CBL Banned??

[Kharn]

No question about it, if wild lions were much more affordable versus to just a select few there would be no demand for CBL

But what about the convenience?

Some hunters (NOT talking about myself here) actually do value the Trophy more than anything else, not the journey/the hunt/the memory, just the Trophy & everything to get that Trophy is just "annoying waste of time grifting etc", They LOVE being able to pick & choose their Trophy from a neatly presented catalogue! It's WHY they are there!

It's just (lol) a matter of ""making"" CBL Hunts pay for Wild Lion Habitats, maybe CBL Hunt prices should increase so that a portion of it goes to Wild Lion Habitats? How to enforce it though... yeah ok

 

[Tanks]

No question about it, if wild lions were much more affordable versus to just a select few there would be no demand for CBL

That was not my point. My point was that CBL going away is not going to increase demand for wild hunts.

Personally, I would even like a restriction on elephant hunts to preserve the genetic stock. Either use the Tanzanian approach (6ft or so a side of visible tusk) or a minimum weight of 50lbs or so before one is able to shoot an elephant. Increase prices accordingly so it is revenue neutral.

 

[fourfive8]

Putting minimum size requirement on any trophy species puts all the pressure on exactly the segment of the population that needs protection.

 

[Tanks]

Putting minimum size requirement on any trophy species puts all the pressure on exactly the segment of the population that needs protection.

Seems to work for Tanzania. Not to mention most lions, leopards etc. have an age limit for the free range countries.

 

[Russ16]

Seems to work for Tanzania. Not to mention most lions, leopards etc. have an age limit for the free range countries.

It’s a fine balance. There are some areas where a species just doesn’t get as big.

I don’t know about elephant genetics but with deer you need to take some of the smaller ones to eliminate their genetics. Not sure if that’s the case with tusks.

 

[fourfive8]

Biologically, the most expendable in a population is the younger age class. But psychologically, sport hunters forever have campaigned against shooting younger animals. Ideally, harvests should be numerically limited and reflective of a level among all age classes and sexes to maintain a healthy, reproductive population. A complete understanding of compensatory mortality should be required prior to making what usually degenerates into politically based harvest decisions. In many populations, sufficient % of older males and breeding male dominance can play a critical role in population reproductive health, group survival and overall population resilience.

 

[Garciamarquez1918]

Looks like an interesting and relevant read:

Cuddle Me, Kill Me: A True Account of South Africa's Captive Lion Breeding and Canned Hunting Industry​

by Richard Peirce

Canned lion hunting sprang to the world’s attention with the 2015 launch of the documentary, Blood Lions. This movie blew the cover off a brutal industry that has burgeoned in the last decade or so, operating largely under the radar of public concern.

In Cuddle Me Kill Me, Richard Peirce

- He tells the true story of two male lions rescued from breeding farms
- The exploitation and misery of these apex predators when they are bred in captivity
- How young cubs are removed from their mothers mere hours after birth
- How they are first used for petting by an adoring (and paying) public
- Their subsequent use for ‘walking with lions’ tourism
- And how, in the final stage of exploitation, they are served up in fenced enclosure for execution by canned hunters – or simply shot by breeders for the value of their carcass, a prized product in the East.

Well researched by Peirce with the help of an undercover agent, and illustrated with photos taken along the way, this is a disturbing and passionate plea to end commercial captive lion breeding and the repurposing of wildlife to cater for human greed.

 

[mark-hunter]

Looks like an interesting and relevant read:

This is antihunting agenda.

What is the difference between lion farm in South Africa, and tiger farm in China?
Well, lion farm is closely related to hunting industry, and that is bad. We dont want hunting around in modern urban world.

In China, they raise tigers on the farm for purpose of traditional medicine.

So, which one goes to bad press?
CBL you can find all over the internet and media, only few articles here and there about tiger farming.

 

[Russ16]

This is antihunting agenda.

What is the difference between lion farm in South Africa, and tiger farm in China?
Well, lion farm is closely related to hunting industry, and that is bad. We dont want hunting around in modern urban world.

