Barnes 150gr 7x57 load data

[rookhawk]

I’ve heard that Barnes has continually reduced the published loads over the past many years out of an abundance of caution. I’m wondering if anyone has the Barnes Bullets volume 1-2-3 load data for 150gr 7x57 so I can compare it to this current data from their site?

 

[sestoppelman]

I only have #4, but the loads are the same as shown above.

 

[SFRanger7GP]

The earlier manuals (1-3) do not address the TSX or TTSX bullets, but the earlier X series bullets. If you call or email Barnes one of the techs will help with load data.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I’ve heard that Barnes has continually reduced the published loads over the past many years out of an abundance of caution. I’m wondering if anyone has the Barnes Bullets volume 1-2-3 load data for 150gr 7x57 so I can compare it to this current data from their site?

View attachment 460199

@rookhawk,

Based on your recent posts, it seems like you're relatively new to hand loading. Assuming this is true, here is my advice to you. I'm not meaning to come across as talking down to you, please don't take it that way.

Don't fight the published data. Understand that this data is for broad purposes, it cannot be taken necessarily as gospel truth to your particular rifle. Having said that, I've never come across a scenario where a minimum load was not safe to shoot in any of my rifles. It's when going the other direction that you may find the data breaks down. The max load listed may be beyond what your rifle dictates is maximum load.

Now I know during these times where all components are hard to come by, you don't want to "waste" a lot of bullets homing in on a load. In spite of this, good load development practices should not be abandoned, you can find yourself if you do.

With a new rifle, I'm cautious and start low, loading up 2 bullets at a time and increment in 0.5gr increments. I pay very close attention to bolt lift after firing and also observe close the spent primers and look for extractor marks on the brass. If I start seeing cratered primers and/or extractor marks, or have sticky bolt lift, it's time to stop.

At the same time I'm watching the two shot groups. Those 2 shot groups will often tell me when I've hit a sweet spot accuracy wise, and this may be at a spot below maximum. It also may be at a spot at the max load listed. You just never know until you've put in the effort. You may in fact be able to go above the max listed and get better accuracy and also not have pressure signs. Only your rifle can tell you that.

I have rifles that shoot better accuracy somewhere between min/max and others that go above maximum. Whatever the case, when I find approximately where that sweet spot is, that's when I start to really home in on the best load for that rifle with 3 shots loaded with the same powder but in a much tighter window of powder load. It's basically a successive approximation method to more quickly home in on the best load with that particular powder/bullet combination.

Long winder answer to your question that you may have not been looking for I know. Bottom line is I use the published data to get me into a safe starting zone. I use the rifle to tell me where maximum is, albeit I may not find out if I first find the best accuracy zone.

I load for accuracy first and foremost. I'll take a 1" group or better at 100fps slower than a 2" group at 100fps faster everyday and twice on Sundays. I only exceed maximum published loads IF accuracy is improving and my rifle is NOT exhibiting high pressure signs. And if I do so, I do so very slowly.

Having had what I guess you may call an "over pressure event" in a rifle years ago, that resulted in a stuck shut bolt, I'm not inclined to ever go there again. It took putting the rifle in a vice, a piece of 2x4 and a hammer to get that bolt opened. And the brass that came out was stuck to the bolt face. Once the brass was pried from the bolt face, it was mighty ugly and the feeling of "Oh shit" that I had......well again, I'm just not inclined to go back there.

 

[rookhawk]

@PHOENIX PHIL thanks for your post. I’m new to “modern reloading” and copper bullets so I was just looking for some data to cross reference against it and other sources.

I was an amateur handloader in my pre-teen years and then again for a few years in my late-20s. I sold off all the gear as I lacked space. I then got back into it as a necessary evil in my 30s just to load that which I could not buy. (E.g. 318WR)

It’s only now that I’m getting back into it with gusto as I have the space and finances to do it correctly. I’m not chasing obscene accuracy as I derive no pleasure from bench shooting. Just trying to ensure properly regulating loads in various calibers for which finding good hunting ammo or light recoiling loads for kids proves a challenge.

 

[rookhawk]

@PHOENIX PHIL so you’re aware of the constraints and considerations that drove my initial post, here’s what’s going on in my head.

1.) I’m completely out of 7x57 ammo.
2.) I need high quality hunting ammo, more concerned with lethality than sub-MOA accuracy
3.) I need the ammo to work in a variety of rifles, so I’m not trying to make a precision load dedicated to one particular rifle.
4.) Going to the range is a serious pain in the ass undertaking in my jurisdiction. Expensive. Far travel. No real easy way to “work up slowly”. I‘m also not pursuing max velocity, so I’m focused on building a load and going with it if possible.

Which brings us to Barnes TTSX loads for 7x57. I found a load that looks appealing to me in the Nosler reloading manual. The starting load is 99% case capacity fill of Reloader 19, a powder that tends to be pretty accurate in 7x57. In the Nosler manual, it also states this starting load was more accurate than the 108% max compressed load.

