.375 should be banned from buffalo hunts!

[bimbo]

I would agree with your assessment generally that 375 is bare minimum and possibly even inadequate for buffalo, then I see buffalo dead as yesterday, by a few other caliber
Like 9.3 , 45-70 , 35whelen, I even have a pansy ass bow hunting buddy who killed one with his bow and arrow.
I lean toward a .416 or a.404 Jeffrey on shoulder shooting buffalo , but alas my 375Ruger with 300gr TSX @ 2625fps will have to make do till then!
I know shot placement is absolutely crucial and wouldn’t feel naked at all standing against a buffalo with a 9.3x62 especially if the person’s more recoil sensitive,
1st shot counts the most !

...
I agree...poor number of hunters could be allowed to hunt buffalo...

 

[CBH Australia]

@BRICKBURN
Translation please.
Bob

G’day Ole Fossil,

If you highlight the text and use the translate option it will show the translation.

I didn’t know @BRICKBURN was Bilingual

My PH spoke in 3 languages I think.

Bob is Bilingual, well he has a forked tongue. There you go he has made me derail another thread.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

View attachment 710500

@Nyati
I'm at the age where if you really piss me off you will get what you deserve
At my age, life in prison isn't a big deal. The older I get the less time I have to serve.
So NEVER PUSS THE OLDER GENERATION OFF
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

G’day Ole Fossil,

If you highlight the text and use the translate option it will show the translation.

I didn’t know @BRICKBURN was Bilingual

My PH spoke in 3 languages I think.

Bob is Bilingual, well he has a forked tongue. There you go he has made me derail another thread.

@CBH Australia
My beautiful wife says I'm brilliant at multi tasking.
I can talk and piss people off at the same time
How ya bin ya young whipper snipper.
Probably still using that horrible little 243 are you.
Bob

 

[CBH Australia]

@CBH Australia
My beautiful wife says I'm brilliant at multi tasking.
I can talk and piss people off at the same time
How ya bin ya young whipper snipper.
Probably still using that horrible little 243 are you.
Bob

Well, would you believe this, we went over to South Australia to collect another caravan. We took the pink rifles and the Fallow went to ground.
I thought the .243 would be good from the car and the 7x64 would otherwise take best of them. But they all went to ground, not a Deer presented

 

[bimbo]

To paraphrase a well known professional dangerous game guide...."anyone who thinks the .375 is in-effective has either never tried one or is unwittingly commenting on their own shooting ability ".

I have saw hunting dozen of buffalo with all the calibers from 45/70 gvt trough 9.3 and upward until to 600 NE...all those buffalo ,except for brain or spine shot,have got 4 or 5 shots before going down.With 9.3 and 45/70 gvt one shoulder /chest shot only, and dropped on the spot or after several yards .
Same good job with bow and arrow only!!!

 

[bimbo]

Who's to say that those who were killed or injured by a buff who was shot with a 375 wouldn't of been killed or injured if shot by a 416 or larger caliber.

I also wonder why with your assessment of the 375 that you would ever book a client who needed a loaner rifle and didn't want to shoot something larger.

Also with a client going on a DG hunt who needed a loaner rifle should be questioned on their proficiency with a 375 or larger rifle.

I saw a savanna buffalo get 14 bullet from a 416 rigby and neither so badly placed and it still was walking !!!Another one 5 shots of 500 jeffery all bullet well placed...!
Shoot straight and premium bullet are everything especially for buffalo and elephant

 

[bimbo]

The majority of wounded buffalo that manage to hurt or kill people do so because the client failed in his only real responsibility - placing the first shot in exactly the right spot. A 400 gr .416 is no more lethal in the wrong spot than a 300 gr .375. I would further argue that on an in-bound buffalo, neither the .375 nor the .416 represent stopping rifles. That buffalo will have to be either brained or spined in the neck with either. It is one of the arguments made by one of the most experienced PH's I know in Moz whose "back-up" rifle is a .375 (rather like that Don Heath fellow and his 9.3x62).

