6.5x55 - 140 Grain Reload Velocity?

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk.
I'm not saying your wrong but none of my manuals list 2 different loading nor does Wayne blackells load from a disc. Just differ manual I thinks.
Bob

Hi Bob,

American manuals recognize only the SAAMI spec. So a hornady, nosler, IMR, Hodgdon, Speer, et al loading manual will only have that.

If you look at an RWS, Norma, Vihta Vuori European loading manual you'll see the two different types of loads. (Based not on SAAMI, but on CIP loading standards)

 

[ZG47]

It is my understanding that the SAAMI cartridge has a slightly shorter headspace. It is worth noting that CIP refused to accept Hornady 6.5x55 Swedish (i.e. SAAMI) dies. Hornady had to make 6.5x55 SE (i.e. C.I.P. compliant) dies which they market as 6.5x55 Skan dies! See my earlier (No 17) reply to this thread. It is good to see the positive way in which this thread continues to develop.
If you want to buy U.S. made C.I.P. dies, other than Hornady-made, the obvious maker is Redding. They are also the go-to guys if you want to buy .22 Hornet dies as opposed to what I call .224 Hornet dies.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I talked to a guy in SA who has a youtube channel, and he and his buddy shoot 260 Rem. He swears he's getting 3K fps with 130 gr Berger VLD hunters with no signs of over-pressure. The 6.5 tapers more (wider at base, narrower at the bottom of the shoulder) than a 308 Win case, but it is 4 mm longer. If he's really getting 3K fps (Tikka T3 Varmint), I wonder if he really knows what signs of over-pressure actually look like.

These guys have some interesting loads for 6.5x55SE: http://www.realguns.com/loads/655mmswede.htm. Their published velocities don't quite jive with IRL experience of another guy on this board (I'll let him announce if he wants).

I worked some 143 gr ELD-X/IMR-4831 loads up, to a little past hornady's published max, and shot them yesterday (Tikka T3 hunter). Been sort of busy since I got home from the range yesterday, but I'll put my calipers to the over-boosted brass and check the deltas between factory hornady brass and the other within-normal-limits loads I worked on. I'll let you guys know, but I don't expect to see anything unusual. Extraction certainly felt like the other brass, and there was no primer deformation or any other obvious indicators of over-pressure.

@Sgt Zim
Those Berger VLDs have a small bearing surface. Those velocities you said may be possible but as you said at what cost.
The worst I have seen was at the range a gent was using his brand new sako with new box of sellier and bellot factory ammo. Shot one was fine but the second shot something went horribly wrong. The bolt had to be hammered open with a lump of 2x4 and the primer was smeared on the base of the cartridge and that started to flow into the ejector.
He has since had the rifle checked and all is fine but that box of ammo ended up in a dam.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Welcome 6.5 x 55. Your post corroborates my findings. I have been advocating for my load of 46.5 Gr. of H4350 pushing 140 Gr. bullets at 2775 fps for almost 2 years with very little success. My reload was the one used by Nathan Foster a noted long distance hunter from New Zealand. Where did you get yours from or did you just work it up yourself? My rifle is an 1896 Swedish Mauser with a 24 " barrel having a twist rate of 1/7.8 inches. Have you tried any all copper bullets, if so whose and what weight?

@Shootist43
What projectiles are you using Art.
My mate Greg has just bought a Howa 6.5x 55. Do you have any good loads for a 130 gn you could P M me please.
Bob

 

[machinistbutler]

It is my understanding that the SAAMI cartridge has a slightly shorter headspace. It is worth noting that CIP refused to accept Hornady 6.5x55 Swedish (i.e. SAAMI) dies. Hornady had to make 6.5x55 SE (i.e. C.I.P. compliant) dies which they market as 6.5x55 Skan dies! See my earlier (No 17) reply to this thread. It is good to see the positive way in which this thread continues to develop.
If you want to buy U.S. made C.I.P. dies, other than Hornady-made, the obvious maker is Redding. They are also the go-to guys if you want to buy .22 Hornet dies as opposed to what I call .224 Hornet dies.

I think my Sauer barrel is marked 6.5x55 SKAN as well.