So I thought I had an “A-ha” moment that I should load up a bunch of these for hunting. The reason I asked about older Barnes data is I wanted to see if their data for monometal copper reflected more conservative data than the Nosler data pictured below out of an abundance of caution. I’d like to load up 50 rounds and call it a day and I dread the notion of pulling a bunch of bullets and dumping powder because I loaded something up that could be conceivably too hot for any of my rifles, even though intending to use starting loads.

And that’s where you’re detecting my naivety and dumb questions. I’m concerned about mixing metaphors when I look at known-good data for traditional lead core bullets and start to apply that data to a copper TTSX where I may find unintended consequences.

To my thinking, a 2605fps 150gr TTSX load from a 7x57 (starting load with RL19 below) should be more than satisfactory to kill any living thing I would use my rifle for in the States or Africa.

 

[sestoppelman]

Remember that Nosler doesnt use Barnes bullets for testing and all bullets behave differently to powder charges.
My Barnes #4 shows 48.5 grs as max for R19 with the TSX 150, for 2603 fps.

 

[rookhawk]

Remember that Nosler doesnt use Barnes bullets for testing and all bullets behave differently to powder charges.
My Barnes #4 shows 48.5 grs as max for R19 with the TSX 150, for 2603 fps.

Thanks @sestoppelman what does it show in #4 for a starting load? 44.5gr or so? 2400fps?

It makes sense that the Barnes would be lower. The copper bullet by volume is more like a 185gr equivalent lead-core so it surely is taking up case capacity that a 150gr lead-core is not.

 

[sestoppelman]

Yes

Thanks @sestoppelman what does it show in #4 for a starting load? 44.5gr or so? 2400fps?

It makes sense that the Barnes would be lower. The copper bullet by volume is more like a 185gr equivalent lead-core so it surely is taking up case capacity that a 150gr lead-core is not.

44 grs for 2391 fps.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

@PHOENIX PHIL so you’re aware of the constraints and considerations that drove my initial post, here’s what’s going on in my head.

1.) I’m completely out of 7x57 ammo.
2.) I need high quality hunting ammo, more concerned with lethality than sub-MOA accuracy
3.) I need the ammo to work in a variety of rifles, so I’m not trying to make a precision load dedicated to one particular rifle.
4.) Going to the range is a serious pain in the ass undertaking in my jurisdiction. Expensive. Far travel. No real easy way to “work up slowly”. I‘m also not pursuing max velocity, so I’m focused on building a load and going with it if possible.

Which brings us to Barnes TTSX loads for 7x57. I found a load that looks appealing to me in the Nosler reloading manual. The starting load is 99% case capacity fill of Reloader 19, a powder that tends to be pretty accurate in 7x57. In the Nosler manual, it also states this starting load was more accurate than the 108% max compressed load.

So I thought I had an “A-ha” moment that I should load up a bunch of these for hunting. The reason I asked about older Barnes data is I wanted to see if their data for monometal copper reflected more conservative data than the Nosler data pictured below out of an abundance of caution. I’d like to load up 50 rounds and call it a day and I dread the notion of pulling a bunch of bullets and dumping powder because I loaded something up that could be conceivably too hot for any of my rifles, even though intending to use starting loads.

And that’s where you’re detecting my naivety and dumb questions. I’m concerned about mixing metaphors when I look at known-good data for traditional lead core bullets and start to apply that data to a copper TTSX where I may find unintended consequences.

To my thinking, a 2605fps 150gr TTSX load from a 7x57 (starting load with RL19 below) should be more than satisfactory to kill any living thing I would use my rifle for in the States or Africa.

View attachment 460296

I can definitely appreciate the constraints. I will just second what @sestoppelman said regarding Nosler info and Barnes bullets. The high pressure event I mentioned in my previous post, it was me having my top side stuck up by bottom side and being too cheap to buy a Barnes manual......using Nosler data as a substitute for Barnes data.....very dumb of me. Just don't do it man.

 

[Nevada Mike]

I never just take a load from a data book and load up a few boxes. I research the load books, then build a ladder on paper, load three rounds of each load, make a label and rubber band it to the three cartridges. I take as amny a 8 or 10 of these load bundles to my range and start from the bottom of the ladder shooting from the bench and taking chrono readings. I inspect the brass, note the chrono speeds, I take the label that was wrapped with the bundle and tape it to the target, noting the speeds for the three rounds. If I get any pressure signs or really objectionable recoil I stop there and note it on the target. Back at the ranch I three hole punch the targets and put them in my load binder with the original paper ladder.

There, on a single piece of paper I have the load, source, velocity and actual 3 shot group on the target. Then I choose the load I like and load a few boxes.

I like an organized approach. Anythiing else just gets me confused }:-O

 

[rnovi]

Hi Mike, I’m not sure you‘ve mentioned what, exactly, you are going to use this load for?

I’m also not sure what rifle you are using this in.