In China, they raise tigers on the farm for purpose of traditional medicine.

So, which one goes to bad press?
CBL you can find all over the internet and media, only few articles here and there about tiger farming.

The lack of a free press in China and the difficulty in reporting on their activities is a big part of that.

Lots of Chinese practices are abhorrent and rarely reported on.

 

[mark-hunter]

Yes, maybe.
But "free press" is legacy of western countries, and 1st amendment which is implemented in various legal form in western world.
It is not exactly flourishing on African continent.

It is the western press on the offensive against international hunting.
There are some bad practices with CBL, which come conveniently for them.

Western press is also not banned of access in China to report back in home countries.
But they are selective in their work.

And there is a reason for selectiveness.
It is called cherry picking and is one of major propaganda tools.
They qoute 8000 tigers bred in captivity in China, twice the number of tigers in the wild.
Its big business.
(But apparently not so interesting for western press, because it has nothing to do with hunting).

https://www.worldwildlife.org/news/stories/what-i-saw-at-a-chinese-tiger-farm-and-what-it-means-for-wild-tigers/

 

[375Fox]

And there is a reason for selectiveness.
It is called cherry picking and is one of major propaganda tools.
They qoute 8000 tigers bred in captivity in China, twice the number of tigers in the wild.
Its big business.
(But apparently not so interesting for western press, because it has nothing to do with hunting).

The Chinese also don’t market cub petting or tiger shooting events to westerners. South Africans brought this down on themselves. There were tiger shooting events sold in South Africa a few years ago too by the way. We shouldn’t be defending this as hunting. It’s commercial farming with a unique harvesting method. As much as I find CBL reprehensible, if it was done quietly where I didn’t see or hear of it and no one else did either, I’d find it an acceptable compromise. It appears to be going that direction now if it isn’t banned.

 

[mark-hunter]

South Africans brought this down on themselves.

I agree with that - they did advertising and this brought down the public wrath on them.
But other half of blame is on hunters blasting pictures around on internet.
What better evidence antihunters need?
All they need to do is spin it, and add few morality phrases about blood thirsty white hunters from our communities.

Almost all antihunting campaigns started by making a spin of the photos of hunters with animals, who posted their own pictures around.

There were tiger shooting events sold in South Africa a few years ago too by the way.

True. At least one tiger shot in South Africa, I found on this forum. I was surprised.
But somehow this practise vanished from public domaine

It’s commercial farming with a unique harvesting method.

True.

As much as I find CBL reprehensible, if it was done quietly where I didn’t see or hear of it and no one else did either, I’d find it an acceptable compromise.

I agree.
But still, I would not ban it, even if I will not participate in it. To each, his own.

 

[Azklmsr]

Pretty interesting topic. Lots of passion on both sides. That can be a good thing or a bad thing.

For me, it comes down to do I personally see it as a sporting activity. Few of us on this forum argue that truly wind lion hunting is anything by very sporting. Current CBL hunting as I understand it, doesn't pass my personal hurdle. That's me and I'm not feeling the need to drive others into my perspective.

Could it be made sporting. I think so. Animals released on sufficiently large enough property and in numbers that allow them to congregate and act like a pride. A hunt that is not running 100%. Cost that are a lot more than the typical, but not to the cost of a hunt in Tanzania. I'd consider that. Again, that's me.

I bow hunt. I use a recurve. I spear fish, breath-hold only. I rifle hunt, but I don't have an interest in a 400+ yrd shot ( ok, truth be known, my longest ever was 215 yards on a white tail in east texas and that was with a scoped pistol). My hunt success is likely super low compared to many. It's ok with me.

Someone wants to do a CBL and they value the experience. Do it. I'm good and not judging you. Got no problem with shooting cow elk over alfalfa for the freezer. Not same as mountain hunts in my native AZ on public land, but then again, I've gotten a near perfect (zero) record on the latter? LOl

My point is that I think CBL as it is conducted today does not attract me. I think it could be modified to attract me. I think some like it and if they are hunter brothers, I'm not looking down on them.

Just 1 guys 2 cents

Go in Peace

Kurt