Blue collar blaser

[bruce moulds]

now now bob,
i didn't say 35 whelen, red haired half brother to 9.3x64,
or that the 9.3x64 would be a good backup gun for a 35 whelen,, so lets just keep it civilized.
bruce.

 

[bonnevier]

The Blaser R93/R8 isn’t simply about the straight pull feature. Magazine placement, scope mount system, accuracy, easy barrel swap, cocking mechanism, durability, reliability; the whole package is, imo, what makes it attractive. Personally, I could do without the straight pull, but I would still get a Blaser again for all the other reasons.

 

[calling4life]

So when can we expect a 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeff option?

 

[sgt_zim]

What is interesting, or might get intersting is:
This is supposed to be first straigh pull bolt action, american made for US market, for working and middle class.

To me it is interesting how come, that nobody in USA hasnt come up with this or similar design earlier?
Upon modern commercial gunwriting business, even zombie gun in USA is invented before! (even in overall lack of zombies)

US market, in modern times has been flooded with long range accurate rifle.
Before that with ar15 platforms.
Before that with everything else.

What is missing till now is really a straight pull rifle, american made for blue collar class. (american made, for american sentiment of working and middle class)

This rifle, if the concept gets accepted by American shooting public, might just be a break trough in such market environment.
We will see how it goes.

well, it really comes as no surprise to me that Savage has done this. As I made mention on page 1 of this thread, they have honestly and truly been innovating quite a lot in the last 15 or 20 years.

Remington, OTOH, hasn't done jack shit since they came out with the model 700. Here we are 50+ years on with that rifle, and you STILL can't even get a BDL with a floated barrel. IDK, maybe they have and it escaped my notice because I quit paying attention to them at all. For goodness' sake, the first "cheap" Savage 110 I bought way back when had a floated barrel.

Ruger/Hornady have done some very cool stuff WRT big bore/DG cartridges - standard long action for .375 and .416

Winchester hasn't really done any more than Remington, and they don't make ANY LH rifles at all any more.

T/C's innovation was an inexpensive (but quite accurate) line of bolt rifles.

What have Weatherby/Howa done in the last 20 years?

 

[mark-hunter]

Interesting point, which reminds me on the thread here on forum: Quality of american firearms

 

[mdwest]

Remington, OTOH, hasn't done jack shit since they came out with the model 700. Here we are 50+ years on with that rifle, and you STILL can't even get a BDL with a floated barrel. IDK, maybe they have and it escaped my notice because I quit paying attention to them at all. For goodness' sake, the first "cheap" Savage 110 I bought way back when had a floated barrel.

Remington decided to try to enter into new market space with old engineering and designs rather than improve the products that they were known and popular for..

They failed miserably...

 

[Angelo_orygun]

So when can we expect a 505 Gibbs or 500 Jeff option?

With a name like “Big Game” I think that’s an honest question!!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

well, it really comes as no surprise to me that Savage has done this. As I made mention on page 1 of this thread, they have honestly and truly been innovating quite a lot in the last 15 or 20 years.

Remington, OTOH, hasn't done jack shit since they came out with the model 700. Here we are 50+ years on with that rifle, and you STILL can't even get a BDL with a floated barrel. IDK, maybe they have and it escaped my notice because I quit paying attention to them at all. For goodness' sake, the first "cheap" Savage 110 I bought way back when had a floated barrel.

Ruger/Hornady have done some very cool stuff WRT big bore/DG cartridges - standard long action for .375 and .416

Winchester hasn't really done any more than Remington, and they don't make ANY LH rifles at all any more.

T/C's innovation was an inexpensive (but quite accurate) line of bolt rifles.

What have Weatherby/Howa done in the last 20 years?

@Sgt Zim
That's why I like Savage rifles, their set up is accurate straight out of the box.
I remember reading about a world class shooter picking a random F class rifle off the production line for a 1,000 yard shoot. The caliber was 6.5x284 and he shot a 4.5 inch group @ 1,000 yards after sighting in.
That's what you call quality control and outstanding accuracy. Savage has had its problems thru history but has come back stronger and more innovative than ever.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

35 whelen,
little brother to 9.3x64.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
Might be the little brother but not that far behind. How would the 64 go necked to 35. Would be interesting.
Bob

 

[Gringocazador]

Will be interesting to see when they come out. I will buy one just for the heck of it. At one time when you called Savage, they would answer the phone. I bet they still do and will give a release date.

 

[bruce moulds]

@bruce moulds
Might be the little brother but not that far behind. How would the 64 go necked to 35. Would be interesting.
Bob

bob, why would you bother necking down the 64 to 35?
it would make a good cartridge necked down to 7mm as an accompiment to 9.3, and possibly up to 416 as well to make a trio.
case capacity is similar to 338win/7rem mag.
the rws brass is exceptional in its temper, weight consistency, and ability to take pressure.
and they would all fit in a 30/06 length action.
bruce.

 

[Gringocazador]

One other comment on this new Savage. I was on the Savage bandwagon years back, built a few customs. The key to accuracy with Savage is in part to the straightness of their barrels. Some interesting videos of how they check straightness of their barrels by sight. I am sure they will use the same process on this new line.

