for in the hunt and experience.

I love a good “Dinty Moore” hunt and the difficulty involved. A full day of elk hunting In the mountains is a “vacation” to few. A full day of hunting in Africa, while significant walking may be involved, is more comfortable.

 

[375Fox]

This is a difficult question to clearly answer. I try to choose my hunts and outfitters based on the area and the experience. If I see an outfitter marketing huge trophies and color variants, I have no interest in hunting with them. I want to hunt with outfitters interesting in ethical hunting and focused on a good experience.
My most recent hunt to South Africa, I chose to hunt with that outfitter because he had a large exclusive coastal area and clearly explained the management of it to me and his experience with the property that really made him stand out compared to other outfitters. He also hunted a large Karoo property that made a good combo hunt. His marketing also stressed the experience over the trophy.
My recent hunts to Namibia, I chose because of the outfitter holding wilderness concessions areas in multiple parts of the country. I also went at end of season both times and had opportunity to change areas during the hunt.
My next hunt to Zimbabwe. I met with them at DSC and chose them because I like they focused on a proper tracking and a hard hunt instead of trophies. I also liked the documented money back into anti poaching and efforts to improve their area.
If I hunt in Limpopo again, an outfitter will need to explain the management that gets used on the property they are hunting and their experience hunting that property. I probably won’t go back for just a general hunt. Something about the property and hunt needs to stand out as different from others that I’ve previously had there.

 

[Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy]

Meeting the PH at one of the big shows like DSC is critical for me. Will I get along with this guy that I am planning to spend a bunch of time with?

Lots of good suggestions already. Only other two things I'd add that haven't been mentioned yet: confirm that they are a member of a professional association (especially Africa, plenty to choose from). That is a good indicator they're an ethical outfit.

Other thing I'd caution is price. Yes, some are cheaper than others but there may also be a reason why they can offer bargain basement deals - some of which may be a deterrent for you like smaller hunting area, lower trophy quality, etc. Know the reasons and consider that a part of the decision. Some guys like to negotiate below sticker price and that's fine, but if you're too much of a hardass it could backfire. Just because the same outfitter had an auction item sell for X or charged your buddy Y for something doesn't mean that they would necessarily want to do it again. Circumstances could be different. Be reasonable and treat them with respect and you'll get the same.

 

[Tanks]

Meeting the PH at one of the big shows like DSC is critical for me. Will I get along with this guy that I am planning to spend a bunch of time with?

...

In a lot of cases for larger outfitters you will not meet the specific PH that you will hunt with as not all PHs make it to the show, and in some cases PH will not even be assigned until later when the schedule is fleshed out between all hunters.

Even hunting areas can change. On my recent hunt leopard quota had been filled in the "community/camp fire" areas and we had only the Dande Safari area under the purview of National Parks for leopard. Still a huge area though.

Getting back to the OP the most important question is "What kind of game are you after?". There are outfitters that have the areas and expertise for DG and others who specialize in PG. After that you can narrow it down further based on your budget and the type of hunt you wish to have.

 

[curtism1234]

1. Time it takes to get to the lodge (not the outfitter's fault but just a nature of having little paid time off in the United States) and main animals I want

2. Communication. I expect a reasonable timeframe and a reasonable response

3. Size of property

4. Price. It's not the end all but it's high on the list

5. Number of clients in camp - the only people's BS I'm normally willing to put up with is my own

6. PH match. While important, I think it comes in last on my list because reputable establishments have reputable PH's or the owner hunting. Expectations have to be notated and agreed upon prior to booking. I will not shoot from the truck. Period. Unless I tell the PH otherwise

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

1. Safety in the country, you want the be relaxed.
2. Ambiance and setting, it must taste of Africa.
3. Competence of the operator and his crew.
4. Animal selection.
5. Cost.

