Gday
Excellent question Fordy........ One of my last trips to visit with Paul and do some shooting with the 500 MDM, I wanted to try and answer this very question, only in .500 caliber. I gave the 335 Raptors and the 350 ESP Raptor/Solids a good go on buffalo, these at higher velocity. I just figured the high velocity Raptors would be wicked, and they were of course, but I could not tell much difference in Animal reactions from the lighter faster Raptors in .500 than the heavier Raptor, 450s at 2400+...... Both were devastating, but I just could not see major differences in animals taking the hit. There is a 350 ESP Raptor/Solid that has been very effective on many other species, I shot several buffalo including a few big bulls with it and they put them in the dirt, but not any better than the heavier Raptors at some less velocity. Perhaps the question remains unanswered. I would say if you can get your hands on some of the 350s then give them a go. They are going to work and do well, but better than the 475 .510s? I doubt it from what I have seen. In the test work done with the 350 .510s at 3007 fps I was hitting buffalo capable at 22 inches penetration in my medium, and about the same penetration with the 350 ESP Raptors at 2750 fps in the 500 MDMs........ Both buffalo capable of course, I don't like below 18 inches for buffalo.
Thanks for that Michael as makes sense on a lot of other chamberings /weights as we get to a point where the velocity & weight just work well & going faster doesn’t give us any real benefit & one a tipping point occurs & preformance or killing efficiency goes backwards & not as much left in the bank for when things don’t go our way & this is where it’s interesting to see how individuals accept a certain level of killing efficiency
Again another discussion for another day but a lot in that
Fordy, I had to read this a few times to get the jest of what you were asking.
Thanks for taking the time to re read with a perfect response on what I was asking as it’s so important to understanding & dare I say get more consistency well yes I’ll go there lol but another day on that
The answer is yes, in solids with 65% meplat or better, 458+ just does not veer off course, dead straight all the way almost no matter what gets in the way. Less than .458, then twist rates are important, even on proper designs. I believe it is the actual physical size of the meplat that assists the larger bores. Even on Raptors in .416s I have seen them turn right at the end of penetration, in test work and in animal tissue....
Thanks for that it’s one I’ve seen a fair amount of this on the .510 as long as you don’t have a too severely compromised meplat like these
as no faster twists have helped out then ( actually can be detrimental) so once again we go back to a well designed pill is paramount
When it all comes together I’ve found you can pretty well rely on any twist as long as it flies straight ( & even have some that kinda wobble on impact re under 10 yard impacts ) as once in the critter it’s upto the design or probably better to say design takes up the driving forward from there not the twist the faster twist only puts bandaids over things but sometimes the choices we need to make , the bandaids are a good option but better if we don’t need them as a well designed balanced pill has shown better consistency results in testing I’ve done ( it’s on a few critters lol )
. I can't say much for the Rat calibers, I could not stomach doing any test work with 375s...... Since I DON"T GIVE A RATS rear end ABOUT THAT CALIBER. I did try however, but I got tired of the puking and dry heaves touching those Rat bullets and Rat guns. I think I manged to test a couple of solids and maybe some Raptors in that caliber before I had to tell them do your own tests. HEH HEH............
Ok if I’ve still got your attention Here’s one more on the rat calibers just to make you puke a little more lol or maybe it’s one that goes back to where ea individuals level of acceptance shows up ?
Yes I know you’ll not probably respond to this part below but hopefully you get a chuckle
Rat calibers..........Keep them for Rats, and not big ones, little ones....... Might consider a larger caliber for those big river rats............
Here’s a little rat with the 500 Jeffery & it works pretty well on them
Shot the odd one of those
with the Jeffery & contary to popular belief im yet to loose one with the Jeffery even on less than ideal placement
Although I couldn’t see where the impact occurred on that one lol
But I on these guys with the rat calibre & pretty big scrubbies around the tonne mark & bigger one of the 2 more likely 1.1 plus
First one was bang hunched him up struggled to find his next gear & wobbled for about 25 yards & down & out ( insurance shot applied on ground)
#2 was on impact the impact did make him slightly buckle or was it just double clutched moment ? as once he found another gear & next 2 shots just made him change up a gear ea time & 71 seconds later & around 350 yards he first tipped over
& then regained his feet but was pretty buggered & still staggered another 70 odd yards & finally secured with a cns shot ( I don’t have last bit once he regained his feet on video sorry so can’t screenshot )
So a 25 & 400 plus yard impact to tip on these 2 critters & in this case ea was fine with the rat calibres as critters were recovered due to the wide openness but put that 2nd bull in other areas you won’t recover him & number 1 gives you a really uneasy feeling going into cane grass , bamboo etc to locate the critter & this is still the case when carrying a in my case a Jeffery but it goes to another level if the chambering was of anything less than a 4 on initial impact or subsequent shots
But here’s where change of location & terrain those rat calibers are definitely not a good choice & that is what I believe the op was getting @ & you also Michael
BUT let’s face it it’s one that Africa also has a trump card in the trackers or fenced properties in some cases & you’ll recover more game in those cases due to these plus reliant on a ph we are vastly different in Aussie in some cases others like the pictures above many of these will be taken with a 308 or like but beware I say as not much room for error but die they do in most cases ( yes not all do as you find wounds & pills in them from time to time on even pretty well placed shots contary to popular belief again but very low % )
I don’t like to leave it to the ph or trackers & also hope the pill does it job & why some very basics need to be covered but another day on those & why I asked on the 458 stability in the first case & a line comparable to the 474 is one that is pretty good to hear as now that opens up a lot more possibilities imo but people need to know how to shoot these bigger bores & most of that is mental imo & utmost respect to those who that applies to on those words
The 375 is a minimum for a reason & sorry but I love my rat calibers for my rats but one the Jeffery is way more fun
Imo of course
Cheers
