375 Whelen Improved?

[TXTad]

Here is the answer...

If push came to shove, and I was forced to give only ONE answer to the question, "what is the perfect cartridge and load for bears?" The answer would be, the .350 Rem Mag loaded with 250 grain Partitions.

View attachment 653680

I wish the .350 Rem had been more popular. There used to be a guy from Arkansas who was always at the big Market Hall gunshow in Dallas with dozens of tables full of bulk components that were cheap even by 90s standards. For some odd reason, I remember looking at the .350 Remington brass and thinking I should buy a thousand of them, but I never did. Such a great looking and performing cartridge. I think it and the Model 600 carbine were just ahead of their time.

 

[Daryl S]

Had Remington come out with the .350 in a M700 action, I think it would have been more popular, especially if throated for seating the bullets out further.
Excellent case. "We" set the barrel back on that 9.5x68, after we had fired in total likely 5,000 or more rounds through it. All I ever did with it was testing loads and bullets made from .223 brass in 300 and 350gr. Keith and later his brother David shot it even more than I did. I got that barrel back after David had it magna-ported & the gunsmith business that did this in Manitoba told him it had 1 1/2" of throat erosion. So- Dave pulled the barrel and had a new Shilen put on and chambered that for the 9.5x68. I used the old barrel, shortened 1/2" and re-threaded on a M96? Styer. The chamber ended up being perfect for a .350 Rem. mag. with the belt turned off(I have a small lathe). I was running 270gr. Hornady Spitzers and RN's at 2,100fps. Could have gone much higher but they shot well. Shot a couple moose with those, then the extractor broke one day trying to get it to climb over a rim. That was it for that gun. I don't even remember what I did with it. LOL I still have the barrel, though - I think - in the rack.

 

[hoytcanon]

Had Remington come out with the .350 in a M700 action, I think it would have been more popular, especially if throated for seating the bullets out further.
Excellent case. "We" set the barrel back on that 9.5x68, after we had fired in total likely 5,000 or more rounds through it. All I ever did with it was testing loads and bullets made from .223 brass in 300 and 350gr. Keith and later his brother David shot it even more than I did. I got that barrel back after David had it magna-ported & the gunsmith business that did this in Manitoba told him it had 1 1/2" of throat erosion. So- Dave pulled the barrel and had a new Shilen put on and chambered that for the 9.5x68. I used the old barrel, shortened 1/2" and re-threaded on a M96? Styer. The chamber ended up being perfect for a .350 Rem. mag. with the belt turned off(I have a small lathe). I was running 270gr. Hornady Spitzers and RN's at 2,100fps. Could have gone much higher but they shot well. Shot a couple moose with those, then the extractor broke one day trying to get it to climb over a rim. That was it for that gun. I don't even remember what I did with it. LOL I still have the barrel, though - I think - in the rack.

Deep throating doesn't help the .350 RM, the short mag length is the limiting factor, unless you build on a long action. Personally, I feel like the cartridge should just operate within its short action wheelhouse. I'm going to make a comment and I don't all of you OCD gunutters to go off on me, quoting physics... but, in my personal experience (pretty extensive), with the .350 RM cartridge, particularly when loaded with 250 grain Partitions (which mine usually are), the .350 Rem Mag just seems to kill way above what the paper numbers would lead you to believe it should. It shouldn't be considered an "NA stopping rifle," and yet I have stopped a couple bears at inches rather than feet or yards. I have seen large bull moose shudder at Impact and very large bears hump up and drop without so much as a woof. Also, it has proven, over the course of several rifles, to be very tolerant of various loads and accurate to boot. I have a lot of confidence when carrying this combination.

 

[Daryl S]

That's exactly what I said in the first sentence. The "various" Whelen(s) are in the same boat as to ballistics.

 

[Flbt]

@BeeMaa
And where's the fun in that.
The Ruger is lacking something.
That's right the WHELEN tag. 375 Whelen sounds classy , 375 Ruger, ho-hum so yesterday bro.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
Bob

375 whelen in a blr with a custom 8-10 shot mag or a win 1895.
That seams interesting.
Don’t know if I could shoot it now with my arm. Or what use I would have for it.
But I would not mind having one.
But I also want a blr in 35 w to.