 

[WoodFire]

I’m still kind of a newby here but I’ve been to Africa a few times and these are the things I would like to have known to consider before I started going:

1. Size, type, and distance to property: A lot of property in some places is fenced (high or low) and you have to decide what you want in this regard, but it seems like the degree or presence of fencing is not always advertised. You and the outfitter should discuss this ahead of time. I don’t personally mind driving to a hunting concession for good animals in good areas but you need to think about how much of your 7, 12, 14 day safari is acceptable to spend driving. The size of the concessions you will be driving to plays some role as well. A small area won’t take you long to hunt or explore and then you may be driving again in only a few hours. Also consider how long it will take you to get into camp from the nearest airport. You could easily eat up a day or half a day on each end of your trip (again, not that it’s a deal breaker but it’s a factor).

2. Huntable animals and their availability during your safari: Not every outfitter always has all the animals they advertise. Permits can be limited and lots of people may have come in ahead of you. Related to this, is trophy density enough that you have a fair chance to get what you want (size and quality) presuming permits are available? I have gotten to Africa only to be told that there were no more permits for one of the animals that was at the top of my list (said list being provided to outfitter ahead of time). I am a “take what Africa gives me” hunter but have learned to let the outfitter know specifically what must be available for hunting to make the trip worth it for me.

3. Who you will hunt with and how they hunt: ideally, you can meet your PH at DSC, SCI or otherwise, but this is not always possible. There seems to be to be a big difference between PH’s. Some like to glass, some like to stalk, some like to sit water holes or trails, some only want to drive until they spot game, some want you to shoot from the road, etc. To some extent the hunt method is dictated by the terrain and game, but there is more opportunity for variation in methods than you might think. In my mind, most of the hunt is not just killing animals. I am in for the full experience and I don’t want my experience to be mostly bouncing around in a LandCruiser. If you can’t meet your PH ahead of time to see if you’re a match, the outfitter should know your requirements and preferences and the onus is on them to match you appropriately or, potentially in a rare case, tell you your expectations can’t be met.

4. Size of the outfit: I prefer small, and I more prefer to be the only party in camp. Neither of these are always possible but if I am going to have to deal with other hunters who may be loud and drunk, and my PH is going to have to give and take hunting areas with other PHs, the other factors have to make it worth it.

5. Costs, hidden and otherwise: You’ve got daily rates, you’ve got trophy fees, you’ve got package deals, etc. On top of this you’ll have tips. You need to budget for generous tips because everyone may do a fantastic job. If you are moving camps you are expected to tip at every camp (the total amount should be the same, in theory, but some camps have more people helping you than others). Some outfitters charge for picking you up, charge for changing camps, charge you extra for first or last night in camp, etc. Some charge for liquor. Some charge for handling trophies.

Not directly related to you question but also consider taxidermy. I wish I had gotten less work done on my first trip. It’s ok to say no altogether, or (in my mind) to have the cape sent to the taxidermist and cool off a bit from the excitement of the hunt (and consider whether you will go back) before you make final decisions. Also consider rifle permitting agencies, travel agents, Global Rescue/Ripcord, visiting a travel doctor, getting vaccinations and testing, etc. Finally consider all the equipment you may talk yourself into “needing” when you are getting ready to go (what better time to get that new scope or rangefinder, after all).

Lastly, I am a little jealous of hunters who have not gone to Africa yet, but are going to. With some good planning, you have the magical first trip to Africa to look forward to. It can be life changing.

 

[Charles de Ribeau]

References from a large number of “first timers” are not worth a whole lot but you should get references. Ask the references how many different African outfitters they have hunted with. Be aware of “hero worship” from the first timers.

Some of the first timer reviews can be a bit like reading rave reviews of properties on Trip Advisor that begin with something along the lines of "My husband spent our honeymoon at this incredible resort..."

There are first timers and then there are first timers. Some folks haven't hunted anything but whitetails and turkeys no further than 100 miles from home. Then there are the hunters that haven't hunted Africa but have plenty of varied experiences. For example they may have hunted elk, moose, caribou, brown or grizzly bear in North America. They may have gone wing shooting in South America or red stag in New Zealand. They will have a much different perspective than the hunter who has never ventured beyond the "back 40"to hunt and has never traveled outside of the US or Canada for any reason.

