375 Ruger vs 375 H&H

[Daisy]

It can certainly be argued it isn't better, even on the merits of the cartridge. In overseas hunting there is normally a bias towards commercial ammo, at least at the destination. Fully loaded, the Ruger it more recoil from lighter rifles, and heavier loads. Maybe more muzzle blast due to shorter barrels and certainly if one is unmutual enough to shoot the muzzle brakes Ruger seems to think were necessary as part of the package, in a group setting. But according to Boddington, there is no discernible difference in killing or stopping power, the ballistic difference is just too close. He tested 6 rifles and the velocities out of the 375s were nearly identical when shot from the matching barrels. From a 375 H&H, these are typically 25 inch barrels, and for the Ruger the standard is 22. Even the H&H with the 22 inch barrel was only 60-100fps slower than the Rugers. Generally longer barrels are favoured until the bush gets really tight.

I generally prefer unimproved cartridges for feeding. At the very least, one would have to admit that "improving" cartridges, making them lower aspect ratio, blunter shouldered, and fatter, is not done to improve their feeding in manually operated platforms.

These short, fat, cartridges are a huge marketing win, less barrel length, shorter actions, proprietary cartridges, a classic less for more, like the Big Mac.

Generally, calling things "modern" is just the terrorist aesthetic/Jacobin approach. Things from Marxism to DQ Storytime all get the same treatment. But it is effective.

I love a Big Mac, you almost had me until you disparaged an American culinary treasure

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The .375 H&H has accounted for more large animals shot in Africa than any other cartridge, across its 111 year history.

The Ruger, while a fine cartridge, fixed a problem that never existed.

@DLSJR what is your source for your first statement? Just curious.

The 375 Ruger did solve a problem that did exist: It provided 375 H&H performance from a non-magnum length action and from a 20 inch barrel.

 

[375Ruger416]

At the end of it all, what matters is getting out there. May end up using hired rifles for everything on my first safari as I am considering a combo trip combo touring trip with my wife and family and having rifles I’ll only use on half of the hunt or less is a nuisance I don’t need.

As far as ‘religious’ goes, perhaps I should have said zealot or fixed delusion. There is no significant difference between these cartridges in performance. The emotional and passionate responses about how you might lose your luggage and that the 375 H&H has been doing it for a hundred years. The real difference is availability in the style of rifle you want, and yes in availability of ammo in remote places. I want a durable rifle with a modest length barrel - and I’ve decided I don’t want a wood stock or blued barrel for reliability and accuracy reasons. I want to use the ammo I’ve proved the rifle with and I’d rather borrow a rifle and ammo than rezero my rifle with whatever ammo happens to be lying around and see if it shoots well. YMMV, which is fine.

Acting like there’s really a ‘wrong’ answer to this question is what makes me bring up religion. That 375H&H is the one true African cartridge is an act of faith, not facts.

Happy New Years and Happy Hunting!

 

[Rule 303]

But here is the thing. If you worked up a great ammo load for your HH, and it didn’t show up, then you would be shooting your rifle with factory ammo you were not used too. Not exactly the same as using camp rifle, but at least that rifle would be sighted in and known to shoot well with the factory ammo.

Takes a bit of the oomph from the “what if your ammo didn’t arrive” argument imo.

I believe I covered off on this in my reply if you read all of it.

 

[Rule 303]

African airlines requiring the ammo be separated is nothing new. They've been doing that for quite some time.

True, but to me it is recent as I only came across it on my last 2 trips to Africa.

 

[Rule 303]

At the end of it all, what matters is getting out there. May end up using hired rifles for everything on my first safari as I am considering a combo trip combo touring trip with my wife and family and having rifles I’ll only use on half of the hunt or less is a nuisance I don’t need.

As far as ‘religious’ goes, perhaps I should have said zealot or fixed delusion. There is no significant difference between these cartridges in performance. The emotional and passionate responses about how you might lose your luggage and that the 375 H&H has been doing it for a hundred years. The real difference is availability in the style of rifle you want, and yes in availability of ammo in remote places. I want a durable rifle with a modest length barrel - and I’ve decided I don’t want a wood stock or blued barrel for reliability and accuracy reasons. I want to use the ammo I’ve proved the rifle with and I’d rather borrow a rifle and ammo than rezero my rifle with whatever ammo happens to be lying around and see if it shoots well. YMMV, which is fine.

Acting like there’s really a ‘wrong’ answer to this question is what makes me bring up religion. That 375H&H is the one true African cartridge is an act of faith, not facts.

Happy New Years and Happy Hunting!

