404 Jeffery Cogswell and Harrison

[bassasdaindia]

hi all

does anyone know the value and history of the Cogswell and Harrison rifle in 404 Jeff,I have tried searching online however the values seem to differ .

thanks in advance .

 

[Red Leg]

Condition, condition, condition ...... Any modifications? Butt original or pad added? Drilled for scope mounts? Original blue? Condition of stock - refinished or original? Any provenance? All sounds picky but it can swing the value many thousands of dollars.

All that said Cogswell & Harrison traces its lineage for more than 200 years and is one of the best London makers. It's initial bolt action offering was a proprietary design called the "Certus". Chambered in .400, it was a real rifle, but no comparison to Mauser's '98 (I can so testify - I have one), and before the first World War they were building their magazine rifles on the mauser and mannlicher actions. They built .404's for both the well-healed and for the game ranger in East Africa. They are WONDERFUL rifles. Its precise value will depend on its condition and original embellishment. I would put a low end value on it of $4 to $5K and high end value of $20 - $25K. You can find a very nice one for $12 - $15K.

If you plan to keep it, you might want to find a copy of "Cogswell & Harrison Two Centuries of Gunmaking" by Graham Cooley and John Newton

 

[BRICKBURN]

That's why I like this forum. Lots of smart folks sharing their knowledge.

 

[Wheels]

That's why I like this forum. Lots of smart folks sharing their knowledge.

+1 Interesting info to know Red Leg.

 

[bassasdaindia]

red leg thanks for the informative reply , it is appreciated .

I can not comment on the condition yet, as I only saw the rifle once several years ago. When I saw the rifled I mentioned to the seller that if he should ever consider selling the rifle that I would want to purchase it.

yesterday my phone rings and the seller informs me that he is ready to sell

the seller resides in a different province (state ) to me so I need to make my way to him to view the rifle and discuss the price.

hopefully more to follow ..............

 

[bassasdaindia]

red leg you have a message

 

[peras]

There were a batch of 404 Cogswell and Harrisons built on old surplus P14 actions. These are not valued very highly, just make sure it is not one of them, they come onto the market every now and then at relatively low prices.

 

[bassasdaindia]

here are some pics of the rifle that the seller sent to me,the rifle is an ex Rhodeasian parks rifle and says 404 and not 404 Jeffery .The action looks like it is a Mauser action.

I plan on getting to view the rifle on the weekend.

 

[enysse]

Looks nice, but value I have no idea! I honestly couldn't see spending more than what a CZ costs.

 

[Wheels]

The rifle looks pretty good from the photos. You might want to try and find the serial number to check out how old it is. You may also want to check the rifling. Game department rifles may have been shot quite a bit.

That looks to be a M98 action. You can't do any better than that. It has been drilled and tapped which depending on age will hurt the value. The pad looks aftermarket. The bluing looks pretty good for a game department rifle. You may ask him if it has been reblued.

You might also want to send the photos to George Caswell with Champlin Arms. He may be able to give you a better idea of value and what to look for.

http://www.champlinarms.com/

All the best.

 

[bassasdaindia]

Looks nice, but value I have no idea! I honestly couldn't see spending more than what a CZ costs.

I agree with you on the above

 

[bassasdaindia]

The rifle looks pretty good from the photos. You might want to try and find the serial number to check out how old it is. You may also want to check the rifling. Game department rifles may have been shot quite a bit.

That looks to be a M98 action. You can't do any better than that. It has been drilled and tapped which depending on age will hurt the value. The pad looks aftermarket. The bluing looks pretty good for a game department rifle. You may ask him if it has been reblued.

You might also want to send the photos to George Caswell with Champlin Arms. He may be able to give you a better idea of value and what to look for.

http://www.champlinarms.com/

All the best.

thanks Wheels for the reference

yes it has been drilled and tapped

 

[bassasdaindia]

 

[Red Leg]

Just looking at the pictures, I would suspect this rifle was restocked at some point in its life. A typical British express rifle is somewhat more minimalist - particularly in the forearm and the grip. The only former parks rifle I have held had a very worn, but very British stock without the usual forend cap. Different from this one. It also looks to have been fairly heavily buffed at some point and then hot-blued (I hasten to add, I am looking at photos, but that sight base looks worked over). Even a parks rifle leaving the UK would have had that wonderful satin rust-blue finish. All of that is not surprising, considering how hard the parks rifles were used.

As a Parks rifle, C&H probably sourced it to the Birmingham trade, which was done with a lot of working class "London" guns. This is not a bad thing from a functional perspective, but does affect its collector value over a rifle which was assembled, stocked, and finished in London (note I did not say made - only "best" SxS rifles and guns were actually filed up in London by any of the makers)

So if I am correct - that it is a heavily refinished barreled action in a replacement stock, then you are looking at a pure shooter rather than a hunting rifle that also has any real collector interest. (I suppose someone might invest in a small premium for a former Rhodesian provenance regardless of condition) From that "shooter" perspective, it then comes down to the barrel - how many solids rotated down it during its life and how many more it will fire accurately.

Were it me, any investment in it would be based purely on that value as a .404 to shoot.

 

[Gert Odendaal]

Any .404 Jeffery is a bargain , it does not have a thump hole, so it is a commercial action, military action has a thump hole to insert stripper clips. The barrel will be your only concern, slug the barrel, measure it, anything from .419" t0 .423" will be working in your favor. It seems not all old rifles are collectors items. Enjoy this rifle, shoot it and hunt with it , it really is in a class of it`s own...what really amaze me is although a lot of members have calibers like the .416 Rigby/Ruger, .448 Win Mags, .500 Jeffery....they all still want to own a .404 Jeffery...it really makes you think...

 

[enysse]

Yes, it makes me think manufactures of guns are stupid....they need to start producing them again. Not in large numbers but just enough to satisfy the demand.

 

[bassasdaindia]

update : I have decided NOT to purchase the C&H , and my main reason being that I already have a CZ550 in 404 Jeff and I would rather use the money to purchase another rifle , although I don't know what rifle yet.

thanks for all the input.

 

[Wheels]

update : I have decided NOT to purchase the C&H , and my main reason being that I already have a CZ550 in 404 Jeff and I would rather use the money to purchase another rifle , although I don't know what rifle yet.

thanks for all the input.

Out of curiosity, how much did he want for the rifle?

All the best.

 

[bassasdaindia]

Out of curiosity, how much did he want for the rifle?

All the best.

hi Wheels,the seller wanted R17 000.00 or approx $1700.00

 

[Wheels]

Thanks for the info.

Not a bad price if it shoots.

All the best.