Being told you could not shoot an animal or were targeting only one animal

[huntinlabs]

So today has been an extremely slow day at work and most of my day was spent on here. I have enjoyed reading hunt reports and looking up random things. This lead me to a question. What would you do if you were on a farm seen a huge bull but was told you could not shoot that one even though it was one of your target animals? The same goes for showing up to a farm and being told you had to target this one animal. I was under the impression after tons and tons of research that most outfitters let you take the best animal you find or are happy with. Unless its a pay by the inch place. So if this happened to you what would your reaction be?

 

[billc]

It depends on the why it was done. If it is because it was a young prime breeding male it can happen. Has nothing to do with size but doing what is best for that ranch. I have passed on animals I would have taken but because they were young the ph had me pass. Could also be an animal that was stocked for breeding and off limits because it is a new animal on the farm.

Places that have self sustain herds can not always just take what they would like and may pass on certain animals for a reason. To many hunters because of a lot of the bs people say about SA think all animals are ok to take and that is not true if the place is run right.

The landowner could also put certain animals off limits no matter what the outfitter thinks.

 

[jeff]

I've been on properties that had reached their harvest quotas on animals on my wish list so they were off limits.

 

[Hogpatrol]

Game ranches/farms can be a hybrid operation. I've been on cull hunts where the owner/ph would select which animals he wanted culled. Also, had some animals that were off limits, usually because they were too small, not a cull animal for whatever reason or weren't up to trophy size.

 

[Divernhunter]

It has happened. I was not mad because it was a Cape Impala ram headed to auction with 5 others and it was measured as SCI Gold #1 and they had already turned down $175,000.00 for it. It was also on property that was not hunted by the normal clients except for Springbok. I already shot #48 the last time I was there and they have plenty of rams that were not caught/microchipped/measured and entered into an auction.

By the same tune I tried to take a certain Eland in 2013 and they told other clients that that one animal was for me when they hunted with other clients. I was a get even for me since it managed to not present a shot for several days the 1st trip. It took 9 days of am/pm stalks/looking for before I was able to connect with it.

I was also told we would target one group of 3 Zebras and one of them more that the others. I did get him after 8.5 days of stalks. I would point out I was there for about a month and hunted about 2/3rds that time plus hunting monkeys/baboons on my own for a number of days.

It is called management and when you sign on you agree to it. If you cannot then go somewhere else. I am happy as I have taken quite a number of SCI record animals and they strive to put me(and everyone) on good/excellent animals. They have stopped me from shooting animals that were good in an effort to get better.............which they did. As long as you get good animals I see no reason to be unhappy. I do not remember ever talking to someone who was unhappy with the animals presented to them to shoot. So I think you may be overthinking this or looking for trouble where there is none.

Of course this all depends on the outfitter you choose which is why I did 3 years of research before booking my 1st trip. It turned out I made an excellent choice. I have seen others "trophy" animals that were not as good as some of the culls/free ones I shot.

I WILL be hunting with them again but not sure where I will put the mounts from the last trip and lord knows I will have to make a new room for the next stuff.

My 2 Cents

 

[huntinlabs]

It has happened. I was not mad because it was a Cape Impala ram headed to auction with 5 others and it was measured as SCI Gold #1 and they had already turned down $175,000.00 for it. It was also on property that was not hunted by the normal clients except for Springbok. I already shot #48 the last time I was there and they have plenty of rams that were not caught/microchipped/measured and entered into an auction.

By the same tune I tried to take a certain Eland in 2013 and they told other clients that that one animal was for me when they hunted with other clients. I was a get even for me since it managed to not present a shot for several days the 1st trip. It took 9 days of am/pm stalks/looking for before I was able to connect with it.

I was also told we would target one group of 3 Zebras and one of them more that the others. I did get him after 8.5 days of stalks. I would point out I was there for about a month and hunted about 2/3rds that time plus hunting monkeys/baboons on my own for a number of days.

It is called management and when you sign on you agree to it. If you cannot then go somewhere else. I am happy as I have taken quite a number of SCI record animals and they strive to put me(and everyone) on good/excellent animals. They have stopped me from shooting animals that were good in an effort to get better.............which they did. As long as you get good animals I see no reason to be unhappy. I do not remember ever talking to someone who was unhappy with the animals presented to them to shoot. So I think you may be overthinking this or looking for trouble where there is none.

Of course this all depends on the outfitter you choose which is why I did 3 years of research before booking my 1st trip. It turned out I made an excellent choice. I have seen others "trophy" animals that were not as good as some of the culls/free ones I shot.

I WILL be hunting with them again but not sure where I will put the mounts from the last trip and lord knows I will have to make a new room for the next stuff.

My 2 Cents

Not looking for trouble at all. I think we took excellent trophies on my hunt! It was a talking point between a buddy and mine and I was just wondering if the fine group of people here felt the same way as him. His mentality is if he is paying for a trophy he should get the best trophy possible no matter what. While I agree with him I also agree with management and if you don't let the big ones in their prime spread their genes your herd will suffer. So I was just trying to ask other peoples thoughts on being told they could not shoot an animal. I to would hunt with who I hunted with again without hesitation!