You really are the emotional one. Nothing emotional or passionate in my response. I could not care less what you use, I was just pointing out that a previous response was at this time, a practical one, just like your thoughts on using a hired rifle as you don't want to be traveling with one for parts of your trip.
Enjoy your trip with the family, this to my thinking is a good thing and will give you and them rememberable holiday.

 

[DLSJR]

@DLSJR what is your source for your first statement? Just curious.

The 375 Ruger did solve a problem that did exist: It provided 375 H&H performance from a non-magnum length action and from a 20 inch barrel.

To answer your question about my comment on the .375 taking more large (as in dangerous) game than any other cartridge, consider this…. The 375 H&H first came to market in 1912. At that time there were not a lot of people hunting in Africa for sport, but there were game departments and meat hunting operations in many countries. The 416 Rigby was developed a year earlier but not a lot of rifles were built in this cartridge. The 458 Winchester didn’t come along until 1956. So, for a very long time the 375 H&H was THE most available and affordable bolt action offering. It was offered by more than a few rifle manufacturers. So it got used more than anything else, by default.

The game departments and market meat hunters needed affordable rifles with plenty of available annd anffordable ammunition, so the 375 H&H won by default.

Keep in mind, not a lot of people ever hunted with doubles in large Nitro Express cartridges. There had not been all that many double rifles built up through the 1980’s. There are almost certainly more doubles in use today than ever were used in the 1900’s.

The 375 H&H got there because there weren’t so many options until the last 50years and by then many thousands of animals had been taken with the Holland & Holland chambering. For probably 50 years (1920- 1970) it may have been the single most common chambering to encounter in Africa.
Lots more choices today, but not many are a lot better for their intended role.

 

[Daisy]

To answer your question about my comment on the .375 taking more large (as in dangerous) game than any other cartridge, consider this…. The 375 H&H first came to market in 1912. At that time there were not a lot of people hunting in Africa for sport, but there were game departments and meat hunting operations in many countries. The 416 Rigby was developed a year earlier but not a lot of rifles were built in this cartridge. The 458 Winchester didn’t come along until 1956. So, for a very long time the 375 H&H was THE most available and affordable bolt action offering. It was offered by more than a few rifle manufacturers. So it got used more than anything else, by default.

The game departments and market meat hunters needed affordable rifles with plenty of available annd anffordable ammunition, so the 375 H&H won by default.

Keep in mind, not a lot of people ever hunted with doubles in large Nitro Express cartridges. There had not been all that many double rifles built up through the 1980’s. There are almost certainly more doubles in use today than ever were used in the 1900’s.

The 375 H&H got there because there weren’t so many options until the last 50years and by then many thousands of animals had been taken with the Holland & Holland chambering. For probably 50 years (1920- 1970) it may have been the single most common chambering to encounter in Africa.
Lots more choices today, but not many are a lot better for their intended role.

Proper Barrel Length - Safari Club

What’s the “proper” barrel length for a dangerous game rifle? That’s a question that often comes up around the fire in safari camps across Africa

safariclub.org

Just know lots of modern professional DG hunters think short barrels are a major part of DG hunting and a major part of safety.

Remember, if you ever use experience as a backing to an argument, there will always (or almost always) be someone with more experience that will disagree with you.

 

[DLSJR]

Proper Barrel Length - Safari Club

What’s the “proper” barrel length for a dangerous game rifle? That’s a question that often comes up around the fire in safari camps across Africa

safariclub.org

Just know lots of modern professional DG hunters think short barrels are a major part of DG hunting and a major part of safety.

Remember, if you ever use experience as a backing to an argument, there will always (or almost always) be someone with more experience that will disagree with you.

I know a lot of very experienced PH’s with 20-40 years experience. I can’t think of any who think a 22” barrel is a problem and damn few who think 24” is, either. Most backup rifles I’ve seen wore 22” barrels and a few 24” and one 26” if I remember correctly. While I’m sure there are some, I can’t think of any PH who hunts outside the jungles that carries a 20” barreled back up rifle. The only place where a 20” barrel would be a distinct advantage is hunting in equatorial rainforest.

With all due respect, the advantages of A 20” barrel for 95% of all client/sport hunter dangerous game hunting are more perceived than real. But marketing departments at a few gun manufacturers won’t admit that. But hey, if it makes you happy you go right ahead.