 

[Flbt]

It would be a 375 Whelen Improved, but marking and papers would say "38 Whelen"

Why? Just because. If one do not, we all would hunt with a 30-06...


And-having a 38Whelen do not mean I can`t have a 35 Whelen
My project/fun-gun is a Rem700Long Action with a switch barrel system

Would you use standard.375 or use something like 38-55 size bullets
They are just a little different right?

 

[Daryl S]

Are you, Flbt talking abut .377" bullets? Those are rather specific for under 2,000fps. Pleanty of good .375" bullets for the .38 or .375 Whelen.
Here are some I made for varous rifles, from 458" to .358 using ctg. cases for jackets. The 1st two, are from my .458 2", driven at 2,070fps. Both were 480gr. to start and were shot into the end of a brand new fir railway tie at point blank range - at -40F. The first one had a wheel weight core and made 14 1/2". The much expanded one went only 11 1/2" & had a pure lead core. The longest one is a 350gr. from a shortened .223 case and weighed 330gr. The expanded bullet beside it wad extracted from a 14" diameter aspen tree, shot at -24 IIRC. It almost made the back side of the tree as in 13" of penetration.
Trees, especially living trees are quite hard at those temps.

 

[Flbt]

Are you, Flbt talking abut .377" bullets? Those are rather specific for under 2,000fps. Pleanty of good .375" bullets for the .38 or .375 Whelen.

Oh ok
Don’t reload so no idea.
The 38 w
Just brought up the idea of the 38-55 Winchester.
I am not exactly up to my normal self today
Hurt my arm and have taken a few pain pills today

 

[Daryl S]

NP - I totally understand. It's only 3:15PM, so I haven't started on the pain killers yet. LOL

 

[steve white]

The improved will be better for head spacing. If I remember correctly it does about 2200 with a 300 grain, maybe a little more.

It would be even better for head spacing on the 400 Whelen improved.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Deep throating doesn't help the .350 RM, the short mag length is the limiting factor, unless you build on a long action. Personally, I feel like the cartridge should just operate within its short action wheelhouse. I'm going to make a comment and I don't all of you OCD gunutters to go off on me, quoting physics... but, in my personal experience (pretty extensive), with the .350 RM cartridge, particularly when loaded with 250 grain Partitions (which mine usually are), the .350 Rem Mag just seems to kill way above what the paper numbers would lead you to believe it should. It shouldn't be considered an "NA stopping rifle," and yet I have stopped a couple bears at inches rather than feet or yards. I have seen large bull moose shudder at Impact and very large bears hump up and drop without so much as a woof. Also, it has proven, over the course of several rifles, to be very tolerant of various loads and accurate to boot. I have a lot of confidence when carrying this combination.

@hoytcanon
For some inexplicable reason 35s seem to kill way above their pay grade even the little 358.
When REM bought out the 350 with a 200gn bullet it was scoffed at a bit but Remington in their wisdom beefed that bullet up to be able to handle large noise and bears. When these animals started dropping people quickly changed their minds about it. With the advent of more modern powders and projectiles it's even more of a good thing.
Whilst it works just fine in a short action if I had a spare long action laying around it would be fun to lengthen the throat and seat bullets out and figure out what I could actually wring out of it just for the fun of it.
Bob

 

[Flbt]

NP - I totally understand. It's only 3:15PM, so I haven't started on the pain killers yet. LOL

Trying to move a Massey furgson tire around it dicided to go where it wanted to not where it was supposed to

 

[Daryl S]

It would be even better for head spacing on the 400 Whelen improved.

I achieved 2,472fps with 300gr. Hornady Interbond, Interlockt & 300gr. Norma Alaskan bullets.
That load only produced 2,380fps with 300gr. Sierra bullets, however later I found that 60gr. of BLC2 produced 2,474fps with the Sierra bullets. I did not test the other two makes of 300gr. to see if they would run well over 2,500fps with the BLC2 load, but suspected they might. At no times did I achieve even 1/2 a thou. of head expansion with these loads. On top of that, I only EVER neck sized, never needing to bump a shoulder back, with this ctg. or my 9.3x62's which produce well over anY "book" speeds.