 

[Dinsdale]

Hunting Eland and we spotted a herd bull and landowner/PH didn't want him taken as the remaining bulls fight for control of the harem. There were plenty of other choices though, but it never came together over 7 days; although we shot a bunch of good trophies there. The next week on a different property connected on a fine bull everything the first was, big bodied dark mop blue bull with worn heavy horns.

Tried a few times to target a specific animal with much enthusiasm, took a fine Bushbuck that way and a very nice Buffalo that was going to be a 3 day all or nothing effort for a challenge. All those animals free range by the way, but were always seen in the same areas.

Mostly on drive to camp over several hours it was talked about what I was or wasn't willing to put effort into for what was happening on the ground at that time. That's on top of researching the hunt to begin with and being comfortable with the outfitters involved.

 

[CAustin]

Absolutely have been on a hunt and told I could not take a particular animal. Springbok, my nemesis animal, was 20 yards away when the PH said no...can’t shoot that animal on this place. Couldn’t shoot the 42 inch Oryx with the tag in his ear either, breeder bull, but he sure was the biggest one I had ever seen. The two examples give are with two different outfitters. So yep so metimes the animal you would very much like to take home can be off limits.

 

[BRICKBURN]

.......... So I was just trying to ask other peoples thoughts on being told they could not shoot an animal. ............

1. An Impala ram that was just introduced for breeding, that had arrived that day. No big deal.
2. Waterbuck - in the middle of a hunt the rules were changed midstream by the landowner for a BS reason. The owner did not see enough on his hunt the day before.- Pissed off hunters, who were seeing ample numbers through their hunting efforts.
3. Kudu - in the middle of a hunt the rules were changed midstream by the landowner for BS reason. - My friend was livid.
4. Record book animal on the hunting list - Spotted and mysteriously ignored. No explanation, or comment they just kept driving.
(edit: by the way these situations are all where the hunters KNOW the sizes/maturity of the animals being seen)

I'll stop there.

If you are under the impression you are not being managed from the time you arrive until you leave, you are sadly mistaken. It is the Outfitter and PH's job.

Discuss your expectations long before you arrive, including the hunting process. It will avoid disappointment.

 

[huntinlabs]

1. An Impala ram that was just introduced for breeding that had arrived that day. No big deal.
2. Waterbuck - in the middle of a hunt the rules were changed midstream by the landowner for BS reason. The owner did not see enough on his hunt the day before.- Pissed off hunters.
3. Kudu - in the middle of a hunt the rules were changed midstream by the landowner for BS reason. - My friend was livid.
4. Record book animal on the hunting list - Spotted and mysteriously ignored. No explanation, or comment they just kept driving.

I'll stop there.

If you are under the impression you are not being managed from the time you arrive until you leave, you are sadly mistaken. It is the Outfitter and PH's job.

Discuss your expectations long before you arrive, including the hunting process. It will avoid disappointment.

I honestly dont mind being managed. I agree if someone doesn't think they are they are being naive. This was just a general thought in my head. Before booking my hunt my biggest fear was I am not rich so I will not get top quality animals.. while I dont feel like this happened on my last trip. I was more curious how others felt if they were told nope cant shoot that one.

 

[Red Leg]

I really mind being managed. I can go to Europe and take that sort of hunting in stride - it is the culture there. But in Africa, I much prefer to be out from behind a fence hunting wilderness or ranch lands where PH, tracker, and client are focused on finding the finest available trophy hard work, perseverance, and luck will offer. Fortunately, there is still a lot of Africa where that sort of hunt can still take place.

 

[huntinlabs]

I really mind being managed. I can go to Europe and take that sort of hunting in stride - it is the culture there. But in Africa, I much prefer to be out from behind a fence hunting wilderness or ranch lands where PH, tracker, and client are focused on finding the finest available trophy hard work, perseverance, and luck will offer. Fortunately, there is still a lot of Africa where that sort of hunt can still take place.

When I say managed I dont mean micro managed.. I am not ok with that. By managed I mean the PH saying pass on him or that one is a bit more pricey but we can exchange if you want. That sort of stuff.

 

[gillettehunter]

I understand both sides of the question. I, like Red Leg want to hunt hard and take the biggest I can find. I have been to Africa 4 times and hunted with 6 different PH's in 3 different countries. As best I can remember there was only once I was told an animal was off limits. That was huge Sable at Takeri. I was told before I got there that he was one of their young bulls that they wanted to use for breeding. He was estimated at 45 inches. Saw him several times. Just drool and say hi as we went by. Here is a picture.

