28 Gauge Recommendations

[rookhawk]

I knew that clays were changing the first time I saw someone show up with the Oakley logo on everything.

All depends what you're after. Clays is a sport, one now frequented by many people that do not hunt and have no interest in hunting. The guns are tailored to this sport or are multi-discipline sport/hunt guns having lost many of the qualities of a pure hunting weapon in favor of one SKU to satisfy some customers for all uses.

But yes, its sort of its own cult now just as wingshooting guns and live pigeon guns are their own cult with their own tools of the trade.

For me, I never had nor do have a desire to be a good sporting clays shooter. I've won a few events over the years by accident, but only because my techniques happened to work better for that particular course on that day versus "proper" clay shooting techniques. (sometimes sustained lead or butt-beak-bang is a hindrance) I want to be the best wingshooter I can be, so my guns, stance, mount, and preparations are all ass-backward from a competitive shooter. In fact, I don't want to see the menu and I don't want to know if its a true or report pair before they fly, I want to see if I can identify, time, and shoot correctly under spontaneous conditions as it would be during a hunt.

Suffice to say, my silly ways mean I'm not inclined to break an 80 on a course very often.

 

[Saul]

I only shoot clays for practice and fun so count me out of the competition world too.

 

[WAB]

I love bird hunting so much I took up field trialing and competitive shooting to improve my hunting skills. Both sports took on a life of their own. Not being as smart as you guys, it took me years to realize that I was honing skills with no practical field application.

 

[WAB]

For those just getting in, some good reference material (some mentioned previously):

- anything by Gough Thomas Garwood or Gough Thomas. Possibly the best analysis of the art and science of British game guns
- Move, Mount, Shoot. An excellent book on British shooting technique.
- Ken Davie’s book. Ken was the head instructor at H&H for years. He does a good job of laying out their technique.
- Bob Brister’s book. I believe it is the art and science of shotgunning.

 

[Tanks]

I love bird hunting so much I took up field trialing and competitive shooting to improve my hunting skills. Both sports took on a life of their own. Not being as smart as you guys, it took me years to realize that I was honing skills with no practical field application.

I'd submit that honing shooting skills does have practical field application. I am just getting into "Sporting Clays" and I can see how it could help.

 

[WAB]

I'd submit that honing shooting skills does have practical field application. I am just getting into "Sporting Clays" and I can see how it could help.

It absolutely does. However, a huge part of shooting is properly addressing the target and a smooth gun mount into the flight path. When you take the gun mount out of the equation (now allowed in NA competition), you have taken a huge piece of the equation out. International skeet and FITASC keep the mount but many of the targets are not realistic. I’ve shot incoming FITASC targets that, if missed, would land more than 40 yards from the shooter.

A casual round of sporting clays, shot low gun and with variable release, is fantastic training for hunting.

 

[Red Leg]

It absolutely does. However, a huge part of shooting is properly addressing the target and a smooth gun mount into the flight path. When you take the gun mount out of the equation (now allowed in NA competition), you have taken a huge piece of the equation out. International skeet and FITASC keep the mount but many of the targets are not realistic. I’ve shot incoming FITASC targets that, if missed, would land more than 40 yards from the shooter.

A casual round of sporting clays, shot low gun and with variable release, is fantastic training for hunting.

Agreed. I only shoot low gun at clays (will do it at skeet too in order to frustrate the gun gizmo crowd - a 24 or 25 with a SxS is disturbing enough as it is to them). But it is still just repetition. Addressing the target properly to set up movement to the bird is the single most important thing to me in making a shot. One throws that away when shooting with a mounted gun. And in clays, there is no reason not to be able to shoot mid to high forties (50-bird round) with a low gun with just a little work.

There are two disciplines when shooting pigeons. In a "box bird" shoot, a bird is placed in each of seven boxes arranged in front of the shooter. The bird usually is literally spring launched. Five will be released during each "race' so the shooter never knows which box. The shooter uses a high gun and must fire twice at the bird. The bird only scores if it falls within the ring. The second and more traditional is a "columbaire" shoot where the bird is actually thrown in the air by a skilled trapper who does everything possible to throw off the gun. This is fired from a low gun and is the ultimate live pigeon, and frankly, shotgun competition.

 

[Tanks]

It absolutely does. However, a huge part of shooting is properly addressing the target and a smooth gun mount into the flight path. When you take the gun mount out of the equation (now allowed in NA competition), you have taken a huge piece of the equation out...

A casual round of sporting clays, shot low gun and with variable release, is fantastic training for hunting.

I have already realized, for me, that if I start mounted it throws my timing off completely, not to mention not seeing birds coming from my right (I am a lefty) until much later if mounted. So, I will stick with starting un-mounted so I have the same start regardless of the direction of the bird.

 

[WAB]

I have already realized, for me, that if I start mounted it throws my timing off completely, not to mention not seeing birds coming from my right (I am a lefty) until much later if mounted. So, I will stick with starting un-mounted so I have the same start regardless of the direction of the bird.

A good practice technique is to face yourself in the mirror and mount the gun as if to shoot yourself in the eye. If the barrels dip at all it was a poor mount with too much use of your right hand (assuming you are right handed). Once you learn to drive to the target with your forward hand without any dip to the barrels, you then begin to mount while inserting the barrels on an imaginary flight line. Say the corner between wall and ceiling in your living room. If you are pivoting properly over your forward hip, you can draw straight lines with the barrel on any angle. If you are not, your body will bind and the barrels will arc down off the line.

