35 Whelen

[Rule 303]

Really!?!? I want one!

I understand that with this die you still have an undersized rim and head. I could be wrong on the head size it may squeeze brass down to expand the case head.

 

[MS 9x56]

I understand that with this die you still have an undersized rim and head. I could be wrong on the head size it may squeeze brass down to expand the case head.

That is correct. Case life is shortened.

 

[jruby]

If I remember correctly John Taylor used 300 grain bullets in his 350 Rigby and said they penetrated as well as 375H&H 300 grain bullet. The 350 Rigby of his day had about the same performance of a 35Whelen.

Also not many reloading manuals give you loads for the 275 grain 358 bullet. No stunts at all just very limited application/use.

How exactly other than being 35 caliber are the 35 Whelen and the 350 Rigby alike, there cases certainly are not.

 

[Flbt]

Sure not in thier reloading manual.

No idea if it was ever in a reloading manual. I dont reload.
I think I remember seeing a 300 gr factory load at cdnn. With it being at cdnn it probably was not popular.
Or it could have been a mis-print. It was awhile back when they still sent out print catalogs all the time

 

[jruby]

Maybe the industry needs to come out with 35 Whelen +p loading

 

[MS 9x56]

I understand that with this die you still have an undersized rim and head. I could be wrong on the head size it may squeeze brass down to expand the case head.

The 30-06 has a larger rim than the 9.3x62. But not enough to cause any issues in most rifle bolts.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I understand that with this die you still have an undersized rim and head. I could be wrong on the head size it may squeeze brass down to expand the case head.

@Rule 303
You would need a massive press with a lot of camming powers and muscles in your shit to operate it.
Apart from the flash hole the case head is solid brass so it would be impossible to move brass from the case walls to the head.
Remember cases are made from the base up not the neck down.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

How exactly other than being 35 caliber are the 35 Whelen and the 350 Rigby alike, there cases certainly are not.

@jruby
They are entirely different cases but the 350 Rigby was loaded with 225 grainers in its day with a velocity if 2,600fps and a 300 grainer at 2,250fps. With modern powders in a strong rifle this could be dramatically improved.
The Whelen on the other hand can be loaded with a 225 grainer to 2,900 fps and a 310 grainers to 2,455fps. A significant gain over the old standard Rigby.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Maybe the industry needs to come out with 35 Whelen +p loading

@jruby will never happen
Years ago two world renown gun writers, Les Bowman and Nick Harvey worked up some loads for the 257 Roberts that left Remington factory loads in their wake. This was done in complete safety with no issues. The year was 1982. They had 100 grainers at over 3,200 fps and 117-120 grainers nudging 3,000 fps. Remington wouldn't listen and to this day still under loads their 257 Roberts ammo even in the plus P loads.
Ammunition manufacturers have to take into account older weaker rifles are still around and the fact lawyers love idiots.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Look I honestly could not see much difference in the 338 wm and the 358 w the way it hits game.
Now again it might be what o was shooting
And the fact I was using 200gr loads in the 338 and 250 gr in the 358.
I think the bigger bullets hit a bit harder.
But the 35w is faster than my 358.
So if the 338 and 358 did about the same on deer and hogs.
I would like to see the 35w at its faster speed compared the 338 first hand.

I thought it’s like the 357 compared to the 44 spc and the 45 colt.
The 357 might have the ft lbs but the other 2 seems to hit harder ( factory loads) 158gr jsp on the 357 and 255 gr 45 and 200gr swc 44 spc

@Flbt
I think it depends on what projectiles you are using.
Nice point lead tip or plastic tips work wonderfully well on game and maks them very dead
BUT
Load up son nice big round nose or flat nose and you will still end up with very dead animals but the in game reaction is entirely different. The impact of these big round nose seems to rattle them to their core.
Recently @ Rick HOlbert recently returned from a hunt in Namibia using his 358 win loaded with 225gn Woodleigh RNSP instead of the pointy bullets. He personally noticed the difference in on game effects with the round nose. They just seemed to hit a lot harder.
I can guarantee you those big round nose definitely hit hard. When I shot my oryx bull with a 250gn old Hornady Round nose leaving the muzzle at 2,700fps you could see his whole body ripple from the shoulder to the rump. My PH has seen a lot of game shot with a lot of calibers but he said he had never seen an animal react like that before. Top that off that old big stant cup and core round nose punched a golf ball size holes out the other side in a broadside shot. Range was 12O yards. Since then I have become a concert if big round nose for use out to 200yards. They just seem to dump a lot of energy in a big way. Maybe ol Elmer was into something.
Bob

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt
I think it depends on what projectiles you are using.
Nice point lead tip or plastic tips work wonderfully well on game and maks them very dead
BUT
Load up son nice big round nose or flat nose and you will still end up with very dead animals but the in game reaction is entirely different. The impact of these big round nose seems to rattle them to their core.
Recently @ Rick HOlbert recently returned from a hunt in Namibia using his 358 win loaded with 225gn Woodleigh RNSP instead of the pointy bullets. He personally noticed the difference in on game effects with the round nose. They just seemed to hit a lot harder.
I can guarantee you those big round nose definitely hit hard. When I shot my oryx bull with a 250gn old Hornady Round nose leaving the muzzle at 2,700fps you could see his whole body ripple from the shoulder to the rump. My PH has seen a lot of game shot with a lot of calibers but he said he had never seen an animal react like that before. Top that off that old big stant cup and core round nose punched a golf ball size holes out the other side in a broadside shot. Range was 12O yards. Since then I have become a concert if big round nose for use out to 200yards. They just seem to dump a lot of energy in a big way. Maybe ol Elmer was into something.
Bob

The 358 was dubble tap 250 gr I think game kings
The 338 was Winchester silver tip

 

