Africa prices?

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Mozambiq

Or tallyho
Can do them

 

[Philip Glass]

So, I’m still making “payments” for my Zambia Hunt last year. I finally got my trophy’s back to the US and made my 50% payment for taxidermy. I really, really want to go back ASAP, but our Zambia hunt wasn’t cheap. I basically paid $18k for a 10 day hunt (hunt and concession fees), I had $12k in trophy fees, plus tips, airfare, etc. The trophy fees included Buff, kudu, waterbuck, puku, and zebra. The trip was booked through a booking agent. I also paid $3600 to get my trophy’s shipped to the US, and then $1500 for the importer to accept, and then ship the trophy’s to the taxidermist in the US.

I know RSA high fence can be a lot less money, but what about other country’s without fences? Can you save money booking directly through an outfitter? What about 7 day vs 10 day hunts? Do you have to use an importer? Basically, is there a way to hunt Africa without my wife divorcing me for spending $50k again?

If you hunt the right properties the fence does not matter. What difference is there in a fenced 100,000ac property versus a non fenced 100,000ac property. What you are asking For is a good hunt at a fair price. That can be had. A booking agent does not cost you any money. A 10 day hunt is much better in every respect. The PG hunt I was on most recently was $7500/10Days/12 Animals. Yes you can do it!

 

[Vintageguy]

You might look it up. There’s merit to it and the idea behind economy of scale, lower margin, high volume sales.

Agree. I don’t see the Safari business any different than any other if there is competition for hunters then price point has to play. RSA is a prime example of competition at work. If you could just charge twice as much for the same thing the next are offering at half you’re going to be lonely at the fire at night. The more expensive safaris have to deliver an experience that justifies the hgher price.

 

[VonJager]

US dollar inflation is only about %20 between 2014 to 2023.
I can understand the price increase of %30 even %40 but..
There's no justification of increasing prices %60-65.
But I guess that's what makes a market.

Your inflation calculator is not set correctly. You have to take out the govt bullshit.

If you look around almost everything is at least 50% from 2014, and many things are 100%.

Govt uses electronics to bring down the formula. I buy a lot more milk and eggs than I do new televisions.

Ymmv

 

[Blaserman]

I wanted to Do Water fowl hunting
Outfitter wanted to cjharge me 4600$ for 3 days Plus daily rate
His five animal package went from 5900 last year to 8900 this year

 

[rookhawk]

A booking agent does not cost you any money. A 10 day hunt is much better in every respect. The PG hunt I was on most recently was $7500/10Days/12 Animals. Yes you can do it!

One of the universal truths of economics is this:”there is no cost incurred anywhere in the supply chain that the consumer does not ultimately pay”.

The reason I do not like booking agents is their incentives are not aligned to my own. This is similar to hiring a financial advisor for a flat-fee of $500 per hour. Few people want to do that, so they get raked over the coals by a “free“ one that sells annuities and loaded funds at tremendous commission rates.

The best booking agent you can find is a trustworthy friend that has been there and done that. Word of mouth is the very best way to root out the best hunts. Buying direct, you’ve cut out a middleman that is typically more interested in getting his free hunts subsidized by his referral side hustle.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Agree. I don’t see the Safari business any different than any other if there is competition for hunters then price point has to play. RSA is a prime example of competition at work. If you could just charge twice as much for the same thing the next are offering at half you’re going to be lonely at the fire at night. The more expensive safaris have to deliver an experience that justifies the hgher price.

Exactly, it’s amazing what’s 5, 10, 15, or even a 20% drop or increase in price can do to ones turns. It all depends on cost and margins.

In the sod example above, if he wants to charge $100 per pallet vs 2 @ $50, the guy at $50 might only make $10 a pallet to his $60 but that same guy should be outselling him at least 10:1 (likely more). That guys has now made $100 vs his $60.

I’m not arguing everyone race to the bottom and make nothing, but if someone has the ability to slash their prices by 50%, be significantly lower than their competition and still make margin to stay in business they’ll take a lot of market share, likely more than that can handle. Stack it deep, sell it cheap.

Now cheap, isn’t always the best especially with regards to hunting. Just look at all the comments and differing opinions on a specific outfitter in RSA from earlier in the year.

 

[Philip Glass]

One of the universal truths of economics is this:”there is no cost incurred anywhere in the supply chain that the consumer does not ultimately pay”.

The reason I do not like booking agents is their incentives are not aligned to my own. This is similar to hiring a financial advisor for a flat-fee of $500 per hour. Few people want to do that, so they get raked over the coals by a “free“ one that sells annuities and loaded funds at tremendous commission rates.

The best booking agent you can find is a trustworthy friend that has been there and done that. Word of mouth is the very best way to root out the best hunts. Buying direct, you’ve cut out a middleman that is typically more interested in getting his free hunts subsidized by his referral side hustle.

For PG hunts in RSA and Namibia I don't think an agent is necessary. When I go to places like Cameroon, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan (hopefully soon) you better believe I'll be using a US agent like The Hunting Consortium.

 

[rookhawk]

For PG hunts in RSA and Namibia I don't think an agent is necessary. When I go to places like Cameroon, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan (hopefully soon) you better believe I'll be using a US agent like The Hunting Consortium.

All well and good, but it isn't free. It's 15% to 33% of the hunt booking price. Your argument is like saying when I buy a house, if I call a local realtor to show me homes, "its free". It's not free, their 3% buy-side commission goes into the total cost.

