Discussion in 'Articles' started by JustinC, Aug 23, 2016.
That's good. Captive lions do have an advantage so it's only fair to give them their own category.
Captive-bred lions are genetically inferior, kind of like the American mustang or the African zebra are such superior mounts to those equines "breed in captivity". They'll be winning the derby in no time.
I'm afraid Tallgrasshunter is right, Tigris 115. You need to remember that, or you will start to think captive bred anything might actually have some merit.
Oops, I think sarcasm is contagious!
Right on Charlie!
+1 on that
So Johnny we need to win the lotto man!
I have a family of antis and they all speak fluent sarcasm. They all eat meat but when you put some freshly shot game in front of them noses get turned up. I guess beef, lamb, chicken and pork comes as you find it in the shops!!
If everything stated in this article was as accurate and as "rosy" as it is made out to be, we (hunters, people on the fence and people who support hunting but don't hunt) would not have such varied views on captive bred lions in SA. This is a contentious issue and this did not come about by accident! I will give SAPA credit for making some headway in "cleaning up the house" and setting breeding and husbandry standards etc. Blood Lions had a huge impact on people mostly from the urbanized world. It was a full blown attack on all hunting, they cleverly used the "canned lions" as their coup de grace. They stooped so low, to the point where they actually attacked the Afrikaner race (Boer) which was the most disgusting tactic I have ever witnessed! At last years PHASA Annual General Meeting (Pro Hunters Ass of SA) members voted in favour of "distancing themselves from captive bred lions" until such time as they (SAPA and people who breed and hunt these lions) can prove to PHASA and the IUCN that captive bred lion hunting and breeding contributes to the conservation of the species. (i don't recall the exact wording but this should be close enough)
Personally, I think it's the concept of raising and hunting an apex predator that's off putting. You never really hear anyone getting mad at the ranching and hunting of things like deer and antelope. Of all the stories I read, people only seem to get angry at either giant charismatic megafauna such as elephants, rhinos, etc. or predators like large cats and canids. Lions especially have a level of reverence in our culture ever since the days of antiquity.
isnt killing a captive bred lion and not a wild one contributing to the wild species??? and as far as fair chase goes,if its not in a squeeze chute and has enough room to get away or kill you isnt that the same as what you experience in a wild hunt,except maybe the captive lion is not as afraid of humans as the wild one is and might stand a better chance at collecting you as its trophy ???just a thought.
Difference it takes an elephant 30-40 years to reach a decent size to hunt. Yet again the fact of lions bred for hunting will divide hunters, we should never as hunters let this happen. We all have our ethics and should be allowed to hunt if legal. I dislike a lot of sable hunts that are being offered, but you will never see me breaking down those hunts, the only time I will lose my cool is when a PH tells a client it's a mature animal, but you can see it's far off being mature.
Fully agree with you Simon.
Totally agree with Simon @TMS. Hunters have to stick together- while practicing their own ethics, without forcing those ethics on others, within the limits of the law.
Its also interesting to see how what's "ethical" changes depending on where you're from, how you were raised, and over time.
As an example, most wild lions these days are hunted over bait. Historically, that was considered a less ethical hunt than on foot (ranch lions in the Kalahari) and other techniques:
From White Hunters: The Golden Age of African Safaris by Brian Herne:
"Lion hunting was considered not only a sport but a necessity in the territory to protect livestock. In those days lions were often hunted at night over kills used as bait, or miserably poisoned or trapped. Such lowly methods were legal, but regarded with contempt by any self-respecting hunter."
Here's something else I noticed. Every time people talk about the stats on lion hunting, they always have to point out that the majority of hunters come from the United States. Not only that, but they say it in such a disgusted and condescending way like a bald eagle took a crap in their corn flakes. I find that attitude very insulting.
Agreed! It does seem like if I was a British or German or Spanish hunter, there would be far less outcry.
It may just be an indicator of a more global sentiment of general dislike of Americans. I don't know.
Not necessarily American problem!
I follow my local daily news, and I always check the general public comments below the online news when related to hunting.
95% comments by non-hunters are very negative. Sometimes it goes to extremes - but in any case the hunters are always guilty by default.
For example, if there is shooting accident with two hunters involved, one ends up wounded or worse - the comments are supportive in the way that they should shoot each other more often. And no sympathy shown for the families, either.
Or, when wild boars start making damages to the crops, and in the suburbs, the hunters are again guilty, although in some cases they are not allowed to shoot near urban areas. This time they are guilty for not-shooting.
Or, when a hunter kills a stray dog in legal hunting grounds, and it gets to the news for some reason, then sh@$%t-storm goes again, with negative public comments.
I am no longer surprised by negative comments from public in urban areas.
However, rural areas are more supportive with better understanding.
Analyzing this, I beleive that it comes for understanding the nature and ecosystems, and people in rural areas, having their own farms understand this much better, then city folks. This is my view on educational stand point on general public.
However, there is a sociological point as well:
If the country, or some local area has a tradition of warriors, hunters, or martial arts - the pressure on hunters will be far less, then in other social environments.
According to the greenies there has never been a successful release and there is no scientific benefit to these animals, but what made me have a look here is that they are trying to stop the exportation of lion cubs to a Australian zoo "so that they can roam free in Africa". Well then, is anyone ells seeing the irony of it all.
I tell you what I would love to do..... sit down one of these know it all journalists, equip them with a fully loaded AR... not legal in Africa BTW... and drop them in a lion enclosure, like a zoo. Just to exaggerate things. I guarantee they would shit their draws before any shots fired..... now turn those smug, smarmy pricks into the wild.... LOL.... fetal position for sure!!!!
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