[Flbt]

@Flbt
I think it depends on what projectiles you are using.
Nice point lead tip or plastic tips work wonderfully well on game and maks them very dead
BUT
Load up son nice big round nose or flat nose and you will still end up with very dead animals but the in game reaction is entirely different. The impact of these big round nose seems to rattle them to their core.
Recently @ Rick HOlbert recently returned from a hunt in Namibia using his 358 win loaded with 225gn Woodleigh RNSP instead of the pointy bullets. He personally noticed the difference in on game effects with the round nose. They just seemed to hit a lot harder.
I can guarantee you those big round nose definitely hit hard. When I shot my oryx bull with a 250gn old Hornady Round nose leaving the muzzle at 2,700fps you could see his whole body ripple from the shoulder to the rump. My PH has seen a lot of game shot with a lot of calibers but he said he had never seen an animal react like that before. Top that off that old big stant cup and core round nose punched a golf ball size holes out the other side in a broadside shot. Range was 12O yards. Since then I have become a concert if big round nose for use out to 200yards. They just seem to dump a lot of energy in a big way. Maybe ol Elmer was into something.
Bob

I see where DT is offering 310 gr woodLeigh Weldcor if I drop a bear permit might have to try them lol

 

[Rule 303]

How exactly other than being 35 caliber are the 35 Whelen and the 350 Rigby alike, there cases certainly are not.

Their performance is near identical due to how the 350 Rigby was loaded, which is what I said if you care to read that post correctly. That is how they are alike. Nowadays if you have a 350 Rigby Magnum it can be loaded to replicate the 358 Norma mag or slightly better.

 

[Rule 303]

@Rule 303
You would need a massive press with a lot of camming powers and muscles in your shit to operate it.
Apart from the flash hole the case head is solid brass so it would be impossible to move brass from the case walls to the head.
Remember cases are made from the base up not the neck down.
Bob

Correct I should have been a bit clearer, to expand the case just above the head by making it thicker. either way I stand to be corrected.

 

[jruby]

Their performance is near identical due to how the 350 Rigby was loaded, which is what I said if you care to read that post correctly. That is how they are alike. Nowadays if you have a 350 Rigby Magnum it can be loaded to replicate the 358 Norma mag or slightly better.

The pressures are different, you need a long action for the rigby. The cases are different and you mentioned the 35 whelen not the 358 norma. Still dont get your point on how they are so similar. Yes they shoot a 35 caliber bullet.

 

[Flbt]

The pressures are different, you need a long action for the rigby. The cases are different and you mentioned the 35 whelen not the 358 norma. Still dont get your point on how they are so similar. Yes they shoot a 35 caliber bullet.

I think it’s regarding the size , weight and speed of the 35 cal bullets from each caliber.
And now with today’s powder with the 350 case size it could be loaded to be close to the 358 nm
But balticly the 350 rm and the 35w were close?

 

[Deepfork]

Hi Bob
What I'm trying to say is that if you play around with any cartridge it can be improved. A good gun Smith can do wonders. We both know one of them. What can be done with a 35 Whelen can be done to a 338. Do you know any Whelen that comes close to Nick's 338.

So here is my perspective, there IS some mystical sweet spot that the 35 Whelen achieves.

I own four 35 Whelen rifles. When I first started visiting this site I owned zero. One of my early interactions on this site was in response to one of Bob's posts, I informed him that it was impossible to cram enough powder into a 30-06 case to get a 225 gr Bullet moving at 2900FPS. I acquired my first 35 Whelen rifle and set out to debunk Bob's wild claims. That did not work out for me...in fact I have pushed a 245gr bullet to 2900fps. My go to .35 Whelen load is A 245gr Hammer bullet at 2860fps, muzzel energy is 4,450 at the muzzle.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, no creative gunsmithing. All of my 35 Whelen rifles are factory original or re-barreled to .35 Whelen with no other modifications.

 

[Flbt]

So here is my perspective, there IS some mystical sweet spot that the 35 Whelen achieves.

I own four 35 Whelen rifles. When I first started visiting this site I owned zero. One of my early interactions on this site was in response to one of Bob's posts, I informed him that it was impossible to cram enough powder into a 30-06 case to get a 225 gr Bullet moving at 2900FPS. I acquired my first 35 Whelen rifle and set out to debunk Bob's wild claims. That did not work out for me...in fact I have pushed a 245gr bullet to 2900fps. My go to .35 Whelen load is A 245gr Hammer bullet at 2860fps, muzzel energy is 4,450 at the muzzle.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, no creative gunsmithing. All of my 35 Whelen rifles are factory original or re-barreled to .35 Whelen with no other modifications.

I have found on a local site a rem 7400 for sale I put in a offer wating to see what happens.
What factory load would be a good starting point for a sim auto 35 w?

And yea I know the Remington autos have the nick name jam o magitc
With the few 30-06 and 308 I used the 180gr because of that.

 

[jruby]

i have had at least one 35 whelen since about 1989. My current one is one is built on a 1950 Columbian mauser with a shilem barrel. I also currently own a 1960s Winchester model 70 chambered in 358 Norma. I have had a 358STA that I felt was a bit too much of a good thing. I am a strong believer in shooting published loads, like loads that ate coming out of a reloading manual. I think if it's not published you are taking your chances. If I need more power than a 35 whelen or norma I will go with a larger cartridge. Pushing acartridge to its max is playing Russian roulette. I dont need that kind of excitement and surely dont need the cost both financially and physically. So when I hear someone saying that I loaded to this velocity I check to see what the books say. I guess that's just me.

 

[MS 9x56]

I wish bullet makers would bring back the round nosed bullets in heavey for caliber bullets. I can attest to the fact they hit harder and lead to shorter heavier blood trails. They are getting harder to find every year.