I'm not saying expert advice is bad, its just not free.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Lon, did they all pay the retail price for DG daily rate. Was there a break. Or since the same amount of PH’s, trucks, food and staff are needed. Full daily rates.

We consider all of hunts to be at the best possible price. A 20% profit margin is what we try to operate at. Due to some unexpected costs on this hunt we operated at 18%. A second unscheduled croc was taken. We did discount the second croc by $500.00 that accounted for 1%.

Lon

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

I wasn’t much cheaper in Zim, solo hunter, 12 days, 9 animals

We are a Zimbabwe operator, what were the 9 animals.

Lon

 

[revturbo9967]

We are a Zimbabwe operator, what were the 9 animals.

Lon

Buff,croc,hippo,waterbuck,bushbuck,zebra,2 impala and baboon.

 

[rookhawk]

Here is an idea of a group hunt that we recently completed for three foreign hunters.

3 hunters
2 elephant
1 hippo
2 crocodile
1 hyena
Tiger Fishing

$47,000 inc. gun rental and ammunition
Includes pick up return Vic Falls

Lon

Let’s break down the math with my crude estimates:

2 elephant @$12000 each = $24,000
1 hippo @$6000
2 croc @$4500 each = $9000
1 hyena @$1000

Total trophy fees = $40,000

Tiger fishing for 3, plus 14 days dangerous game daily rates for 3 men for $10,000? That’s $238 per guy, per day for daily rate with free transport to/from airport (that should be more) and tiger fishing (that should be more).

Sounds like a pretty darned good deal to me. You certainly couldn’t do that in RSA on a Ranch for anywhere near that price, and of course no tiger fishing either.

 

[Doubleplay]

Your inflation calculator is not set correctly. You have to take out the govt bullshit.

If you look around almost everything is at least 50% from 2014, and many things are 100%.

Govt uses electronics to bring down the formula. I buy a lot more milk and eggs than I do new televisions.

Ymmv

You're mistaken with the prices when Covid hit.

They came down a long way and actually has nothing to with outfitters increasing prices.


Egg prices 2014 : $2.02 / 2024: $2.52. (% 24 increase.)

Milk Prices 2014: $3.69 / 2024: $ 4.36 (% 18 increase.)

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Here is an idea of a group hunt that we recently completed for three foreign hunters.

3 hunters
2 elephant
1 hippo
2 crocodile
1 hyena
Tiger Fishing

$47,000 inc. gun rental and ammunition
Includes pick up return Vic Falls

Lon

I’m going to have to look you up next year for some hunting. Prices look very reasonable to me.

HH

 

[MarkB]

When I look at Namibia and SA safari, TF and daily rate prices I say wow. In 2021 in SA I even spoke to my PH/Outfitter about this on a road move as I could not see profit with my daily rate and TF he charged. He said "leave the business end to me" so I stopped trying to figure it out.

What has increased going on a safari is EVERYTHING else. Flights, hotels before/after, D&P, shipping, and taxidermy supplies as I mount my own. These new increases have raised the overall safari bill considerable.

BUT

Safari is still much less than a guided hunt for almost any species in NA. You get more species, new experience, more fun and who does not love the sounds, smells, food and people of Africa.

MB

 

[Philip Glass]

All well and good, but it isn't free. It's 15% to 33% of the hunt booking price. Your argument is like saying when I buy a house, if I call a local realtor to show me homes, "its free". It's not free, their 3% buy-side commission goes into the total cost.

I'm not saying expert advice is bad, its just not free.

You are wrong. The price you get from a booking agent is the same price you get booking direct. This is of course unless you are dealing with unscrupulous people. Then who knows.

 

[rookhawk]

You are wrong. The price you get from a booking agent is the same price you get booking direct. This is of course unless you are dealing with unscrupulous people. Then who knows.

We seem to discuss this concept with a bit of frequency. I'm fine for differing opinions, but we're operating on different facts. I'll repeat a fact: "There is no cost incurred to provide any good or service that isn't ultimately paid by the consumer".

I know that booking agents make 15%-33% commission. Where does that money come from? Answer: The operator. And where does the operator get the money to pay that commission? Answer: The consumer.

You might have the opinion that costs padded into an item are "free", but they aren't. The "Free undercoating" and "Free installation" and "free extended warranty" are all things the consumer ultimately pays for.

I would not pay for a hunt where the price is the same with a booking agent or without, because that tells me that I'm overpaying for a service I do not want, which is sort of a monopolistic/anti-trust/anti-competition line I do not wish to cross. (a compulsory booking agent) I like to hunt more often, so I cut out middlemen and deal directly with operators that pass on their cost savings to me.

 

[Hunt anything]

When researching my first hunt in 2014 all of the agents I talked to said the cost was the same whether I booked through them or directly with the outfitter. They would be paid the deposit and forward it to the outfitter and be the go between of anything went sideways. I didn’t ask how they were paid but I used them as I was new to booking international hunts. On my subsequent 4 trips I’ve done the booking myself but if I can ever afford a trip to a more exotic destination like Cameroon, Ethiopia or Uganda I will go the booking agent route.

 

[revturbo9967]

I’d be inclined to believe there is markup somewhere because I have seen different prices advertised by an agent vs booking directly. Maybe it’s a small amount, but I’ve seen it a few times .