 

[sgt_zim]

pretty neat stuff

 

[bruce moulds]

barrel straightness is not all that it seems.
a crooked barrel that is straightened is a big no no for accuracy.
a barrel that is so crooked that it needs straightening is just as bad.
claiming straight barrels is a great marketing tool to the great unwashed.
no barrel is ever straight.
consistency of dimension is a more realistic guide to potential accuracy.
sometimes gun writers and advertiser just talk so much sh*t, and the problem with this is that it goes from urban myth to fact.
bruce.

 

[sgt_zim]

well, except in this case, the proof seems to be in the pudding. every savage rifle i've ever owned shot 1 MOA or better out of the box.

 

[bruce moulds]

yes but what is the real reason?
the action design predisposes it to concentricity, and the barrels might well have less tight and loose spots in them.
back in the old days when most barrels were button rifled, most factory guns shot pretty well if you bedded them and tuned the triggers.
rem 700 was noteable in this area.
when the all started hammer forging things went a bit out the window.
again rem 700 was noteable.
i remember seeing a rem with no rifling at all on one side of the bore at the muzzle end!
maybe savage just takes a bit more care than some.
at onr time i used to cast a lead slug in the breech end of any barrel i had, and pulled it through the barrel.
it was shocking how you could feel tight and loose spots.
and some were looser at the muzzle end!
straightness is no help here.
and lapping put the tight spots is a waste of time as the barrel will then be oversized.
this also from experience.
top end barrel makers like krieger never straighten a barrel.
the secret to a less crooked barrel is really the quality of deep drilling.
after that process, there is nothing you can do.
maybe savage rush this process less than some?
it is not a process that needs involvement of bean counters.
ultimately accuracy comes from the muzzle being in the same place of oscillation for each shot.
inconsistent internal dimension detracts from this.
and a slight taper (0.0002 to 0.0004) helps it, as it also offers best muzzle velocity.
bruce.

 

[sgt_zim]

well, i've no real idea the number of barrels Savage "straightens." But I'm guessing more than a few, or they wouldn't have a position and a custom tool built for that purpose.

Whatever they're doing, it's working. As many Savages as I've owned through the years, as many people as I know who own Savages, they all shoot straight, no exceptions at all. Whatever the method of machining and of QA they're doing on their barrels, it is clearly working.

I used to work a P/T gig in the Cypress, TX Gander Mountain. Sold a guy a Win M70 in 458 WM or Lott, forget which. Anyway, Winchester, on a DG rifle, didn't properly mate the barrel to the receiver. The rifle shot something like a foot low at 50 yards no matter what the guy did. That sort of thing probably happens with some regularity, but what is inexcusable is the poor QA which let it go out the door. I've never heard of anything remotely like that in Savage or, my other favorite budget brand, Tikka.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

bob, why would you bother necking down the 64 to 35?
it would make a good cartridge necked down to 7mm as an accompiment to 9.3, and possibly up to 416 as well to make a trio.
case capacity is similar to 338win/7rem mag.
the rws brass is exceptional in its temper, weight consistency, and ability to take pressure.
and they would all fit in a 30/06 length action.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
I see your point. If you necked the 64 up to 416 it would be identical to the 416 Taylor.
No need for us old farts to keep on trying to reinvent the wheel it's a waste of good shooting time.
I'm just greatfull my 25 exceeded my expectations. In a No4 SMLE it almost equal to the 25 out six 3,300 fps with a 100grain core lockt.
In my P14 it pushes hard on the 257 weatherby.
So now I just stick with old tried and true as well as my 25.
Bob

 

[BeeMaa]

well, it really comes as no surprise to me that Savage has done this. As I made mention on page 1 of this thread, they have honestly and truly been innovating quite a lot in the last 15 or 20 years.

Remington, OTOH, hasn't done jack shit since they came out with the model 700. Here we are 50+ years on with that rifle, and you STILL can't even get a BDL with a floated barrel. IDK, maybe they have and it escaped my notice because I quit paying attention to them at all. For goodness' sake, the first "cheap" Savage 110 I bought way back when had a floated barrel.

Ruger/Hornady have done some very cool stuff WRT big bore/DG cartridges - standard long action for .375 and .416

Winchester hasn't really done any more than Remington, and they don't make ANY LH rifles at all any more.

T/C's innovation was an inexpensive (but quite accurate) line of bolt rifles.

What have Weatherby/Howa done in the last 20 years?

Savage brought back the Fox SxS shotgun.
Last year they introduced the Renegauge.
BTW, was made to compete with the Benelli SBE3.
Plus they make some really good bolt action shotguns for deer and turkey.
Not to mention the AccuStock/Trigger/Fit systems.

I agree that Savage has been pushing innovation.

 

[bruce moulds]

bob, it will be interesting to see the barrel life of your 25.
my experience with 25/06 was pretty short.
however you cannot condemn a cartridge for that, as there are no free lunches.
it was amusing to read the crock about the 264 win being a barrel burner, and yet the same authorities never condemned to 257 weathery for same, even though it has a worse case/barrel capacity ratio.
your 25 should have better life than roy's.
bruce.