28 Gauge Recommendations

As others have pointed out, there is little to gain from going to a heavier load that cannot more effectively be accomplished with a larger gauge. I do know of a man who has a single shot 10 and loads his own 2 1/2 shells. I have never seen it in person but I assume it casts quite the patterns.

I am in the 28"+ camp for barrels, and 30"+ for sub gauges. I had the opportunity to shoot an XXV 25" before and at first I felt like I was way out of control, but I finally tamed the barrels and I did find that it has its place on fast risers. I still could not get it to do well on long shots though.
 
I don’t think drillings were ever really conceived of as effective tools for “shooting flying”. After all, most are stocked like rifles. They were ideal for nailing the occasional fox or feral cat from a “hochsitz”. They could be used on a drive hunt for the occasional hun or pheasant when boar were likely. But you would never encounter one on a driven hunt where boar were not a possibility.
 
I don’t think drillings were ever really conceived of as effective tools for “shooting flying”. After all, most are stocked like rifles. They were ideal for nailing the occasional fox or feral cat from a “hochsitz”. They could be used on a drive hunt for the occasional hun or pheasant when boar were likely. But you would never encounter one on a driven hunt where boar were not a possibility.

Makes sense. I have owned a few 16x16x857JR drillings with 27" barrels that had an underlever and a rounded style frame. Like everything, the German's have a long word to describe this obscure action type. (not a blitz) At any rate, these guns are not particularly valuable but they handled and carried like Dickson's chubby little sister. Not bad for a do-all gun and probably an ideal weapon for a deer hunter in heavy covert that takes a shot at grouse, woodcock, and turkey opportunistically. They weighed just shy of 7lbs and the stock dimensions were a bit more shotgun than rifle. (prince of wales or tiny grip cap, etc.)
 
for high crossover true pairs going about 60 mph. it works for me, at our last sporting clays shoot i ran three stations (3 true pairs at each station 18 shots). for the gravy shots 1 oz-1-1/8 oz at 1150 fps works. browning sporting clays limited 12 ga with 30" barrels.
 
...

The other exception is the pigeon ring. There 1 1/4 ounces of chilled shot from 32” full choke guns reign supreme. But it is a highly specialized discipline, where a pigeon’s fall - just inside or just outside the ring - can spell the difference in a multi-thousand dollar purse.

I had never heard of that game until my trainer and I went to Mesquite for the last day of training. They had an artificial course (ZZ birds I think it was called) the the "birds" would release a white "witness cap" affixed to a propeller when shot.

A couple of guys were training. My trainer had a conversation with one of them who mentioned that is all he shoots now as he is only a construction manager and now he is putting his daughter through medical school with his shooting.
 
I had never heard of that game until my trainer and I went to Mesquite for the last day of training. They had an artificial course (ZZ birds I think it was called) the the "birds" would release a white "witness cap" affixed to a propeller when shot.

A couple of guys were training. My trainer had a conversation with one of them who mentioned that is all he shoots now as he is only a construction manager and now he is putting his daughter through medical school with his shooting.
ZZ birds are interesting. But you really need to shoot a pigeon match someday (something that you will not find in California I am certain). It is the most challenging game that can be played with a shotgun. In the big shoots in Texas or Pennsylvania (go figure), the purses are significant. We had a group in Virginia/ Maryland that shot a friendly match once a month in West Virginia. Usually 30 shooters and everyone put a hundred in the pot. Each race winner got a share, and overall winner earned two shares (six in all). Lot of fun without sweating the kids' college fund.
 
Interesting comments on shot charge. Rookhawk is correct, a square charge (l/d=1) has been proven to produce the most effective patterns. Static patterning boards do not show the effect of shot strings. Read Bob Brister’s work on moving patterning boards. It is fascinating. If you really want an education on shot charge effectiveness, shoot a little FITASC. Those are LONG birds taken very effectively with 7/8 oz loads. I used federal’s paper hull international load when I shot competitively. It’s an incredible performer.

For day to day shooting I developed my own 3/4 oz 12 ga loads. It is extremely effective.

I’m with Red Leg on barrel length. I’m not a fan of Churchill. He seemed to be more of a promoter than a shooter. I’ve shot his guns, they don’t work for me. He claimed that swamped rib creates the illusion of longer barrels. The reality is, you shouldn’t be looking at the barrels! Do you look at your hand when you catch a ball? Same concept.

I primarily use the style taught by H&H, however some birds suggest a different approach (tight quartering for example are very effectively addressed with the pull away).

Just some thoughts from the cheap seats!
 
Have you considered a 28 Bore Beretta Model 486 Parallello side by side shotgun ?
They do use a single inertia based selective trigger , though . So not the most traditional of designs .
 
Have you considered a 28 Bore Beretta Model 486 Parallello side by side shotgun ?
They do use a single inertia based selective trigger , though . So not the most traditional of designs .

to my knowledge, it suffers the same ills as all these modern “American” guns. (I realize it’s Italian, but it’s made for Americans in the pejorative use of the term) It is built on an oversized frame, I believe a 20 gauge frame. At that point, might as well just have it as a 20 gauge.

