450/400 Questions

[Russ16]

I have a couple clarification questions on the 450/400.

My understanding is that there were 2 3/8 inch, 3 inch and 3 1/4 inch versions. With the latter two being the most common and the 3 inch version sometimes being called the 400 express.

Which version is used when chambering modern guns like a chapuis, Heym, etc.?

Is one of them easier to find brass for? I’ve seen brass for sale listed as 450/400 with no case length.

Can brass for one be formed from the other?

I’ve also read that bore diameters varied in the early years from .405 to .411. But that this was standardized in the 3 inch version. I assume measuring the bore is important either way, but is it less of a worry on a gun marked 3 inch or 400 express?

When looking at a vintage gun inside of them considered more desirable?

Thanks for any info you can all share.

 

[Pondoro]

450/400 3 inch is what currently being offered.. The other 2 are obsolete..

All vintage guns of this caliber must barrel slugged to determine caliber...especially those older than 1913-1914..

 

[Rare Breed]

I have a couple clarification questions on the 450/400.

My understanding is that there were 2 3/8 inch, 3 inch and 3 1/4 inch versions. With the latter two being the most common and the 3 inch version sometimes being called the 400 express.

Which version is used when chambering modern guns like a chapuis, Heym, etc.?

Is one of them easier to find brass for? I’ve seen brass for sale listed as 450/400 with no case length.

Can brass for one be formed from the other?

I’ve also read that bore diameters varied in the early years from .405 to .411. But that this was standardized in the 3 inch version. I assume measuring the bore is important either way, but is it less of a worry on a gun marked 3 inch or 400 express?

When looking at a vintage gun inside of them considered more desirable?

Thanks for any info you can all share.

Without question the 3 inch which is what my Chapuis is. No problems finding ammo for it or reloading as I do

 

[Russ16]

Without question the 3 inch which is what my Chapuis is. No problems finding ammo for it or reloading as I do

Would you say that vintage guns in the 3 1/4 version should be avoided?

 

[Esoteric Junkie]

Would you say that vintage guns in the 3 1/4 version should be avoided?

The best thing to do when you encounter a 3-1/4" version is to pass along the sellers contact information to me and I will be happy to take it from there.
EJ

 

[318AE]

The 3” is also sometimes called the 400 Jeffery. It’s not just a shorter version of the 3 1/4, it has a thicker rim and case, and I think is a little easier to reload. Brass is a little easier to find, as Hornady makes it. I’ve never seen a modern double chambered for 3 1/4.

The 3” were mostly proofed for a 55gr tropical load, but some show 60gr proofs. In my experience, they regulate the same either way. The 3 1/4 is almost always proofed 60gr.

For a vintage gun it doesn’t really matter that much. The brass and dies are different, but once you have that settled, it is largely the same.

 

[Russ16]

So is brass equally available for the 3 and 3 1/4 inch versions? My brief search turned ups some listed as 3 inch and some with no length designation which I assume is 3 inch as well.

 

[MexicoMike]

I'm just starting out at this but I've found 470 nitro and 450/400 3" (400 Jeffrey) brass and dies readily available. Other calibers? Not really that I can find. So I've restricted my double rifle search to 470 NE or MAYBE a 450/400 if a nice British one shows up that I can afford.

 

[cajunchefray]

Modern brass for the 450/400 is 3”.
Hornady with think Norma had produced some, Hornady is currently available.
You cannot form brass from one to the other, rim thickness and base geometry is different. The 450/400 3 inch (aka .400 Jeffery is a a thicker rim and case.
I have not seen brass for the 3 1/4” for a long time, though Bertram has produced some in the past.

Dies are readily available for the 3” version. Custom ordered dies only for the 3 1/4inch.

That being said if I could get an English 400/450 3 1/4” Nitro from a proper gun and rifle maker, I would sell a kidney and have components and tooling custom made.

 

[Rare Breed]

Would you say that vintage guns in the 3 1/4 version should be avoided?

No I would not. You will just struggle to feed it ammunition

 

[Rare Breed]

So is brass equally available for the 3 and 3 1/4 inch versions? My brief search turned ups some listed as 3 inch and some with no length designation which I assume is 3 inch as well.

3 yes 3 1/4 no

 

[Russ16]

Thanks for all the responses. I believe I have a better handle on it now.