.223 for Steinbok, Duiker, Klipspringer?

[Nhoro]

Once I met a guy while we were both on safari. He had just shot a grysbuck with his .375 (sorry I don't know what bullet). It made a neat hole through the rib cage. In Zimbabwe no antelope is smaller than the grysbuck.

Blue duiker and suni are smaller but i dont think anyone has the on quota. Pretty rare so probably grysbok is the smallest huntable species. Low velocity solid is best as you say. I think maybe one of the old english rook guns would be great. A lead cast bullet from a revolver calibre would be good too- ma ybe a lever gun in 357 mag or 30-30.

 

[Daisy]

Believe it or not, a larger faster bullet applied in the same spot is generally more effective than a smaller bullet. And yes, I do own a .223.

That’s just not true. What if it’s a different bullet?

Also larger bullets are often not applied to same spot at same rate as smaller ones. That’s why 1-2moa is acceptable on large caliber and not for smaller.

 

[Daisy]

I’m not saying .223 isn’t a great caliber. If I was forced to own just 3 rifles/calibers it’s likely the .223 would be one of them. I can’t help but notice you seem to keep comparing coyote hunting to Tiny 10 Hunting. Would you mind sharing how many African Safaris you’ve been on/with who? How many Tiny 10 Species have you shot, and how many were with the .223? Where do you do most of your hunting with a .223?

I’ve spoken to more than 1 PH who loves a .223. Many use it for culling animals like springbok and Impala with headshots. When speaking with one of these PH’s (who likely shoots more African game in a year with a .223 than I’ll ever shoot in my lifetime) about rifle choice for a dedicated Tiny 10 hunt he told me to stick with the .375 even if I was bringing multiple rifles. When speaking with a hunter in Namibia about his Dik-Dik hunt, he used a .22Mag and was unable to locate or recover his Dik-Dik but claimed it was a good shot.

I have shot one.

That said, I would trust someone less on this conversation that their only thoughts on the issue were “I used 375 and it was great.” Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind because it often tricks you into thinking what you did was right, when it is often dead wrong.

I could easily be wrong. I often am. But can you concede there is no where else in world you would go to hunt an animal the size of the tiny 10, and take a 375 solid? This started , imo, because 375 is the most used gun in Africa. Someone said let’s try a solid since most hunters already had a 375. And it works well. It works, in that there is no doubt.

That has now morphed into telling people it’s the best choice for the tiny 10. Those are two different things. I use coyote because they are similar size thin skinned animals. And a 375 is absolutely not the best gun to take to hunt them.

 

[Don458]

Hi

lots of good data on that.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET.


“Bullets matter more than headstamps.”

“Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”.

I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened.

The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

Looks like it won’t link. But Google and search 223 for bear deer elk moose.

Hundreds of pages with videos. Pics. Post mortems. Almost no recoil. Better well placed shots. Frangible bullet with lots of damage.

There you go. Advantages explained.

What Rifle are you shooing ? You would need a 1/7 twist barrel to stabilize the 77 grs. My bolt .223 has a 1-12 twist only 62 gr or lighter. Was curious if any new manufacturers offer 1/7 in a bolt I do have AR platforms with the 1/7.

 

[Daisy]

What Rifle are you shooing ? You would need a 1/7 twist barrel to stabilize the 77 grs. My bolt .223 has a 1-12 twist only 62 gr or lighter. Was curious if any new manufacturers offer 1/7 in a bolt I do have AR platforms with the 1/7.

My ar is a colt le6920. It has 1/7 twist. 1/8 will stabilize 77TMK also. Can also use 73eldm

You can buy an appropriate barrel cheap, or a whole upper for three to $400.

 

[Don458]

My ar is a colt le6920. It has 1/7 twist. 1/8 will stabilize 77TMK also. Can also use 73eldm

You can buy an appropriate barrel cheap, or a whole upper for three to $400.

Ok. I have the same colt, 6920. I know using the Evil rifle is frowned upon in certain states. Lol.

 

[Daisy]

Just asked my ph. His answer.

 

[Daisy]

Ok. I have the same colt, 6920. I know using the Evil rifle is frowned upon in certain states. Lol.

I’d move from those states. Haha. I’m gonna have a Blaser r8 barrel made in 223 with 1/8. I lobe my large calibers but a small lightweight 223 is nice a lot of the time.