 

[autofire]

I think that getting a reference from someone you know or at least someone who you feel is unbiased is critical. Outfitters and PH's all talk a good talk as they are part salesman in order to survive. I have had a wide range of experiences in Africa, which range from great, to good to unsafe. I would not allow a medical professional to address anything but a routine problem without a personal reference. Don't think it is a good idea to go to a foreign country and remote location where you are 100% at the mercy of the outfitter/PH without having a personal reference. Walking back to the nearest town via road in the bush for 10-100 miles in not something you would want to experience.

 

[Nyati]

Yes, there is homework to be done, but in the end it is always an adventure.

I have a good friend who recommends an outfitter who is the very best according to him.

I followed his advice, and had the worst experience I ever had in RSA.

 

[ApexGold]

Thanks for everyone's opinions on this

Personally I believe a lot has to do with more than just what show etc.
I have never been to any of the SCI shows and in the end its every guys decision as well as opinion but it simply doesn't make sense when taking cost etc. in to consideration what those shows cost and all the small things that goes with it.
I do believe word of moth is obviously the best but you also need to always market yourself and getting in to new client basis.
I understand hunting area size, I understand recommendations and all of this. But doesn't it feel like things are becoming a sausage machine these days?
Where has the personal interaction in the hunting industry gone to?
I mean guys are talking about possibly not even seeing there outfitter in camp?

I feel that hunting is a social thing. People become life long friends and for this reason even now when I am looking for elk hunts, I look for hunts where I know exactly whom I will be hunting with and then further than that I look for someone that I will be able to spend 12 days with and have fun.
Even a unsuccessful hunt where you had fun is better than just a unsuccessful hunt (elk hunting) where one knows the chance is there that you could be going home without the big boy.

In the end I guess it depends what you want from a hunt and the experience in the end.

 

[ApexGold]

I would suggest this question “what did they do during Covid shutdown “. I would want operators who took the time to improve camp or accomplish tasks that will better the clients experience.

You have a good and valid point here.
Lets just take a small thing like adding a chalet to your lodge setup. Your looking at spending $35 000.
So spending money and making big improvements to the lodge when you don't know what's happening tomorrow is probably not the best business idea in the end
Lets be honest, if an outfitter has even just been able to make it through Covid, it says a lot about his business.
See the hunting industry doesn't really allow an outfitter that much time in general to be able to run multiple businesses. For most outfitters hunting literally is their life

 

[Tanks]

You have a good and valid point here.
Lets just take a small thing like adding a chalet to your lodge setup. Your looking at spending $35 000.
So spending money and making big improvements to the lodge when you don't know what's happening tomorrow is probably not the best business idea in the end
Lets be honest, if an outfitter has even just been able to make it through Covid, it says a lot about his business.
See the hunting industry doesn't really allow an outfitter that much time in general to be able to run multiple businesses. For most outfitters hunting literally is their life

One other thing. For the free range concessions maintenance did not stop and neither did the anti-poacher patrols. Not to mention the concession fees given to National Parks and communities.

So, no revenue with almost the same overhead.

 

[fourfive8]

The point is there must be certain characteristics that you look for...... what would that be.

Happy hunting

Aside from the area and parameters of acceptable types or styles of hunting- I think there is an intangible that can't be quantified. For example: an outfitter/PH may hunt an area known for lots of the right kind of game and areas that consistency produces large examples of that game and the style of hunting matches your preference and so on... but are those the only points to consider? Not for me. There is a lot to be said about actually spending quite a bit of time talking to, meeting in person or having good communication with any prospective outfitter/PH. There are some people I get along with better than others. I think everyone is that way to some extent. If there is a hint of personality conflict I may politely pass and continue looking. I would much rather spend a bunch of money and time enjoying the company of someone I like being around and having to work for lesser game than shooting a bunch of game and struggling to enjoy the company of a conflicting personality. I've had a great time on unsuccessful hunts and even returned to try the same all over again.