 

[Jim Golden]

I get 2889 ft/s with my .375 Weatherby with a 300gr. I think it's superior to either of these

 

[Daisy]

I know a lot of very experienced PH’s with 20-40 years experience. I can’t think of any who think a 22” barrel is a problem and damn few who think 24” is, either. Most backup rifles I’ve seen wore 22” barrels and a few 24” and one 26” if I remember correctly. While I’m sure there are some, I can’t think of any PH who hunts outside the jungles that carries a 20” barreled back up rifle. The only place where a 20” barrel would be a distinct advantage is hunting in equatorial rainforest.

With all due respect, the advantages of A 20” barrel for 95% of all client/sport hunter dangerous game hunting are more perceived than real. But marketing departments at a few gun manufacturers won’t admit that. But hey, if it makes you happy you go right ahead.

Is the SCI article marketing?

 

[Tam Dl]

I meant to include in my review that some or most of the issues I mentioned with the 375 Ruger would go away if you were able to shoot it with a silencer. Recoil and noise go down. Weight goes up from a lighter starting point, potentially. And the Ruger rifles are mostly factory threaded at this point.

 

[Tam Dl]

On barrel length, the way I hear it framed is that the 24-26 are not a problem, not that shorter barrels have to be. Shorter isn't a problem if one doesn't think it is. Unless one is deafening people to no purpose. However, it is important to note that while it isn't discussed, there is virtually no limit to how short stupid can go.

Archery is the prime example here with bows moving from 60 inches plus, and often almost 20 inches longer, to 28 inches in overall length. With each inch reduction, purchasers have been convinced they couldn't stick with the longer bows without a definite hazard to their success. Archery is different than rifles, even the most extreme bows sometimes still make it to the podium in archery contests, and there are some advantages to be sure, and no absolute disqualifications. I only mention it because it is a rich field of delusional behaviour.

Rifles are different. In Canada there is no limit to long gun barrel length, unless the rifle is a semi (fact check if you are in the arena, nobody knows the law up here). Stuff like 8 inch barrels on 308s and 12 gauges are remarkably popular. Particularly given that suppressors aren't legal... I'm fine with it, though most of these things are shot with muffs on. But the next time you hear an argument about 22 inches vs 24 inches, it could be an argument over 8 inches rather than 10 inches, if some regulator didn't have your back. Can't happen with stopping rifles? I can think of one gunsmith whom I think did make a 500 something in a 12 inch barrel, on a number 1. Certainly lots of 16 inch "African" rifles are on offer.

Just so you sorta know, sound pressure increases significantly from the difference of the muzzle being closer to the left ear, in particular, on a shorter barreled rifle. My calcs indicate 1.2 decibel increase from shortening a barrel from 26 to 22 inches. Doesn't sound like much, just so long as you are aware that a 20 decibel increase is 10 times more ability of the sound to do work, which in this case is beating up your hearing (1). Apparently we can't hear any lessor variation than 3 db, but small variations are a lot worse than they sounds. And then shorter barrels are usually louder also.

So one chart shows 30-06 out of 24 inch vs 18.5 as 158.5 vs 163.2 (That latter figure is actually at the threshold that our technology can measure, so some stuff is probably "off the charts" when you go to magnums). And that is noise at the muzzle which is further away, by a significant amount, for the longer barrel.

(1) While the general info on sound energy follows the same script, I find it difficult to wrap one's mind around. I came across two different sources, one saying that 10 db, and another saying that 20 db, increased pressure 10 fold. Just assume it is a lot.

 

[Tam Dl]

With all due respect, the advantages of A 20” barrel for 95% of all client/sport hunter dangerous game hunting are more perceived than real.

Particularly since the likelihood of a newbie drawing that kind of action on their first guided hunt, and being the hero, entirely because their equipment was 2 inches shorter than the next guy's, isn't all that high. As in, it may never have happened.

 

[Tam Dl]

Proper Barrel Length - Safari Club

What’s the “proper” barrel length for a dangerous game rifle? That’s a question that often comes up around the fire in safari camps across Africa

safariclub.org

Just know lots of modern professional DG hunters think short barrels are a major part of DG hunting and a major part of safety.

Remember, if you ever use experience as a backing to an argument, there will always (or almost always) be someone with more experience that will disagree with you.

Even if so, people discussing this stuff who haven't even decided on their first rifle (where that may be true), are at the opposite end of the spectrum of what they should consider, compared to a pro who has progressed to the point of highly refining his equipment based on experience.

On the second point, of course you are right, however it is rare for anyone to have experience that means much. The outdoor world used to be full of references to whom had used their gear climbing Everest. About the least relevant kind of experience on earth, short of "what I used on my trip to Mars".