The average DG hunter going to Africa will hunt one buffalo. A few will hunt a couple. A very small minority will hunt multiple ones. I would suggest that first time client is best armed with the rifle and sighting system that is the easiest and most natural transition from the deer rifle he or she uses at home. I do not believe anything beats a scoped .375 for that job - unless perhaps a 9.3. In other words, with a .375 a client is more likely to do his one job successfully than with something else.

If we then consider client accuracy and confidence in his first shot, that makes an apples and oranges comparison of the .375 and .416 and any "obvious" conclusions rather suspect.

One other point. I have owned a number of forties. I currently own a .404, 500/416, .450, and a .470. I shoot them all very accurately. When traveling internationally on 10-14 day hunt, the last thing I want to do is schlep multiple rifles. In my experience to date, nothing does it all better than a .375.

Finally, you chose your avatar. I assume you expected a reaction. You have had a couple. It looks like someone trying to express their inner Mark Sullivan. Sorry if I drew the wrong conclusion. Nós somos quem fingimos ser. (Kurt Vonnegut)

It s always like that...375 or 9.3 are as 9mm luger in the handgun...everybody try every round police,army and soon or late come back to 9 mm luger.Every type of weapon must have every thing to be perfect and 9.3 as well as 375 in rifle category have got both.

 

[bimbo]

PH's recommend the 375 to certain categories of buffalo hunters, especially beginners. They recommend the 375 for various reasons, including business reasons.

For example, just suppose that a PH/Outfitters in Africa told a potential cape buffalo hunting client that they needed a .416 or bigger to safely hunt cape buffalo.

What do you think that potential clients would do? ( Remember many first time cape buffalo hunters are convinced that the .375 is the biggest cartridge that they can handle.)

Would he book his hunt with that Outfitter and then get a .416 and learn to shoot it?
Or, would he go with an outfitter that told him that he would be just fine with a 375?

If you were that Outfitter struggling to pay your bills, what would tell a potential cape buffalo hunting client if he asked you that question, considering that the wrong answer could cost the Outfitter $5,000 net?

This is not an academic proposition. It is a practical issue that the DG hunting business deal with every day in Africa.

Hit straight at the same way with a 9.3/375 and a 416/458 is very difficult as well as walking /bringing for dozen miles too!!!Gun bearer are not allowed in many african hunting camp just now...so...This is a problem which can be the difference between hunting and not go hunting when we are talking about of hunting buff and elephant on foot...!!!

 

[bimbo]

Sorry ..I have done a traslation 's mistake...english is not my language which all you have surely known..!.I mean... in many camps the gun 's bringers are not an option ...

 

[grand veneur]

Sorry ..I have done a traslation 's mistake...english is not my language which all you have surely known..!.I mean... in many camps the gun 's bringers are not an option ...

Be careful with translators like Google. Something like that is helpful, but it is better to speak some English so that you can adapt the text into a language they can understand from almost everyone.

 

[bimbo]

Hunters now have to bring own gun by theirselves ...so if u are tired will be very difficult hit straight...and in addictional poor walking will want say have poor number of chance to get your goal.Hunting buffalo and elephant have to do by own legs!!

 

[grand veneur]

Sure, but that is not what this is about.

 

[bimbo]

I had the same feeling because of various reports on other Forums from Australian hunters about buffalo kills with cartridges that I would consider marginal for shooting heavy wild boars.

I shot few water buffalo in Malaysia with the cartridge 9,3x74R and FMJ bullets, which was not particularly difficult. They were above all problem animals that caused insecurity in the oil palm plantations bordering the jungle, but only one was particularly aggressive. They were big wild buffalo, but in all likelihood also following the Australian model, meaning buffalo that had become feral a long time ago. In Southeast and South Asia, the transition from tame to wild water buffalo has been fluid for thousands of years. This perhaps can explain some of their behavior and their lack of toughness compared to their wild African cousins. In South America it will be comparable.