I suspect that there are times when we are handled. Just need to find someone that hunts as you do. Research is your friend. Bruce

 

[huntinlabs]

I understand both sides of the question. I, like Red Leg want to hunt hard and take the biggest I can find. I have been to Africa 4 times and hunted with 6 different PH's in 3 different countries. As best I can remember there was only once I was told an animal was off limits. That was huge Sable at Takeri. I was told before I got there that he was one of their young bulls that they wanted to use for breeding. He was estimated at 45 inches. Saw him several times. Just drool and say hi as we went by. Here is a picture.
View attachment 229434
I suspect that there are times when we are handled. Just need to find someone that hunts as you do. Research is your friend. Bruce

When I was hunting with my friend in kzn we were told by the land owner there is an impala with an ear tag do not shoot him. When he spotted my wife's impala we jumped off the truck and went on the hunt. After she shot it he said the thing is huge I hope he didnt tear his tag off lol. But he was the best we seen out there and my buddy was determined to get her on it. Luckily there was no slit in the ear so we know it wasn't the one that was off limits.

 

[jpr792]

It's a very good question...

In our areas, no animal is off limits IF we have a permit to hunt one...

The ONE and ONLY reason we might not harvest a specific animal, is if it is too young. In my opinion, trophy hunting should be about finding past-prime animals, that are still trophy size and are a good representative of the species. Younger animals might be bigger at times, but they are there to reproduce. It's the way we live by at Kowas Hunting Safaris.

Trophy Hunting is applied conservation, if you harvest the right animals at the right times in their lives without damaging the future of the specie's gene pool.

The most important thing, you have to trust your Professional Hunter. He is there to help you make the right calls, take the right animals and guide you on a successful safari where your expectations can be met. Clarifying and making sure both Professional Hunter and Client is on the right page is crucial to a successful safari.

That's just my thoughts. It might be different on other properties/areas/countries, but that's how it is here...

My best,
Jacques

 

[Divernhunter]

My 2017 hunt we went to a relatives place to hunt free range bushbuck. I got a nice one. Doing so the PH spotted a really nice Nyala(sp) so he convinced me to return for that animal. He did not have to twist my arm much We hunted all day and saw a number of respectable animals and even at close range. He would not let me shoot even though I wanted to. Just as it was getting dark and I was telling him if we hurry we still can take one of the ones by the dam he thinks he saw the one he wanted. We hustle to get into an ambush position as it makes its way from other property we cannot hunt and I make a 280 yard fast walking shot on it. When the land owner saw it he said IF he knew it was on the property part of the time he would have said we could not shoot it. -----------Too late and now I have SCI book animal that has great shape to put on my wall.

Get all the info you can before booking and you should not have any surprises. My outfitter/PH said I asked more questions than anyone they ever had and they were GLAD because then there should be(and was not) any misunderstandings. Hunted with them 2 times and plan to do so again when I get the money.

 

[Red Leg]

It's a very good question...

In our areas, no animal is off limits IF we have a permit to hunt one...

The ONE and ONLY reason we might not harvest a specific animal, is if it is too young. In my opinion, trophy hunting should be about finding past-prime animals, that are still trophy size and are a good representative of the species. Younger animals might be bigger at times, but they are there to reproduce. It's the way we live by at Kowas Hunting Safaris.

Trophy Hunting is applied conservation, if you harvest the right animals at the right times in their lives without damaging the future of the specie's gene pool.

The most important thing, you have to trust your Professional Hunter. He is there to help you make the right calls, take the right animals and guide you on a successful safari where your expectations can be met. Clarifying and making sure both Professional Hunter and Client is on the right page is crucial to a successful safari.

That's just my thoughts. It might be different on other properties/areas/countries, but that's how it is here...

My best,
Jacques

Hard to go wrong if one’s outfitter has this hunting philosophy.

 

[Doug375]

I prefer to be free to shoot the animal I want. Of course, the PH makes the call on immature animals and I will gladly accept the restriction. I ask the outfitter before I book if that's the way he hunts. If not, I know it and can make an informed decision. If they tell me that some animals will be off limits, due to their management program, I'll know that going in. I might decide to hunt there anyway, but I wouldn't want to learn about restrictions while in the field.

 

[Blue Moon]

I really mind being managed. I can go to Europe and take that sort of hunting in stride - it is the culture there. But in Africa, I much prefer to be out from behind a fence hunting wilderness or ranch lands where PH, tracker, and client are focused on finding the finest available trophy hard work, perseverance, and luck will offer. Fortunately, there is still a lot of Africa where that sort of hunt can still take place.

I also have problem with that hunting model, but saying that it is culture over here in Europe is a very broad generalization. It is in my opinion mainly used in Central and Southern Europe (not in the north) and even there you can in many, if not most, cases choose to book the hunt with fixed prices instead and not having to worry about trophy rates "by the inch".

 

[Red Leg]

I also have problem with that hunting model, but saying that it is culture over here in Europe is a very broad generalization. It is in my opinion mainly used in Central and Southern Europe (not in the north) and even there you can in many, if not most, cases choose to book the hunt with fixed prices instead and not having to worry about trophy rates "by the inch".

You are correct - my apologies - I painted the Continent with a pretty broad brush. Though you have embraced this European Union thing However, charging costs by medal class and graduations within class, is pretty much the universal model through Spain, Germany, Austria, France's Alpine region, and much of central Europe - at least when hunting high game. I have not hunted Scandinavia. Russian Red Stag are certainly marketed by medal class. I would suspect that covers about 90% of the territory hunted by foreign hunters on the Continent.