Being told you could not shoot an animal or were targeting only one animal

huntinlabs

AH fanatic
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
522
Reaction score
732
Media
132
Hunting reports
Africa
2
USA/Canada
5
Recently I was provided a trail cam photo of a Kudu that has been made known to me is off limits BEFORE my hunt. I understand the reason and it is likely a 64+ " bull and at least I know ahead of time.

That is a hell of a bull and while I get that they want him to breed to spread his genes, and I respect that they told you before your hunt to me though I feel unless it is a pay by the inch hunt the PH should hunt to get the client the BEST trophy POSSIBLE. Now to one client that could mean a non typical animal with weird horns, but I feel if the client is after a trophy the PH needs to hunt the biggest animal available. If not then the outfitter should and needs to be upfront with the client. I think this is why some people are afraid and maybe even feel like unless they are a big paying client then the PH will not take getting the best animal possible seriously.

But then it comes to what classifies as a "trophy" to me the trophy is the hunt, however if I really think about a "trophy" and how we label trophies and if it makes books or not. It makes me wonder if it is really a "trophy" (in the sense of how we label it) if it doesn't make the books?
 

ActionBob

AH legend
Joined
Dec 12, 2011
Messages
3,844
Reaction score
6,221
Location
Central Minnesota
Media
97
Hunting reports
Africa
4
Mex/S.Amer
1
Member of
NRA life, DSC, SCI
Hunted
Minnesota, Texas, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, British Columbia, Argentina, Kansas, Macedonia, Austria
That is a hell of a bull and while I get that they want him to breed to spread his genes, and I respect that they told you before your hunt to me though I feel unless it is a pay by the inch hunt the PH should hunt to get the client the BEST trophy POSSIBLE. Now to one client that could mean a non typical animal with weird horns, but I feel if the client is after a trophy the PH needs to hunt the biggest animal available. If not then the outfitter should and needs to be upfront with the client. I think this is why some people are afraid and maybe even feel like unless they are a big paying client then the PH will not take getting the best animal possible seriously.

But then it comes to what classifies as a "trophy" to me the trophy is the hunt, however if I really think about a "trophy" and how we label trophies and if it makes books or not. It makes me wonder if it is really a "trophy" (in the sense of how we label it) if it doesn't make the books?
I've explained this before but it is appropriate here again; On my first African hunt, it w as in RSA but with an outfitter who prides himself in only hunting free range areas... There are low fences, and the manage the numbers of animals and by that trophy quality by setting self imposed quotas... They have very large "conservancies" or blocks where the land owners agree to a management plan, I believe they have soem government involvement, Nature Conservation or something like that. I think they really only have an interest in certain protected species. So the Outfitter meets with the landowners and sets quota. (he and his family also own a large amount)

I'm sure the land owner gets paid when an animals is shot on his land, but the animals are free to range as widely as they wish, unless a cattle or sheep fence stops them. As I said earlier, zebra where off limits in the home conservancy because they felt they had taken too many. However we went another area for that and got a true trophy stallion. The Outfitter had also came to agreement on additional areas for kudu because as he put it, every client wants a kudu. This was East Cape....

Another topic that relates to @huntinlabs points; The hunt I'm referencing was 9 days, we passed on a kudu and the PH explained he might take it if we were on short days, but as we had plenty of time, he would strive to find a better one. That is the best as far as experience on larger PG that I have had in South Africa.... Now I've gone with the intent of taking smaller critters, night critters and small predators and to me South Africa is a great place for that... Lots of all the above, and for the most part non of those are contained by a fence;)

Really those experiences were very similar to hunting the farm country at home in MN.

But yea, get out the high fence, managed breeding to avoid encountering the scenarios mentioned by @buck wild
 

K-man

AH elite
Joined
Apr 14, 2013
Messages
1,781
Reaction score
3,271
Media
71
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
3
USA/Canada
3
Hunted
Spain, Alaska, RSA, Zimbabwe, New Zealand, British Columbia, Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming
On a free range highly managed whitetail hunt here at home i was shown a picture of a young buck named "corkscrew" because of his 12" brow tines. He was off limits because he was only a 2 yr old deer and looked like a spindly teenager with a 160 inch rack. Guess who came rolling into camp with the deer? The camp manager who showed me the picture. The other guides raked him hard for years over that one, he was nearly fired, and they all said, never again. Nothing "off limits". I have seen spectacular animals but most of the "off limits" was because they were breeding or still too young.
 

dory

AH fanatic
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
866
Reaction score
809
Location
stewart island
Media
23
Hunting reports
Africa
2
Hunted
New Zealand . Namibia .
This is why i chose to hunt free range namibia !
Anything goes and not even the PH new what was around the next corner .
Any and every good animal we saw was shootable , it was up to me .
Love it !
 