There’s a big difference between say, hunting deer at 50 yards from a tree stand and kudu at 200. And also a big difference between a 100 year old Mauser and a Ruger #1 (or other strong action).

Can you tell us a bit more?

 

[wswolf]

"

I’ve heard that Barnes has continually reduced the published loads over the past many years out of an abundance of caution.

Loads for many cartridges have been reduced not because of an excess of caution but because more accurate pressure testing equipment has become available. Some published loads were found to be excessive when more accurate measurements were made.

My own approach to loading the 7x57, in a modern rifle, was to note that the 7-08 Remington has nearly identical case capacity and use 7-08 data. I worked up loads to not exceed 7-08 velocity with a given powder to ensure that I did not exceed the pressure of published loads. Also there are often more powder choices in the 7-08 data.

With Barnes bullets I have only worked with the 145 LRX. Got excellent accuracy and velocity with StaBall 6.5. With Barnes bullets I would stay with the LRX or TTSX since they expand more reliably at sub-3000fps velocity than the TSX.

With 150 gn Nosler BT, Partitions and Sierra BT IMR4451, Reloder 16 and Reloder 26 were good, in addition to StaBall 6.5.

 

[rookhawk]

Thanks for the good info back and forth, gentlemen. Someone asked what rifle I’m loading for earlier. I hesitate to say because I don’t want max loads for a robust action and fireformed brass, I want off-the-shelf ammo I can use in all my rifles.

Today, I have a 7x57 Dakota model 10. I’ve previously had Mannlicher Schoenaurs and many Mausers of all stripes in this caliber. So I just want to develop a “factory load” for reliable hunting use regardless of action. I’m thinking 2400-2500fps is plenty.

I previously had a case of Sellier & Bellot 7x57 loaded with 175gr Nosler partitions. An obscure CIP imported round in the States they no longer sell. I felt the 150gr ttsx would be an even better performer.

So it leads to the question, what are the protocols for making an “unmarried load” that is for all rifle use rather than a “wedded load” trying to eek out that last drop of accuracy and velocity for a specific rifle?

 

[mdwest]

Not sure if this helps any.. but...

The Nosler chart above shows a max charge of 41gr of IMR 4064 to push a 150gr nosler bullet...

Thats relatively close to what I get the best results out of for Barnes TTSX in 150 gr..

43 gr of IMR 4064 with a federal primer gets me about 2650fps (about the top end of velocity for most modern reloading manuals that you'll find for a 150gr out of a 7x57 without pushing pressure envelopes) and produces MOA results out of my small ring mauser custom..

 

[rnovi]

Ok, so now we’re talking. I have (*well, it’s my wife’s rifle) a K3 in 7x57R, 20” barrel. Super duper handy and light.

TSX’s thrive on velocity…and that’s something a 7x57r isn’t exactly known for. If I was shooting for a “do everything” load, I’d go with some H4350 and the 150gr. Hornady IL (non-premium) or an AccuBond and try to achieve 2500 fps (which is very doable).

In fact, that’s exactly the load I built for her for Africa. 150, 2500 fps. It did exactly what it was supposed to do on Kudu and Warthog.

 

[Nevada Mike]

Hi Mike, I’m not sure you‘ve mentioned what, exactly, you are going to use this load for?

I’m also not sure what rifle you are using this in.

There’s a big difference between say, hunting deer at 50 yards from a tree stand and kudu at 200. And also a big difference between a 100 year old Mauser and a Ruger #1 (or other strong action).

Can you tell us a bit more?

Not sure if you addressing this post to me...

My 7 X 57 is a LH Winchester Model 70 Classic. 23" Krieger barrel. Loading Norma brass. Using a number of different powders, but favor N203B. With a 140 grain Nosler Accubond this powder can produce 2800 + fps.

 

[wswolf]

Thanks for the good info back and forth, gentlemen. Someone asked what rifle I’m loading for earlier. I hesitate to say because I don’t want max loads for a robust action and fireformed brass, I want off-the-shelf ammo I can use in all my rifles.

Today, I have a 7x57 Dakota model 10. I’ve previously had Mannlicher Schoenaurs and many Mausers of all stripes in this caliber. So I just want to develop a “factory load” for reliable hunting use regardless of action. I’m thinking 2400-2500fps is plenty.

I previously had a case of Sellier & Bellot 7x57 loaded with 175gr Nosler partitions. An obscure CIP imported round in the States they no longer sell. I felt the 150gr ttsx would be an even better performer.

So it leads to the question, what are the protocols for making an “unmarried load” that is for all rifle use rather than a “wedded load” trying to eek out that last drop of accuracy and velocity for a specific rifle?

I suggest 150 Nosler Partition or Accubond since they expand reliably at the velocity you desire. TTSX would probably be OK. In either case I would load to the overall cartridge length listed in the manual. Barnes #4 says N550 is he most likely powder. The page copied from the Nosler in your above post has an accuracy load for each powder listed. I would try one of those.