9x57...Can it be rechambered to 35 Whelen to safely use .358 bullets?

[xausa]

As far as bore diameter is concerned, the important factor is case neck dimension. If a .358" bullet will pass easily into the neck of a fired .35 Whelen case, then no problem. I have shot .510" bullets in my .505 SRE for decades and never had a complaint from the elephants, buffalo and the rhino I dispatched with it. No pressure problems. The difficulty lies in a situation where the neck is too thick to release the bullet while the pressure is building in the chamber, with no relief in the form of an expanding volume of barrel behind the bullet.

In a .458 WM, the volume doubles when the bullet moves the length of the cartridge down the barrel, reducing the chamber pressure accordingly. The bullet, once it has moved the length of its contact area with the barrel, is now swaged to the proper dimension. It's the situation where the bullet is unable to move, because the mouth of the case cannot release it, which causes the real problem.

I suggest going ahead with the rechambering job and then test firing with an undersized (pistol) bullet. If a .358" diameter bullet passes easily into the unsized fired case mouth, then your problem is solved and you can use .358" bullets with impunity. If the bullet fits only with difficulty, then a bullet swage or a neck reamer/neck turner would be the answer, assuming the neck thickness would not be reduced below .012". If you form your .35 Whelen cases from .30-'06 brass, the chances are slim that neck thickness would be a problem.

 

[Milan]

Ha. That is interesting. Thank you!
So if re-chambered to 35 Whelen, the reamer should cut the neck enough as per 35 Whelen (which uses .358 bullet) spec, no?

 

[Milan]

Rechambering from 9x57 to 35 Whelen should be possible.
If you have a glance on the dimensions

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page67.pdf

https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-i/tabical-en-page137.pdf

it should be possible. The 35 Whelen exceeds the 9x57 in all relevant dimensions.

What has to be taken into account is a different maximum pressure (2800 vs. 4000 bar!). If its an original K98 action the higher pressure should be no issue.

Slight differences in grooves and twist should be also no big issue...

Well...That's why I started the topic. re-chambering is relatively easy and should work no problem. I was more worried about the groove diameter difference. But it looks like it should work. The rifling twists should be similar. I have not checked this barrel but if it is slightly faster than 1-16, it should be good for the heavier bullets.

However, the expense, wait time and work needed just to make it a 35 Whelen may not be worth it unless I have a buyer for it. Same with the 9x57 (no work or $$ needed, but would need a buyer). Unfortunately here there are not many people buying these. And if I'm to keep it for myself (which was the reason for buying the action in the first place), or have better chance to sell it, I should probably re-barrel to 9.3x62. So that is what I'm leaning towards right now. But we will see what happens in the end.

I do appreciate all the input though, so if there is more or if this topic is of interest, keep the ideas coming.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Well...That's why I started the topic. re-chambering is relatively easy and should work no problem. I was more worried about the groove diameter difference. But it looks like it should work. The rifling twists should be similar. I have not checked this barrel but if it is slightly faster than 1-16, it should be good for the heavier bullets.

However, the expense, wait time and work needed just to make it a 35 Whelen may not be worth it unless I have a buyer for it. Same with the 9x57 (no work or $$ needed, but would need a buyer). Unfortunately here there are not many people buying these. And if I'm to keep it for myself (which was the reason for buying the action in the first place), or have better chance to sell it, I should probably re-barrel to 9.3x62. So that is what I'm leaning towards right now. But we will see what happens in the end.

I do appreciate all the input though, so if there is more or if this topic is of interest, keep the ideas coming.

@Milan
I personally would leave it as is and load it to modern pressures ( if the action is strong enough) and have a ball with it. As I said previously it's every bit the equal of the 358 Winchester which is just a baby Whelen. You will be pleasantly surprised at what it can do.
It's a wonder @MS 9x56 hasn't put his 2 cents in as well as he is a 9mm/35 loony as well.
Save money leave it as is and have fun. It's also a great conversation starter around the camp fire.
Bob

 

[Milan]

@Milan
I personally would leave it as is and load it to modern pressures ( if the action is strong enough) and have a ball with it. As I said previously it's every bit the equal of the 358 Winchester which is just a baby Whelen. You will be pleasantly surprised at what it can do.
It's a wonder @MS 9x56 hasn't put his 2 cents in as well as he is a 9mm/35 loony as well.
Save money leave it as is and have fun. It's also a great conversation starter around the camp fire.
Bob

I would agree but the problem is leaving it is the most expensive option. Even if I use 8x57 brass, I'd have to buy the dies. $150 CAD minimum if I can find them. I may give that a go though. No work required. and would make a nice camping gun I guess.

 

[MS 9x56]

I can attest the 9mm metric are meat making guns. Work great on whitails and hogs so fa for me. I use 200 grain round nose on deer and 250 grain round nose on hogs. Have yet to recover a bullet and I am good with that. If you weren’t in Canada I would have made an offer.

 

[MS 9x56]

I would agree but the problem is leaving it is the most expensive option. Even if I use 8x57 brass, I'd have to buy the dies. $150 CAD minimum if I can find them. I may give that a go though. No work required. and would make a nice camping gun I guess.

