.458 bullets: 45-70 .458 WM/Lott

[Ridge Runner]

I'm looking to get a 45-70 lever action and knowing there is a length difference between .458 Win Mag and 45-70 in the .458 bullet.

I was wandering if anyone used/reloaded the shorter 45-70 bullets in their .458 Win Mag and/or .458 Lott rifles?

What would be or are the benefits for using shorter bullets in a WM or Lott?

1) accuracy
2) pressure
3) reduction or increase powder charge required?
4) penetration on DG: hippo, buff,

 

[Spooksar]

First off the 45/70 bullets are not designed for the velocity of the 458 Winchester or Lott so they may not penetrate. Second they are shorter bullets so may not stabilize enough, this will effect the accuracy. But the easiest way to find out is load some up and try them. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I have a 458 WM. A gun shop not far from me has a 45-70: 24 - 26 inch barrel with full length tube magazine, that I'm seriously thinking about buying.

Having read here on AH about fellow reloaders here on AH reloading shorter length bullets when reloading compressed powder loads in their 458 WM's to get higher velocities (458 Lott) got me wondering if they were using the 45-70 bullets.

Right now I'm concentrating on 458 WM loads, with 500 grain bullets. I might do some experimenting after I return from Aftrica.

 

[bruce moulds]

45/70 bullets will be stable at the higher velocities of 458 win and lott, which probably also have faster twists than 45/70.
being designed for lower velocities, and mostly for deer, they would be best avoided for dangerous or bigger game due to over expansion.
not only will higher muzzle velocity cause this, but also the faster twist of the win and lott.
bruce.

 

[sgt_zim]

Odd as it may sound, you might look at gas-checked, cast bullets. Beartooth Bullets sells a 525 gr WFNGC that might just work. Definitely designed for 45-70, but it's a very long bullet. Brinnel Hardness on BTB is about 22-23, but aren't brittle the way Linotype bullets are.

L-to-R
178 gr .308
286 gr .366
325 gr .458
405 gr .459
425 gr .459
525 gr .459

Note that you can order the BTB up to about .460 diameter. You need to slug your barrel and determine what the groove diameter actually is. Preference for lead bullets is about 0.02" bigger than groove dia. The gas check will protect the bullet base from obturation, I just don't know how well the bullets themselves will hold up at 2200 fps or so. You can call or email them (Beartooth Bullets) about suitability for 458 Lott and that bullet. In general, any load published as safe for a jacketed bullet is also safe for the same weight lead/lead alloy bullet.

Someone here can correct me if I am in error, but I believe these WFN bullets penetrate better at lower velocities because at lower speeds (penetration velocities between about 1100 and 1600 fps), the nose shape causes significant cavitation, and the bullet rides just behind the cavitation. Or at least that's the theory.

 

[crs]

RR,
This Miroku/Winchester 1886 TD .45-90 (.458 2.4) has a 26 inch barrel that did well in Africa shooting 450 grain Punch and North Fork bullets at 2150 fps. Those bullets had a large meplat and penetrated very well.

It appears that is all the velocity needed when you have the right bullets for the tasks at hand.

What 45-70 rifle are you about to buy? Make and model?

 

[Hyde Hunter]

if you want speed then load up some Barnes 350 grain bullets with AA2230 and load them long and you will get what you are looking for

 

[Forrest Halley]

I'm looking to get a 45-70 lever action and knowing there is a length difference between .458 Win Mag and 45-70 in the .458 bullet.

I was wandering if anyone used/reloaded the shorter 45-70 bullets in their .458 Win Mag and/or .458 Lott rifles?

What would be or are the benefits for using shorter bullets in a WM or Lott?

1) accuracy
2) pressure
3) reduction or increase powder charge required?
4) penetration on DG: hippo, buff,

5) practice
This guy got cut loose into the ground at about 25 feet and it was fairly soft. Penetration was about 8" retained weight was about 180 grains of 400 at an estimated 2300+ fps leaving the muzzle from a .458 Lott #1 Ruger.