Finding a true 28 gauge built on a true 28 gauge frame, this adhering to Greener’s rule of 96, making it a 5.5 pound to 5.75 pound gun, is a very rare thing. You have to be rich or you have to buy a vintage gun to get one. Since I’m not the former, my points in this thread are addressing the latter.

But if you want to have a gun that weighs less than a modern 28 gauge and shoots the same load with a better pattern, you can always own a vintage 12 bore side by side for 1/8th the money.

I believe the original load for a 28 gauge was 9/16 or 5/8 ounce of shot for a square load. If people went to kill pheasants today at far ranges, a vintage 16 bore can be had to shoot the original 7/8 ounce and 1 ounce loads to do that job. Buying a 7 or 7.5 pound modern 28 gauge and overstuffing it with a 15/16 ounce load sort of missed the spirit and purpose of the 28 gauge.
 
Interesting comments on shot charge. Rookhawk is correct, a square charge (l/d=1) has been proven to produce the most effective patterns. Static patterning boards do not show the effect of shot strings. Read Bob Brister’s work on moving patterning boards. It is fascinating. If you really want an education on shot charge effectiveness, shoot a little FITASC. Those are LONG birds taken very effectively with 7/8 oz loads. I used federal’s paper hull international load when I shot competitively. It’s an incredible performer.

For day to day shooting I developed my own 3/4 oz 12 ga loads. It is extremely effective.

I’m with Red Leg on barrel length. I’m not a fan of Churchill. He seemed to be more of a promoter than a shooter. I’ve shot his guns, they don’t work for me. He claimed that swamped rib creates the illusion of longer barrels. The reality is, you shouldn’t be looking at the barrels! Do you look at your hand when you catch a ball? Same concept.

I primarily use the style taught by H&H, however some birds suggest a different approach (tight quartering for example are very effectively addressed with the pull away).

Just some thoughts from the cheap seats!

agree with everything but suggesting Churchill was more a promoter than a shooter. He won the world championship in Monaco with a 25” barrel gun to prove the 30”-32” standard of the day was not an essential condition for excellence. In reality, it is the form, stance, and approach method that must jive with the gun. I do think the Churchill and Instinctive methods have their place, and I believe that it is arguably the best method for wingshooting, although it is not the best technique for clays or live pigeons. (But if we go hunting together, the bird will be dead by me before you get the safety off based upon the differences of our methods, in turn you’ll outscore me all things being equal by your methods in the shooting games)
 
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to my knowledge, it suffers the same ills as all these modern “American” guns. (I realize it’s Italian, but it’s made for Americans in the pejorative use of the term) It is built on an oversized frame, I believe a 20 gauge frame. At that point, might as well just have it as a 20 gauge.

Finding a true 28 gauge built on a true 28 gauge frame, this adhering to Greener’s rule of 96, making it a 5.5 pound to 5.75 pound gun, is a very rare thing. You have to be rich or you have to buy a vintage gun to get one. Since I’m not the former, my points in this thread are addressing the latter.

But if you want to have a gun that weighs less than a modern 28 gauge and shoots the same load with a better pattern, you can always own a vintage 12 bore side by side for 1/8th the money.

I believe the original load for a 28 gauge was 9/16 or 5/8 ounce of shot for a square load. If people went to kill pheasants today at far ranges, a vintage 16 bore can be had to shoot the original 7/8 ounce and 1 ounce loads to do that job. Buying a 7 or 7.5 pound modern 28 gauge and overstuffing it with a 15/16 ounce load sort of missed the spirit and purpose of the 28 gauge.
I am 100 % inclined to agree with you , Rook Hawk . The most beautiful 28 Bore side by side shot gun which have have ever fired ... Was actually an ornate Westley Richards Drop Lock Ejector with double triggers and improved modified chokes on both the barrels . It accomplished splendid results on our Bangladeshi quail , when used with Eley Hawk brand # 6 bird shot cartridges .
 
I am 100 % inclined to agree with you , Rook Hawk . The most beautiful 28 Bore side by side shot gun which have have ever fired ... Was actually an ornate Westley Richards Drop Lock Ejector with double triggers and improved modified chokes on both the barrels . It accomplished splendid results on our Bangladeshi quail , when used with Eley Hawk brand # 6 bird shot cartridges .

