45/70 lever action with a Hornady Interlock for Cape Buffalo

[SRvet]

Have a look at this video I have just seen. I would be interested in your thoughts …., a reasonable course of action or foolhardy in the extreme??

 

[BJH65]

It’s been done many times before including by some AH members, so nothing groundbreaking IMO. With the correct bullet and shot placement it has worked on Cape buffalo. It wouldn’t be my first choice, IMO I still think it’s marginal and would much prefer to use a 375 H&H as a minimum.

The guy in the video says he’s getting almost 1900 FPS with an 450 grain Hornady Interlock bullet? Did not know they made an 450 grain Hornady Interlock bullet for 45-70? If that is correct, that’s a hot load. Interesting link below regarding 45-70 and Cape buffalo.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

It’s been done many times before including by some AH members, so nothing groundbreaking IMO. With the correct bullet and shot placement it has worked on Cape buffalo. It wouldn’t be my first choice, IMO I still think it’s marginal and would much prefer to use a 375 H&H as a minimum.

The guy in the video says he’s getting almost 1900 FPS with an 450 grain Hornady Interlock bullet? Did not know they made an 450 grain Hornady Interlock bullet for 45-70? If that is correct, that’s a hot load. Interesting link below regarding 45-70 and Cape buffalo.

I have killed two cape buffalo bulls. Both with a .458 Win Mag. I have no experience with the .45-70, so I'm hardly an expert. The first one was with old Winchester factory ammo. The first shit was through the shoulder and low through the heart. He stayed alive for several more shots until I finally broke his neck when he was about ten feet from the PH when the PH's rifle malfunctioned. The next one was taken with full power .509 grain hand loads. The bullet on that one also struck on the shoulder and hit the heart a couple of inches higher. That bull ran about 25 yards and piled up dead.

Even with hand loads, a .45-70 will not equal the factory loads of a .458 WM. A .45-70 is a marginal caliber for heavy dangerous game. I would not use a marginal cartridge on any animal if it means putting the lives of someone at more risk than necessary. I (or you) will not be the only person to consider when hunting dangerous big game.

 

[SafariCurious]

It's amazing the difference in people's opinions.

On this website, most of the posters seem to share my opinion that its best to err on the side of being over-gunned rather than under-gunned.

On another hunting website, (and this site censors their name) a lot of the members promote using a .223 for everything including bears, moose, elk, etc.

That being said, if you look at a ballistics chart, you'll see the relatively wide and heavy 45-70 loses velocity and thus power fairly quickly, so while a +P loading out of a long barrel might get close to 4,000 FPE at the muzzle, it drops off much more rapidly than something like a .375 would.

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I'm one of those that has (used a .45-70 on buffalo). Two hunts, two buffalo. I have no knowledge of this factory load. After consultation with my PH, I went with a solid (Cutting Edge 325 grain brass solids). I was told the range would be 75 or less, and my load development and practice reflected that. Both were shot at approximately 40ish yards and both were dead very, very fast from a single shot. I was getting a hair over 1800 fps from my Marlin GBL (18.5" barrel). I would absolutely use this on buffalo again, and very likely will.

They do not show a load on their website with a 450 grain bullet.

By the way, in my opinion, that's an ugly .45-70...

 

[sgt_zim]

Hornady doesn't make a 450 gr Interlock in .458. They make a 350 gr that you might could get 57 gr of Varget under and would probably get around 1900 fps.

 

[thriller]

Here we go again........

 

[375Fox]

It's amazing the difference in people's opinions.

On this website, most of the posters seem to share my opinion that its best to err on the side of being over-gunned rather than under-gunned.

On another hunting website, (and this site censors their name) a lot of the members promote using a .223 for everything including bears, moose, elk, etc.

That being said, if you look at a ballistics chart, you'll see the relatively wide and heavy 45-70 loses velocity and thus power fairly quickly, so while a +P loading out of a long barrel might get close to 4,000 FPE at the muzzle, it drops off much more rapidly than something like a .375 would.

Hunters who can shoot vs Target shooters who go killing. The 223 for everything debate may be the dumbest idea I’ve ever heard propped up by target shooters.

 

[SRvet]

Hornady doesn't make a 450 gr Interlock in .458. They make a 350 gr that you might could get 57 gr of Varget under and would probably get around 1900 fps.

That was my concern!!

 

[SRvet]

I'm one of those that has (used a .45-70 on buffalo). Two hunts, two buffalo. I have no knowledge of this factory load. After consultation with my PH, I went with a solid (Cutting Edge 325 grain brass solids). I was told the range would be 75 or less, and my load development and practice reflected that. Both were shot at approximately 40ish yards and both were dead very, very fast from a single shot. I was getting a hair over 1800 fps from my Marlin GBL (18.5" barrel). I would absolutely use this on buffalo again, and very likely will.

They do not show a load on their website with a 450 grain bullet.

By the way, in my opinion, that's an ugly .45-70...