 

[rookhawk]

For reference, here’s the Vihta Vuori EU loading manual link:

Rifle reloading data | Handloading | Rifle calibers | Centerfire Rifle bullets | Reload your own ammo - Vihtavuori

Vihtavuori offers rifle reloading data for numerous calibers and bullets for match and hunting purposes. Never exceed maximum loads.

www.vihtavuori.com

take note there are two different calibers:

6.5x55

6.5x55 SE Skan

The latter to very high performance pressures in modern actions.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Never heard of a scan? 6.5 Swede is a 6.5 Swede.

+1

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I think my Sauer barrel is marked 6.5x55 SKAN as well.View attachment 374141

@machinistbutler
Me thinks that it being German made SKAN could stand for Scandinavian/ Swedish .
Just my 2 cents worth
Bob.

 

[rookhawk]

I explained fairly directly why and what the differences are above. But putting it another way:

SAAMI, a US based sporting ammunition trade group with no binding power has arbitrarily decided the specifications for a single 6.5x55 Swedish load for which is safe for low quality vintage rifles.

meanwhile CIP, on behalf of binding legal authority of some 20+ countries, and codified into law, says there are two different cartridges.

if you are a US retailer, you care what SAAMI says. If you are any government proof house in the world, you care what CIP says. If you violate SAAMI rules in the US you’ve made a wildcat and no one cares. If you violate CIP rules in Europe you’re prosecuted.

that’s the difference between a voluntary trade group in the US and a governmental agency in Europe.

 

[machinistbutler]

@machinistbutler
Me thinks that it being German made SKAN could stand for Scandinavian/ Swedish .
Just my 2 cents worth
Bob.

Yes I agree, the barrels are made for the str200, scandinavian target rifle, same action as the SSG without the integral pic rail. My friends from Norway shoot norma factory gold match or something for their practice, they shoot a lot of 6.5 there

 

[rookhawk]

Yes I agree, the barrels are made for the str200, scandinavian target rifle, same action as the SSG without the integral pic rail. My friends from Norway shoot norma factory gold match or something for their practice, they shoot a lot of 6.5 there

6,5 X 55 SE / 6,5 X 55 SKAN​

Test barrel: Sauer STR 200
Primers: Large Rifle
Cases: Lapua, trim-to length 54,80 mm (2.157”)
WARNING: This reloading data is intended to use at modern rifles in good condition such as Sauer, Sako or Blaser chambered to 6,5 x 55 SKAN or 6,5 x 55 SE WARNING: DO NOT USE with Krag-Jörgensen, Mauser M1896 or similar rifles. This data has max loads set at pressure of 380 MPa! NOTE: Data contains velocity information for standard barrel lengths of Sauer STR200 rifles

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

just don't let your friend with a krag soot those loads.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
If'n he does Bruce he may get a lesson on how to quickly disassemble a Krag without tools.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

perttime,
I notice they recommend not using the stronger loads in the 96 mauser and krag.
while it is my belief that the 96 is stronger than the krag, I also believe, unlike some here, that the 96 is not up there with the 98 and modern actions.
bruce.

@bruce moulds
Our Nick Harvey reckons the only difference between the 96 and 98 is the 96 lacks the 3rd safety lug of the 98 and we know Nick likes to run hot when he can
Bob

 

[Shootist43]

Bob, to answer your question, I haven't been able to find any loads for the Barnes 120 GR TTSX. So far I'd have to say they shoot for "crap." To be fair, all of my loads using bullets lighter than 140 Gr. were intended to be used in "The Grandkid's Gun" which sports a 21" barrel. This same gun however shoots 140 Gr. loads just fine. The lad currently using The Grandkid's Gun is now 10 and has no trouble with 140 Gr. loads, so I'm going to write off my attempt to use the lighter weight Barnes bullets as " youthful folly."

 

[rookhawk]

Bob, to answer your question, I haven't been able to find any loads for the Barnes 120 GR TTSX. So far I'd have to say they shoot for "crap." To be fair, all of my loads using bullets lighter than 140 Gr. were intended to be used in "The Grandkid's Gun" which sports a 21" barrel. This same gun however shoots 140 Gr. loads just fine. The lad currently using The Grandkid's Gun is now 10 and has no trouble with 140 Gr. loads, so I'm going to write off my attempt to use the lighter weight Barnes bullets as " youthful folly."

the 6.5 has always shot best with 160gr heavy for caliber bullets. Thus, with copper being 79% the weight of lead by volume, I’d suspect a 125gr-130gr copper bullet to be about perfect in long throated typical swedes.

if 140gr shoots best in lead, a 110gr copper would mimic its volume.