People with a lot of experience are often disqualified from consideration because their experience doesn't match up to ours; it is generally too thin. I mean, Cooper was a world authority on pistols, in his lifetime he only shot 3 people to death, and at least two of the encounters were really weird. Not a meaningful sample size.

 

[Tam Dl]

True, but to me it is recent as I only came across it on my last 2 trips to Africa.

I love a Big Mac, you almost had me until you disparaged an American culinary treasure

They are dead to me, or rather, I can't eat them or I would be dead.

 

[Rule 303]

One thing about longer barrel that I have not seen mentioned but was taken into account in years gone by. Sighting Radius. This, of course, nowadays only effects those using open sights. I have found, from experience, that the older you become so the eyes abilities change. For me, who, was thinking of docking my CZ550 416 Rigby from 25" to 23" the ageing eyesight reared its ugly head. I could clearly see the front sight on a 25" barrel but on a 23" barrel the front sight was blurry.

Now don't go rushing to tell me most use optics nowadays. My response to that will be No Shit Sherlock. I am not trying to tell people what to use, just pointing out one of the reasons rifles manufacturers stayed with longer barrels. Yes there other others.

If you want to use a rifle with a 20" barrel fill your boots, makes no difference to me unless I am along side your rifle when you shoot.

 

[Jim Golden]

How’s the recoil in the 375wby compared to the others?

It's noticeably harder. When I shoot H&H's out of my Weatherby, it's more like a .270 But, I use an A-Square Hannibal stock so even with the Weatherby it's not bad. Just a big shove...not a violent hit.

 

[Jim Golden]

I mean all weatherby’s with the exception of the 7mm, 300 and now the 30-378 are solely loaded by Weatherby and priced out of the average guys pocket book. Now don’t get me wrong, Roy was a mad genius and designed some great cartridges! The 340 Weatherby may very well be the best of the 338 cartridges, it is an absolute hammer. The 257 WBY may be the best in the .25 arena, I’ve seen a lot of speed goals meet their demise to this cartridge and have always wanted one. Might buy one now that the guns are made in America now and not the people’s republic of California.
I’ve never messed with the 375 WM, and can’t remember the last time I saw ammo for sale besides in the Weatherby Factory in Sheridan, Wy a couple weeks ago. I guess my assumption was that blowing out a 375 H&H case to the weatherby double radius shoulder would result in poor case like and a large amount of split cases, but like I said that is an assumption and I have no experience with this cartridge. I have a 338-378 riding in the back seat keeping me and the 375 Ruger company right now so I’m not bashing anyone’s decision to shoot one, just stating my experience with the several that I have owned. Interested to know how fire forming the 375 case works.

Bullthrower, I built a .375 Weatherby on an Enfield action and really like it. I hand load all my cartridges and with that, it's not more expensive than any other cartridge. The brass isn't that expensive. Truthfully, all hand loading components have gone up a lot since the pandemic. I have also shot about 60 rounds of H&H out of my Weatherby. They shoot just fine and you get a fireformed Weatherby case when you eject the empty (albeit with a too short neck....). I've chronographed a couple at 2885 and 2889 ft/s with a 300gr. I didn't chrono the H&H's out of it. I need to get my own chrono.... I think it's a great caliber, and you can use H&H if your ammo doesn't show up. The Ackley Improved is about the same thing....

 

[WI-2021]

I have no DG or even Africa experience, but I do have a pair of .375 Rugers in the safe. If all goes to plan, I'll be doing plains game in 2025.

I chose the .375 Ruger for several very important (to me) reasons, neither of which have anything to do with which is the better cartridge. Without further ado, those reasons were cost, and availability of left-handed rifles. IIRC, I paid $600 each for my two Ruger Hawkeyes. They were both closeouts from CDNN and are the older versions before they added those infernal muzzle brakes with their goofy/useless thread pitches.

The African came first. I wasn't sure what to expect in terms of recoil, but I found it to be very shootable. It's not the smoothest action and the trigger isn't good, but I liked it enough to order an Alaskan as well. I actually like the Alaskan even better, mainly due to the shorter length and being stainless/laminate. Both actions have slicked up some with use, but they'll never win any awards for smoothness. Both of them have been glass bedded and now have 1" Decelerator pads. I had the Alaskan threaded 5/8-24 so that I can use a suppressor on it too.

While I like my Rugers, I would have chosen the H&H if rifle cost and availability were equal. Should I ever decide to build a custom .375 it will definitely be the H&H, if for no other reason than ammo availability. Now that my customs in .223, .308, and .300WM are finished I'm starting to get the itch to do a .375. If I do it, the Ruger African will be sold to partially fund it.