8x64 Brenneke....Who has one ?

Yes, I'm trying to work out if there's any advantage in the 8x64 over my 8-06 Imp. or do I use the 9.3x64 case and neck it down....

Roger

I just found an identical thread by Sestoppelman...
If you use the 9,3x64 case and neck down you get 8mm Màzon , a Spanish wildcat .
 
The 8x64 would be your most simplistic option if you are wanting to convert an existing rifle, otherwise you are looking at magazine and stock work for the larger cartridges with their larger case heads. I think it would be a great choice personally.
 
My mate has a 8x64 and 9.3x64 in zastava i think. He uses the Tugs . Id say performance is as better than the 220gr woodleigh out of my 3006 but not much difference in killing power.

The 9.3x64 though is on a different level.
 
Here is CIP’s cartridge dimensions for both the 8X64s and the 9.3X64. I also added SAAMI’s for the 30-06. These should help you figure things out.
 

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8x68S in a std action would be a squeeze. I have a Brno 602 square bridge in 8x68S the oal would require serious modifications in a standard 98
 
I’ve attached an article by Jack Lott on William Brenneke. It’s fascinating reading if you’ve interested.
 

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8x68S in a std action would be a squeeze. I have a Brno 602 square bridge in 8x68S the oal would require serious modifications in a standard 98
Most of the originals were built on standard actions, though you are right, it’s quite the squeeze.
IMG_7420.jpeg

IMG_7419.jpeg
 
8x68S in a std action would be a squeeze. I have a Brno 602 square bridge in 8x68S the oal would require serious modifications in a standard 98
8x68S has OAL of 3.425" while 404 Jeffery is 5.35" long. 404 fits into a standard 98 Mauser after opening the bolt face, changing the extractor claw, moving the loading ramp forward, widening and lengthening the bottom metal, and of course modifying feeding rails. No need to move the ejector or carve away locking ring (e.g. fitting 375 or 416 Rigby in standard 98 action). I guess it depends on what one defines as "significant". As I understand it, bolt face on 8x68S would not require opening, the extractor would also be unchanged, and I doubt the loading ramp would need to be moved much if at all. Would not need to touch locking ring or ejector. Some modification would obviously be needed to bottom metal to handle the wider shoulder. Not a big deal.
Edit: Probably little if no modification needed for bottom metal. The 8x68S has a narrower shoulder than 30-06 which is easily fitted into standard 98 Mauser. The 30-06 has a slightly shorter OAL, just 0.08". And 8mm Mauser is slightly shorter than 30-06: 3.228" vs 3.34" 30-06 vs 3.425" OAL for 8x68S. I would not hesitate to build one of these on a standard 98 Mauser. It would be a fun project for a beginner. The cartridge does have a rebated rim but so slight that I suspect little probability of encountering the usual feeding issues.
 
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8x68S has OAL of 3.425" while 404 Jeffery is 5.35" long. 404 fits into a standard 98 Mauser after opening the bolt face, changing the extractor claw, moving the loading ramp forward, widening and lengthening the bottom metal, and of course modifying feeding rails. No need to move the ejector or carve away locking ring (e.g. fitting 375 or 416 Rigby in standard 98 action). I guess it depends on what one defines as "significant". As I understand it, bolt face on 8x68S would not require opening, the extractor would also be unchanged, and I doubt the loading ramp would need to be moved much if at all. Would not need to touch locking ring or ejector. Some modification would obviously be needed to bottom metal to handle the wider shoulder. Not a big deal.
Edit: Probably little if no modification needed for bottom metal. The 8x68S has a narrower shoulder than 30-06 which is easily fitted into standard 98 Mauser. The 30-06 has a slightly shorter OAL, just 0.08". And 8mm Mauser is slightly shorter than 30-06: 3.228" vs 3.34" 30-06 vs 3.425" OAL for 8x68S. I would not hesitate to build one of these on a standard 98 Mauser. It would be a fun project for a beginner. The cartridge does have a rebated rim but so slight that I suspect little probability of encountering the usual feeding issues.
Further edit and correction: 8x68S OAL is 0.2" longer than 8mm Mauser (for whom standard action 98 Mauser was designed). A standard action 8mm 98 Mauser can be upgraded to 30-06 without modifying bottom metal even though 30-06 has 0.11" longer OAL. So there is plenty of room lengthwise in the magazine box. Much longer 404 cartridge can eject from 98 Mauser without carving into the locking ring so the ejection/loading port is plenty long enough without modification for 8x68S. Like the 404, the 8x68S has gently sloping shoulder. This allows for smoother feeding with cartridges that are pushing the envelope for OAL in a standard 98 action. The point at which the cartridge jumps the rails fully onto the bolt face can be moved forward because the case shoulder is less likely to catch on the loading ramp and/or bullet tip get hung up hitting the top of the chamber. If the jump point to bolt face has to be pulled back to accommodate a sharp shoulder, then the probability increases for cartridges to come out of the rails prematurely before the bolt face is engaged and/or bullet end started into chamber = loose cartridge falling out of the gun during cycling. With its gently sloping shoulder and much shorter OAL, the 8x68S would be a much easier build on standard action than 404J. Not having to change the bolt face and extractor is icing on the cake. The result is a gun with lots of poop that's equally as versatile as 375. Interesting that my source says it is legal for dangerous game in Namibia if loaded up with sufficient pressure. Too bad ammo and components are so difficult to obtain.
 
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Yes, I'm trying to work out if there's any advantage in the 8x64 over my 8-06 Imp. or do I use the 9.3x64 case and neck it down....

Roger

I just found an identical thread by Sestoppelman...
different cartridges entirely.
8-06= 8x63S in metric lingo , less volume as a 8x 64S, \ a bit of a shorter neck for all practical purposes and a bit reamer dependent.
fireforming the 8x64 S from 30-06 brass is a 2 step affair as the shoulder gets blown forward a bit.
shoulder is at 55.9 mm or 2.19" in the 8x64s versus at 52.5 mm or 2.067"
using 9x3x62 brass is easier. ( shoulder is at 2.13" already)
Screenshot 2024-09-02 at 8.32.55 PM.png

Screenshot 2024-09-02 at 8.41.01 PM.png

8x64 S Brenneke

12.00 mm=0.472" for base diameter in both
sorry for the mix of metric and imperial in the pictures.


9.3x64 =unbelted magnum case
Screenshot 2024-09-02 at 8.33.57 PM.png

there is an 8 mm wildcat on this case, called the 8mm Mazon

0.496 slghtly rebated rim=12.598 mm, very different



just to clarify the basics.

If I were in need of something a little more powerful than a 8x57 in north america, I'd just ream to an 8-06. if a lot more power is desired you pick 8x68, 325 WSM or 8mm Rem.
cheers!
 
9.3X64 Brenneke cases are a unique size and difficult to find. I have 4 boxes of RWS for mine that I bought years ago. Beretta Australia do currently list them though.
PRC or RUM based wildcat might be easier to source brass.
For 9,3x64 Brenneke go to SHM Hulsen from Germany, they are great and Ulrich is a great guy.

When I was at university and I didn't buy a Zkk in 8x64 of mine biggest regrets about hunting ang guns.
I am still looking for another one
 
Hmmm.....Decisions, decisions !!....Keep the info and opinions coming, this is all very interesting!

Roger
 
Not to be argumentative, but some of the specs given for cartridge dimensions were a bit off. The 8x68 shoulder is definitely not smaller than an 06, and does require opening the standard Mauser bolt face. Here is one next to an 8x64 for comparison.
IMG_7503.jpeg
 

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