 

[Cousin Bongo]

6.5 Swede is a 6.5 Swede.

For many decades after it's development, the 6.5x55 was simply known as the 6.5x55. It's development started in 1890/91and the cartridge was designed by a joint Norwegian and Swedish commission (at the time, both countries shared the same king). It was not a Mauser design or development. Norway adopted the cartridge in 1894 and the Norwegians seem to have used it more in actual combat. Many decades ago, there was a pile of 1894 and 1896 Swedish Mauser rifles chambered for the 6.5x55 cartridge imported into the United States back in the 1960s IIRC (the 2nd influx happened in the 1980s), and Americans started calling it the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser or 6.5 Swede, etc., but this really isn't correct. U.S. ammo manufacturers just went along with it. C.I.P. didn't standardize it as the 6.5x55 SE until 1984. (SE is the abbreviation for Sweden.) The 6.5x55 SCAN designation (SCAN stands for Scandinavian), which isn't C.I.P., resulted from Norway, Denmark, and Sweden getting together circa 1990 and standardizing the specifications due to Sweden making some minor changes to the case dimensions and upping the pressure a bit. (BTW, the 6.5x55 SKAN differs from the 6.5x55 SCAN and is not interchangeable.)

I've owned several dozen 1894/96 Swedish Mausers and all of them were tack drivers. I took a sweet, lightweight 1896 sporter chambered for 6.5x55 to South Africa a few years back and it was like a death ray on everything up to, and including, zebra.

CB

 

[Steen S. Blicher]

6,5x55 swede is not 6,5x55 swede

http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/upl...-se-en.pdf

https://saami.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Page 41

CIP and SAAMI does not agree 100%

The term 6,5x55 SKAN was introduced together with the Nordic shooting associations' new range rifle Sauer 200 STR in the mid 80s. it was the intention that you could thereby distance new ammunition from the old 6,5x55 SE that runs with fairly low pressure because of the Kragh-Jørgensen and M96.
I actually think the M96 has an undeserved reputation for being a weak action. M96 was manufactured at Carl Gustav and Husqvarna from Swedish high quality steel.

 

[Cousin Bongo]

The info I have is the 6,5x55 SKAN was developed for Biathlon which correlates to the shooting sports mentioned and it has a longer case/chamber length than the 6,5x55 SE. The SE normally gets trimmed right at 54,7 to 54,8mm but the SKAN is a bit longer and is usually trimmed to 55,0mm or a wee bit more. According to Norma, all 6,5x55 SKAN ammo made in Scandinavia is supposedly safe to shoot in 6,5x55 SE as they are supposedly loaded to the same pressures (I’m assuming the caveat is provided it easily chambers without pinching the neck, but I neglected to ask). The Swedes upped the pressure of the 6,5x55 to about 55,000 psi which is one of the factors which led to the 6,5x55 SE designation and standardization by C.I.P. Before that, it was simply designated the 6,5x55 and was loaded to a lower pressure (about 50,000 psi). The SE designation (abbreviation for Sweden which is listed as the country of origin) is supposed to be what informs that it not be used in older rifles such as Norwegian Krags. (I personally wouldn’t hesitate to use it in a 1894 or 1896 in good condition.)

CB

 

[JohnCZ]

Hi all

New to the forum from Australia. I have a CZ 557 full stock with a 20.5" barrel (6.5x55SE marked) that I have commenced loading for. With 140gr Woodleigh PP bullets loaded to 0.030" off the lands is the starting point over ADI powder AR2209, CCI200 primers and full length sized Sako brass. These loads are specific to this rifle and OAL is over length and may not suit your rifle. I will post results as I get them chrony'd.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Hi all

New to the forum from Australia. I have a CZ 557 full stock with a 20.5" barrel (6.5x55SE marked) that I have commenced loading for. With 140gr Woodleigh PP bullets loaded to 0.030" off the lands is the starting point over ADI powder AR2209, CCI200 primers and full length sized Sako brass. These loads are specific to this rifle and OAL is over length and may not suit your rifle. I will post results as I get them chrony'd.

View attachment 377386View attachment 377387View attachment 377388

@JohnCZ
Welcome to AH mate from a fellow Aussie from the central coast of nsw. There are a lot of mad but loveable Aussies here like @CBH, @bruce moulds, @Dr Ray with his love of sako rifles and many more.
Where in OZ do you hail from in our fair land.
Bob