I agree, Bob. With a long throated .350 Rem. Mag., no bullet would have to be seated below the short neck & it's full case capacity could be used.





Daryl

 

[Rule 303]

A Winchester M70 has about the longest magazine of the short actions. So in an M70 might be able to seat the projectiles out far enough to get a bit more velocity.

 

[Flewis]

It would be even better for head spacing on the 400 Whelen improved.

Very true.

 

[Daryl S]

The larger shoulder diameter does help but, - if a person is careful in how the dies are set up to never touch the shoulder, the headspacing is just fine.
Everything I load, is either neck sized only, or partial FL sized. I do not let the die touch the shoulder. I have never had to "bump" a shoulder. I do wonder about the loads people use, who have to bump shoulders. Partial FL sizing is VERY important with all belted cases. If the dies are adjusted to bump the shell holder with the bottom of the die, you are most likely pushing the shoulder back each time you reload. That is why some people get less than 5 reloads out of their belted magnum cases. They split at the web, or show stretch marks at the web sometimes partially separating, showing incipient head separation. This is from constantly shoving the shoulder back, then when the ctg. is fired, it stretches forward again, eventually separating at that location.
Been re-loading since 1968 - a lot. This picture shows only the current loading bench. I only have 2 presses set up at this time, along with a Ponsness Warren shotshell loader and one of my lube sizers. It's gotten a bit crowded. Currently there are 5 more loading manuals at my computer in the next room.

 

[Flewis]

The larger shoulder diameter does help but, - if a person is careful in how the dies are set up to never touch the shoulder, the headspacing is just fine.
Everything I load, is either neck sized only, or partial FL sized. I do not let the die touch the shoulder. I have never had to "bump" a shoulder. I do wonder about the loads people use, who have to bump shoulders. Partial FL sizing is VERY important with all belted cases. If the dies are adjusted to bump the shell holder with the bottom of the die, you are most likely pushing the shoulder back each time you reload. That is why some people get less than 5 reloads out of their belted magnum cases. They split at the web, or show stretch marks at the web sometimes partially separating, showing incipient head separation. This is from constantly shoving the shoulder back, then when the ctg. is fired, it stretches forward again, eventually separating at that location.
Been re-loading since 1968 - a lot. This picture shows only the current loading bench. I only have 2 presses set up at this time, along with a Ponsness Warren shotshell loader and one of my lube sizers. It's gotten a bit crowded. Currently there are 5 more loading manuals at my computer in the next room.

I think you’ve got it covered.

 

[Boone66]

The larger shoulder diameter does help but, - if a person is careful in how the dies are set up to never touch the shoulder, the headspacing is just fine.
Everything I load, is either neck sized only, or partial FL sized. I do not let the die touch the shoulder. I have never had to "bump" a shoulder. I do wonder about the loads people use, who have to bump shoulders. Partial FL sizing is VERY important with all belted cases. If the dies are adjusted to bump the shell holder with the bottom of the die, you are most likely pushing the shoulder back each time you reload. That is why some people get less than 5 reloads out of their belted magnum cases. They split at the web, or show stretch marks at the web sometimes partially separating, showing incipient head separation. This is from constantly shoving the shoulder back, then when the ctg. is fired, it stretches forward again, eventually separating at that location.
Been re-loading since 1968 - a lot. This picture shows only the current loading bench. I only have 2 presses set up at this time, along with a Ponsness Warren shotshell loader and one of my lube sizers. It's gotten a bit crowded. Currently there are 5 more loading manuals at my computer in the next room.

The only cartridge I ever had short case life with was a 300wby Ruger no1. And yep, I only neck size and don't push the pressure to max. Got really tired of expensive cases, so pulled the barrel, thinking of having it bored out to 9.3

 

[Rule 303]

The only cartridge I ever had short case life with was a 300wby Ruger no1. And yep, I only neck size and don't push the pressure to max. Got really tired of expensive cases, so pulled the barrel, thinking of having it bored out to 9.3

Go to 35 Whelen or one of its derivatives or 375 H&H, all perform very well in the Rugger No1. You could be bold and do a 358/338 RUM. This is a great round.