Not sure about Canada but in the US I can garauntee you would be the only one in camp with one. I really enjoy using these old rifles for their intended purpose. Happy hunting.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I would agree but the problem is leaving it is the most expensive option. Even if I use 8x57 brass, I'd have to buy the dies. $150 CAD minimum if I can find them. I may give that a go though. No work required. and would make a nice camping gun I guess.

@Milan
Have a look at midsouth shooters supplies

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I can attest the 9mm metric are meat making guns. Work great on whitails and hogs so fa for me. I use 200 grain round nose on deer and 250 grain round nose on hogs. Have yet to recover a bullet and I am good with that. If you weren’t in Canada I would have made an offer.

@MS 9x56
I can see a drive up to Canada in your future to pick it up.
Problem solved.
Maybe you could get a set of dies at a reasonable price to sell @Milan and he can have the same joy as you get.
I can also see the two of you sitting around a camp fire with your respective 9x57s discussing the merits of it.
Bob

 

[Milan]

Ha! You guys are horrible.

Yes being up north here makes it a bit more difficult to access the US market these days. Just yesterday I was looking at Redding website thinking, maybe I will just get dies. I did not buy the RCBS set with the rifle. Should have. But whatever. I also checked midsouth. They do ship internationally unlike Midway or Brownell's but luckily they're out of stock.

It is a 1922-23 commercial Oberndorf Mauser. I spent hours completely taking it apart and cleaning everything. Stock is not original but a home made job, trigger has been modified, bolt handle polished, receiver drilled an tapped in the rear for peep sight, etc. So not all perfectly original but functional, thus I'm OK with a re-chamber or re-barrel. Really re-barrel to locally common enough caliber (30-06, 7x57, 8x57, 9.3x62 or 280 or 7x64) is easy enough and will not cost me anything (maybe chambering job to 280/7x64). Then I can shoot it and see if I like it or if I should sell it and selling here at that point should be easier. I can always include the original barrel with it for the "weirdo" that wants to fiddle.

@MS 9x56 , thanks for all the info and your kind offer to buy if you were here. I do believe there are no flies on that cartridge and if I did not have all the others I would totally just load for it. Loading for just one and hunting with it is fine and makes sense but I'm really trying to curb my illness and dwindle the gun safe content rather than expand it. If you do come up, I believe all we will need is import permit on your end and permanent export permit based on your import permit on my end. If I decide to sell, you can have dibs on it. As it is it's more of a dilemma as to which to sell and which to keep as sale does need to happen.

 

[Longwalker]

I had a nice old Mauser "small ring" rifle in 9x57. I shot it with some equally old Kynoch ammo to test function and performance with factory loads, then put together handloads using Hornady .358" 250 Gr. RN bullets run through a simple Lee push through swage die for .357" pistol bullets. Loaded them into 8x57 cases run thought the full length size die with no other changes. I don't remember my loads exactly, but it was no trick to match factory load specs and accuracy, and certainly function through the rifle was just as good. And very similar in ballistics to the .358 Win. It wasn't difficult and did not require any exotic loading techniques. At first I turned all the cases necks to a uniform and thinner thickness, but that was not necessary after i gained experience. So maybe your rifle could be brought to life with a minimum of trouble.
I would still have that rifle if I did not have over lap in function and form in other rifles chambered in 8x57IS, .356 Win, .35 whelen, 9.3x62, etc.

 

[Milan]

@Longwalker Thank you. I agree and am glad you confirm that reloading for it can be done relatively easily. But like you, I have 8x57IS and 9.3x62 so no need for an in between caliber. I'm currently figuring out what stock to put on it. Have old military K98 laminate chopped up so may used that in the interim and if by the time I will have bought dies for it, I may try loading it. But most likely the barrel will come off and some other one will go on. Maybe 9.3x62. I can always keep the original barrel to sell with the rifle to the guy that would prefer the old cartridge.

 

[MS 9x56]

All you 35 Whelen fans (and yes Bob that means you )...do you know if this can be done as easily as reaming out the 9x57 chamber?

Seems to me that according to SAAMI specs .35 Whelen groove diameter is .357 (9.07) and we push .358 (9.09) bullets through it... right? The CIP 9x57 is supposedly .3574 (9.08) bullets through .3566 (9.06) grooves. Yet throat is supposedly 9.15 and my barrel at muzzle seems to measure at 9.125 (if I can trust myself and the simple caliper). Is the slight difference in groove diameter safely negligible to push .358 (9.09) bullets through that .3566 (9.06) groove barrel?

Also, is this worth it or should I "preserve" the 9? Anybody in Canada want 9x57?

I don't need another obsolete caliber and maybe I should sell the darn thing to someone who likes such stuff. Being in Canada, such market seems smaller than in the USA. While we have crazies that load whatever, obscure components and obscure dies are harder to find. Last time I even read of anyone inquiring about 9x57 was 2018. My additional problem is that, while .35 Whelen is nice, I don't even want that as I already have a 9.3x62, so I have too many calibers to begin with.

Why would you want to ruin a perfectly good 9x57? Keep it and buy yourself a 1903 in 35 Whelen as it was invented to be. You can never have too many 35's.

 

[Milan]

Well I did not “ruin” it but the barrel is off, action was cleaned and is ready for anither barrel. Either 8x57 or 9.3x62. Keeping it simple by not purchasing more dies, bullets, etc. Just like the Whelen, can never have too many 7x57, 8x57 or 9.3x62 rifles.