Dr Ray

AH legend
Joined
Apr 1, 2017
Messages
2,704
Reaction score
2,799
Location
Cairns, Australia
Media
52
Articles
5
Hunting reports
Australia/NZ
5
It depends on the why it was done. If it is because it was a young prime breeding male it can happen. Has nothing to do with size but doing what is best for that ranch. I have passed on animals I would have taken but because they were young the ph had me pass. Could also be an animal that was stocked for breeding and off limits because it is a new animal on the farm.

Places that have self sustain herds can not always just take what they would like and may pass on certain animals for a reason. To many hunters because of a lot of the bs people say about SA think all animals are ok to take and that is not true if the place is run right.

The landowner could also put certain animals off limits no matter what the outfitter thinks.

Good point
 

johnnyblues

AH ambassador
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
6,862
Reaction score
7,277
Location
Georgia
Media
193
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
11
Mex/S.Amer
1
Hunted
USA, ALASKA Canada, New Zealand, Mexico Africa.
And their lies the problem of hunting on fenced areas in SA. Next time you want to hunt Africa try Namibia where most hunting will be found in true fair chase areas. Yes you can hunt in fenced areas too but most PH's will have access to unfenced hunting.
 

billc

AH legend
Joined
Feb 10, 2011
Messages
3,647
Reaction score
4,150
Location
Pa.
Media
97
Hunting reports
Africa
8
USA/Canada
3
Hunted
united state- Co Nm Mt Wy Pa , canada ,mexico ,south africa- Northwest, Limpopo, freestste.Northern cape,East cape, namibia
does not matter were you hunt a good Ph and one who has long term goals for his area may have you pass animals. I passed on kudu in Namibia also because of age. Could I have maybe forced the issue and taken one of them maybe. For the record glad I did not because I took a mature bull later that week. But when the PH looks at you and tells you it is young we will let him walk you do that. That is in SA or Namibia or zim for that matter.

If we hunt for all the reason we say we do it does not matter what country it is in. Size is only one factor and how mature the animal is counts also.
 

buck wild

Silver supporter
AH elite
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
1,015
Reaction score
1,372
Location
Texas
Media
293
Articles
3
Hunting reports
Africa
4
USA/Canada
1
Member of
SCI Brush Country Chapter
Hunted
Kalahari; Limpopo; Mexico; Texas
On a free range highly managed whitetail hunt here at home i was shown a picture of a young buck named "corkscrew" because of his 12" brow tines. He was off limits because he was only a 2 yr old deer and looked like a spindly teenager with a 160 inch rack. Guess who came rolling into camp with the deer? The camp manager who showed me the picture. The other guides raked him hard for years over that one, he was nearly fired, and they all said, never again. Nothing "off limits". I have seen spectacular animals but most of the "off limits" was because they were breeding or still too young.

One of the reason high fences started ! So if I understand this, a buck with exceptional quality genes was killed at least 2-3 years before his prime because he had bigger than normal antlers (see exceptional quality comment earlier); therefore, it's a free for all of all good young bucks in the future? Not to mention the loss of this one exceptional buck at an early age ?? There would have been no "almost fired" where I come from. Absent it being the landowner themselves, they would have been shown the gate immediately!
 

PeteG

AH elite
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
1,379
Reaction score
1,522
Media
68
Articles
1
Hunting reports
Africa
1
when the PH looks at you and tells you it is young we will let him walk you do that. That is in SA or Namibia or zim for that matter.

If we hunt for all the reason we say we do it does not matter what country it is in. Size is only one factor and how mature the animal is counts also.

This!! This is the most important part of managing any wildlife, whether behind a fence or not.
Even on a free range area a large “trophy” that is too young is not a trophy to be hunted!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
36,697
Messages
695,413
Members
64,386
Latest member
ReggieJust
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Rifle57 wrote on Rimshot's profile.
I bought some bullets from Rimshot and he is good to trade with!
Greetings all! I've been a hunter for 50 years, but only now planning a trip to Africa. I was fortunate and successfully bid on a couple hunts for plains game in SA later this year and next. Also a rare Native Texas (5th generation) and USMC Vet. Hunt safe y'all!
uujm wrote on trg's profile.
I am looking for a Safari Express. Was yours made in New Haven or South Carolina? Any other details you can give me? I am very motivated to buy.
pimes wrote on flatwater bill's profile.
Hello Bill - can you tell me that landowner/ranch/outfitter - Thank you!
Pete0905 wrote on damundsen87's profile.
Hello
Is the Khales 1-6 still for sale?
Thanks
Josh
 
Top