@Major Khan sounds amazing, I’d love to see that gun! I’m curious, do they still hunt quail in Bangladesh or is it haram? I don’t know much about cultural norms of East Pakistan but my Arab friends in the gulf didn’t like that the birds were dead before they could be cut, believing it unclean. They stuck with falconry so they could dispatch birds by the knife instead. Curious if societal norms toward bird hunting in Bangladesh has changed since independence or if changes of religious rules have occurred towards wingshooting?
 
agree with everything but suggesting Churchill was more a promoter than a shooter. He won the world championship in Monaco with a 25” barrel gun to prove the 30”-32” standard of the day was not an essential condition for excellence. In reality, it is the form, stance, and approach method that must jive with the gun. I do think the Churchill and Instinctive methods have their place, and I believe that it is arguably the best method for wingshooting, although it is not the best technique for clays or live pigeons. (But if we go hunting together, the bird will be dead by me before you get the safety off based upon the differences of our methods, in turn you’ll outscore me all things being equal by your methods in the shooting games)

I’ll take that bet
 
@Major Khan sounds amazing, I’d love to see that gun! I’m curious, do they still hunt quail in Bangladesh or is it haram? I don’t know much about cultural norms of East Pakistan but my Arab friends in the gulf didn’t like that the birds were dead before they could be cut, believing it unclean. They stuck with falconry so they could dispatch birds by the knife instead. Curious if societal norms toward bird hunting in Bangladesh has changed since independence or if changes of religious rules have occurred towards wingshooting?
We do not follow that interpretation of Islam in Bangladesh ( Like most religions , there are multiple sects of Islam ) . Every person whom I hunt with ( Myself included ) will only cut the animal’s throat , once it has succumbed to it’s gun shot wound . For any game animal , here is our custom :
> We shoot the game animal , intending to kill it with the 1st shot ... Which is some thing that all ethical hunters should always opt for .
> As soon as the animal is dead , we use a knife to horizontally cut it’s throat ... Taking care to sever both the jugular veins .
> While doing this , we simply quietly recite “ Bismillah Hir Rahman Ir Rahim “
( Praise Be To Almighty Allah . For He Is Most Benevolent And Merciful To All Of His Creations ) .

And that is that . We may commence butchering the animal once it has completely bled out . Bangladesh is a secular nation . We specifically fought and gained independence from Pakistan , just so that we do not have Shariah Law dictating our country . Even though most Bangladeshi people are Muslim , we follow a far more liberal interpretation of Islam ( Where we follow only the teachings of the Quran and NOT the books which were written 193 years after our Prophet Muhammad passed away ) and we did not want to follow Shariah Law at all . I personally find the idea of cutting a still living game bird’s throat to be quite barbaric and I will never hunt with some one who follows these practices .

And of course , bird hunting is carried out in Bangladesh. Game birds are a normal part of our diet . We can either hunt in forested area with police permission , or on private land at the land owner’s discretion . I would never live in a country where hunting is prohibited . That is why I moved to Bangladesh from India , in 1972 .
A48D76AA-F07E-4E96-9B12-F80FADEF7EAC.jpeg
D799A169-1A38-4AF8-9324-A91D63B25D92.jpeg

Both the Greylag Goose and the Red Jungle Fowl were shot , this year . I wrote a review about the 12 Bore 2.75 inch Lyavale Express English AAA cartridges , which I had used on my goose shikar ... On African Hunting Forums , a few months ago . Here is the link : https://www.africahunting.com/threads/impressed-with-lyavale-express-cartridges.55691/

The owner of the Westley Richards 28 Bore side by side shot gun is actually related to @Kawshik Rahman and so I should easily be able to acquire a photograph of it , for your perusal .
 
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Wow, so much information on this thread (that gave me a glazed look in my eyes ;) ). Interestingly Churchill's book is on Kindle Unlimited. Downloaded it for some light reading to understand what you guys are talking about.
 
ZZ birds are interesting. But you really need to shoot a pigeon match someday (something that you will not find in California I am certain). It is the most challenging game that can be played with a shotgun. ...

No, in CA one would be arrested most likely. I am just starting my shotgun journey, amazing the whole sub-culture that exists and whole different disciplines on the game side. Funny that Sporting Clays guys look upon trap and skeet guys with a bit of contempt in regards to shooting ability.
 
No, in CA one would be arrested most likely. I am just starting my shotgun journey, amazing the whole sub-culture that exists and whole different disciplines on the game side. Funny that Sporting Clays guys look upon trap and skeet guys with a bit of contempt in regards to shooting ability.
That is true. Both are highly specialized games with highly specialized equipment. The grotesque positions some skeet shooters employ ....... now I am doing it. Regrettably, clays is getting that way with tricked out OU’s and guys furiously switching choke tubes between birds.

Our group in Northern VA had some fellows who could really shoot. We would often meet up at the clays range for a morning’s sport. Nothing was more fun than having a couple of these swells paired up with us. They would have their gun carts and specialized OU’s while we were using SxS’s that had been serving someone for a hundred years. Shooting a 48 was particularly pleasing on a day like that. ;)
 
i don,t care what shotgun you use, 48 is way beyond me. low 40,s are a super day for me, i shoot double barrels-pumps-semiautos and over unders in all gauges except .410. three of my favorite shotguns are a browning xs skeet in 20ga, a remington 1187 in 20 ga, a browning bss in 20 ga.
 
I knew that clays were changing the first time I saw someone show up with the Oakley logo on everything.
 

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Nick BOWKER HUNTING SOUTH AFRICA wrote on EGS-HQ's profile.
Hi EGS

I read your thread with interest. Would you mind sending me that PDF? May I put it on my website?

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Please send a list of books and prices.
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Shot me email if Beretta 28 ga DU is available
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