Enjoy your new hobby!

 

[Saul]

I insist on shooting clays unmounted, much to the chagrin of fellow shooters.

 

[WAB]

I insist on shooting clays unmounted, much to the chagrin of fellow shooters.

It’s interesting how shooters in the US have ‘dumbed’ down our clays games to achieve higher scores, and in the process, reduced their value. Skeet was originally shot low gun and the course was laid out in a full circle. The shift to a half circle was made for obvious safety reasons, but the shift to high gun is mind boggling.

 

[rookhawk]

It’s interesting how shooters in the US have ‘dumbed’ down our clays games to achieve higher scores, and in the process, reduced their value. Skeet was originally shot low gun and the course was laid out in a full circle. The shift to a half circle was made for obvious safety reasons, but the shift to high gun is mind boggling.

There is skeet (high gun) and international/Olympic skeet (low gun). Two different games with different leagues, scores, etc.

 

[WAB]

There is skeet (high gun) and international/Olympic skeet (low gun). Two different games with different leagues, scores, etc.

Yep, and significantly different targets. American skeet throws a bird 55 yards, international 65 yards. The difference in speed is dramatic. That combined with the ultra low gun and variable release makes international skeet sporty to say the least!

 

[Tanks]

I insist on shooting clays unmounted, much to the chagrin of fellow shooters.

So, which unmounted method do you use, pic 1 or pic 2/3?

 

[rookhawk]

Closest to position 1 above, although the Churchill/instinctive methods call for the left foot to be a bit further forward with a slightly wider stance for balance. (so you can swing for velocity without loss of balance, shooting with no lead on the target) This leadless shooting technique works when your body is balanced and you are shooting as a fitted gun touches your cheek and shoulder, the motion of the body actually creating the follow through rather than your arms/gun swinging through the target.

It's a great technique for wingshooting where you have no clue where the bird will emerge and you need to rapidly acquire and shoot. With clay games you are more aware of presentation and thus don't need such a flexible stance to acquire a target.

The thing that is "proper" wingshooting about the first picture is that the bead is directly beneath his eyes, thus the forend thrusts directly out like a bayonet to strike the bird while the stock rises to the cheek/shoulder to be fired. This is textbook wingshooting. This is not textbook clay shooting.

 

[Saul]

Position one with my left foot ever so slightly forward. And when I say ever so slightly I mean it. I did not even realize that my feet were not even until an instructor pointed it out to me. My left foot is also slightly bigger.

 

[rookhawk]

 

[Red Leg]

Closest to position 1 above, although the Churchill/instinctive methods call for the left foot to be a bit further forward with a slightly wider stance for balance. (so you can swing for velocity without loss of balance, shooting with no lead on the target) This leadless shooting technique works when your body is balanced and you are shooting as a fitted gun touches your cheek and shoulder, the motion of the body actually creating the follow through rather than your arms/gun swinging through the target.

It's a great technique for wingshooting where you have no clue where the bird will emerge and you need to rapidly acquire and shoot. With clay games you are more aware of presentation and thus don't need such a flexible stance to acquire a target.

The thing that is "proper" wingshooting about the first picture is that the bead is directly beneath his eyes, thus the forend thrusts directly out like a bayonet to strike the bird while the stock rises to the cheek/shoulder to be fired. This is textbook wingshooting. This is not textbook clay shooting.

No. 1 is unworkable for me unless I am waiting the signal the drive is about to start and I am bored.

For me, what matters is what I do throughout the shot sequence. I always address the target with my left foot, sliding my weight forward onto that leg. Thus my weight at the shot is over my left leg. This allows me maximum flexibility in adjusting to movement or speed of the bird. It is instinctive and automatic, which, in turn drives the gun toward the target. If everything goes correctly, the gun goes off as it hits shoulder and cheek. However, if the bird jinks, or is hit by a "poacher", then I have maximum flexibility to switch to another target and either a sustained or follow and through lead depending on the presentation. It is also ideal for taking down a double without having to go through the whole remount drill.

I should add "instinctive" is actually bringing the gun through the bird with sustained movement (not sustained lead). The trigger is simply slapped a little earlier (or later, depending how one wants to look at it) in the process. Simply poking the gun at the target and pulling the trigger is a recipe for a long afternoon.

I do not care for the English inbound style at all. Note the second photo in the @rookhawk group. This is classic English style with body weight on the off leg and foot. I may end up there, but I address the bird as always with the left foot and weight forward, and will only come off of that if I am late. Even excellent shots will shoot a far higher average if a high bird is taken to the front rather than directly overhead.

 

[rookhawk]

@Red Leg the overall approach sounds good, except the lead with the left?. That’s a fairly “clays centric” process. What happens when you need to shoot hard right? Is the method workable when you need to shift weight and take a shot off the balls of your feet in the opposite direction than intended?

And yes, I spent a lot of time on high pheasant so I am prone to shooting a form that allows a vertical shot, although that’s not needed in most rough shooting. Probably why my form is based on the biased of how I was taught and what I shot most. (Doves and driven) Believe it or not, never killed a woodcock or a quail with a gun before! (But I’m open to invitations!)

 

[Tanks]

What was interesting in regards to the Churchill method foot placement is that, it is almost the same isosceles stance favored by handgun and three-gun competition shooters of today.