I agree entirely that if I were to attempt to shoot a buffalo with a 45/70 (which I will not!) that I would use a bullet like the 325g CEB solid. I wouldn’t be using an interlock of any description as they shed their cores for fun!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

I'm one of those that has (used a .45-70 on buffalo). Two hunts, two buffalo. I have no knowledge of this factory load. After consultation with my PH, I went with a solid (Cutting Edge 325 grain brass solids). I was told the range would be 75 or less, and my load development and practice reflected that. Both were shot at approximately 40ish yards and both were dead very, very fast from a single shot. I was getting a hair over 1800 fps from my Marlin GBL (18.5" barrel). I would absolutely use this on buffalo again, and very likely will.

They do not show a load on their website with a 450 grain bullet.

By the way, in my opinion, that's an ugly .45-70...

I knew the son of a man that used a .22 Hornet yo kill elk. He sat in a blind that overlooked a water hole. When the elk looked toward him, he shot through the eye to the brain. Worked every time. Worked every time, but that does not make a .22 Hornet a good elk rifle. Same logic applies to using a .45-70 on a buffalo hunt.

 

[Jim Golden]

That was my concern!!

I load that bullet in my Marlin 1895 Cowboy .45-70 with 26" octagon barrel. I get about 1850 ft/s with it. Completely devastated a white tail deer with it. But even that load is so hot it will sometimes kick the lever open, so it's probably too hot.

How does a .45-70 loaded up hot like this compare to a .405 Winchester? Teddy Roosevelt shot about everything with a .405 and never got eaten. I would think this hot loaded .45-70 would be on par with it. OK a quick search shows the .405 does a 300gr at 2200ft/s. That probably is a bit hotter than a 350 at 1850 ft/s. Looks like I need an 1895 Winchester

I built a .375 Weatherby to take to Africa. Also have a .460 Weatherby in the works. Both are Model 1917 Enfield actions with A-Square Coil-Chek stocks. Gotta get over there before I expire of old age....

 

[Tundra Tiger]

I knew the son of a man that used a .22 Hornet yo kill elk. He sat in a blind that overlooked a water hole. When the elk looked toward him, he shot through the eye to the brain. Worked every time. Worked every time, but that does not make a .22 Hornet a good elk rifle. Same logic applies to using a .45-70 on a buffalo hunt.

Agree to disagree sir. And your analogy is quite lacking, IMO.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Not ideal. But a double lung shot placed in the soft region behind the shoulder from a perfectly broadside position will consistently work.

My issue with employing this setup on a Cape buffalo hunting Safari, is this:
You pay top Dollar to go hunt in an exotic Safari in the Dark Continent (which will probably be a once-in-a-lifetime thing for many hunters). So why would you bring something which is only good for taking down Cape buffalo from certain angles ? If you’re perfectly in acceptance of your ballistic limitations and totally willing to pass up certain shots until/unless your white hunter is able to get you into the perfect broadside position, then it’s absolutely fine. But why handicap yourself during such a costly overseas hunt ? Better to arm yourself with a combination which is efficient on Cape buffalo from all angles. Also makes life much easier on your white hunter.

If you have a favorite pet .45-70 Government which you want to employ against a Cape buffalo for purely sentimental reasons, then I totally get that. Other that that, just go to your nearest Cabelas or Bass Pro and buy a good .375 Holland & Holland Magnum or .375 Ruger (or anything larger).

 

[Doug Hamilton]

Agree to disagree sir. And your analogy is quite lacking, IMO.

I was not saying that using a .45-70 on a buffalo is the same as using a .22 Hornet to hunt elk. It was not intended as a direct analogy. My point was that just because something has been, or can be, done does not make it the best option.

 

[zephyr]

A Hornady Interlock would be the last thing you would want to use on a Cape Buffalo
*** If*** you feel compelled to shoot take a Buffalo with a 45-70 at least use the best Bullet possible.... Swift, Northfork, CEB and others that have been proven

 

[Rafiki]

Have a look at this video I have just seen. I would be interested in your thoughts …., a reasonable course of action or foolhardy in the extreme??

YA HOO! Ride 'em cowboy!

 

[JimP]

I was not saying that using a .45-70 on a buffalo is the same as using a .22 Hornet to hunt elk. It was not intended as a direct analogy. My point was that just because something has been, or can be, done does not make it the best option.

Even that analogy has flaws. Why use a 375 HH when you could use a 458 Win or Lott, why use any of them when you can go bigger?

It should come down to the fact that if the cartridge is legal then it can be used. Most hunters who use marginal cartridges have the patience to wait for that perfect shot, and more than likely are capable of making that shot. It is no different that those who choose to use a pistol. Be it a 44 mag 10mm or a 375 JDS.

 

[CJNJ]

This is my 45/70 black bear gun. If I ever get to Africa, it will not be used on buffalo. But I note that elsewhere on this forum are people talking about hunting elephant with a bow.

 

[OxfordTheCat]

Even fancy bullets aside, I wouldn't hesitate whapping a buffalo with a 45-70 and 405 Corelokts if it were permitted and everyone was on the same page.

It's .458 and it will go through 18" tree trunks at 50 yards. It will do the job. Not a stopping rifle, that's why the PH carries one, I suppose.