I have send an e.mail to malaysian national park years ago to get info about hunting ,elephant P.AC especially,but I never have got answer by them.I have downloaded a file about hunting to buffalo and other species but I could not know who contact for a safari booking .Have u one for?

 

[DieJager]

I have send an e.mail to malaysian national park years ago to get info about hunting ,elephant P.AC especially,but I never have got answer by them.I have downloaded a file about hunting to buffalo and other species but I could not know who contact for a safari booking .Have u one for?

I'll DM you

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I have no dog in this fight and never shot a buff of any kind just a few mean cows.

But I remember something I think colt Jeff cooper wrote. ( no one is saying a 220 solid from a 30-06 through the hart won’t kill a buff. But what is the buff going to do to you with the extra minutes compared to a 375 or bigger throug the heart?)

And as for the 460 wb o would take a 375 h&h over a 460 wb any day for anything
The 2 shots I had from a 460 is all I ever want from one.
That thing made a 10ga out of a h@r single shot a pussycat in felt recoil to me.

@Flbt
I once had the pleasure/ misfortune to fire 3 shots out of a 460 Weatherby. That cured me if ever wanting to fire one again.
The only other rifle that had the same effect was the 8.3x62 that @peter Who owned That bitch of a thing cured me if wanting to shoot IT after one shot. It had a boot in it like an angry mule and felt like you were getting a belt up the chops with a pick handle.
On the other hand the 425 express that @Badboymelvin owns is a real joy to shoot with 409grainers at 2,400+ fps.
To me a rifle should fit you well then you are able to mitigate recoil more easily.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Go with the .243 and you'll get some real traction!

@Tbitty
That's already been done and I was surprised how many people actually disliked the 243.
Bob

 

[Fulvio]

I would dare say that when my Barnes 350g TSX went stem to stern through a cape buf at 30 yds it is quite sufficient.

I had already previously posted that the 350gr bullet is a game-changer for the 375 H&H.

 

[revturbo9967]

@revturbo9967
I would say that's because they know 90% if shooters can't handle anything bigger. Most hunters have never shot anything bigger than a 338 win mag and the thought of something with a four in it ( apart from a 243, couldn't resist that one.) scares the living daylights out of them
Bob

Eh not really. The 375 has been effective on Buffalo for 100+ years. Why all of a sudden is it not effective? I point to terrible shot placement either from not enough practice, worked up nerves, or poor visibility due to brush or a combination of all 3. Bigger calibers don’t fix this, just gives more room for error, sometimes…..

I stand by what I said before. If a good quality .375 bullet of 300 gr or more hits the Buffalo in the vitals, it will die, that’s a fact. If you don’t hit it in the vitals, it doesn’t really matter.

On a recent podcast, a well known ph shot at a wounded buffalo with a .416 rigby and laid 3 well placed shots on the shoulder, and he still was gored. The reason he was attacked and injured was due to using solids and not softs. The solids went right through and didn’t kill fast enough. The .416 made no difference in how fast the buffalo died, but the bullet choice did. It is no different with a .375.

 

[BFaucett]

Well Bob, I would imagine that regardless if that warthog was a pet or not, your friend giving him coffee in his bowl in the morning probably wasn’t a good idea? Too much caffeine in the morning can affect people and warthogs and make them aggressive. That’s why I don’t shop at Wal Mart until later in the day. LOL

Yeah, I think it's best to only serve them decaf coffee. Too much caffeine in the morning can make Warties very grumpy and aggressive.

(I freely admit that I was a little apprehensive about posing for this photo.)

I think Osa is probably the primary person to blame for getting Warties first hooked on caffeine back in the 1920s and 30s.

Osa Johnson holding a can of Maxwell House Coffee.

Cheers! Bob F.