 

[Daisy]

Ok. I have the same colt, 6920. I know using the Evil rifle is frowned upon in certain states. Lol.

Factory colt barrel has 1/7. You could source one of those cheap and just screw it on

 

[Don458]

I’d move from those states. Haha. I’m gonna have a Blaser r8 barrel made in 223 with 1/8. I lobe my large calibers but a small lightweight 223 is nice a lot of the time.

I did. Lol. Ny. To Fl. F- Ny. They are even doing background checks to buy a box of ammo, the same as if you would a firearm now totally insane.

 

[Daisy]

I did. Lol. Ny. To Fl. F- Ny. They are even doing background checks to buy a box of ammo, the same as if you would a firearm now totally insane.

Insane. I’m in Alabama so just up the road. If ever coming through just PM me and we will go shoot or hunt.

 

[Don458]

Insane. I’m in Alabama so just up the road. If ever coming through just PM me and we will go shoot or hunt.

I might take you up on that was looking for a place in Alabama for Deer

 

[DG870]

Tikka makes the t3 in 223 with a 1:8 twist according to their website. That will stabilize 69 grain and maybe the 77 grain bullets.

 

[Daisy]

Tikka makes the t3 in 223 with a 1:8 twist according to their website. That will stabilize 69 grain and maybe the 77 grain bullets.

It will both.

 

[NE 7x57]

Tikka makes the t3 in 223 with a 1:8 twist according to their website. That will stabilize 69 grain and maybe the 77 grain bullets.

My Tikka will stabilize the 77gr Tipped Match King and the 77 gr Match King. Shoots either very accurately.

If I was hunting these tiny critters and wanted minimal damage neither of those bullets would be my choice. The MK may or may not fragment and the TMK will fragment and create massive damage. I've shot coyotes with both and of the two the TMK is especially effective but messy. In a rifle that would stabilize them a heavy for caliber, tough bullet might work. I think that Lady Savage has a 1-9 twist though.

If all she wants to shoot are the little ones and distance isn't an issue maybe a nice 22LR or 22Mag might fit the bill.

 

[DG870]

I have no experience shooting the small antelope mentioned, but I’ve shot lots of coyotes using 55 grain Hornady soft points. My calling rifle is an older Weatherby Vanguard VGL with a 20 inch pencil barrel with a 1-12 twist. I rarely take a shot more than 150 yards and usually within 75 yards. Typically they drop in their tracks and there is no exit wound so it doesn’t tear the hides up. The shorter barrel probably limits the velocity but I’ve never chronographed it, it just seems to work so I don’t mess with it. I’ve got ARs with faster twist barrels, but the little Weatherby only weighs about 6.5 pounds so it’s easier to carry.

 

[Daisy]

I have no experience shooting the small antelope mentioned, but I’ve shot lots of coyotes using 55 grain Hornady soft points. My calling rifle is an older Weatherby Vanguard VGL with a 20 inch pencil barrel with a 1-12 twist. I rarely take a shot more than 150 yards and usually within 75 yards. Typically they drop in their tracks and there is no exit wound so it doesn’t tear the hides up. The shorter barrel probably limits the velocity but I’ve never chronographed it, it just seems to work so I don’t mess with it. I’ve got ARs with faster twist barrels, but the little Weatherby only weighs about 6.5 pounds so it’s easier to carry.

Yeah. Been my experience also. Doubt you would carry your 375hh out there to coyote hunt with. Haha.

 

[DG870]

Yeah. Been my experience also. Doubt you would carry your 375hh out there to coyote hunt with. Haha.

375 would probably kill a coyote but it would be A LOT more expensive to use. Hides aren’t worth that much anymore.

 

[62flint]

What amount a 17hmr

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I have shot one.

That said, I would trust someone less on this conversation that their only thoughts on the issue were “I used 375 and it was great.” Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind because it often tricks you into thinking what you did was right, when it is often dead wrong.

I could easily be wrong. I often am. But can you concede there is no where else in world you would go to hunt an animal the size of the tiny 10, and take a 375 solid? This started , imo, because 375 is the most used gun in Africa. Someone said let’s try a solid since most hunters already had a 375. And it works well. It works, in that there is no doubt.

That has now morphed into telling people it’s the best choice for the tiny 10. Those are two different things. I use coyote because they are similar size thin skinned animals. And a 375 is absolutely not the best gun to take to hunt them.

So you’ve shot 1 Tiny Ten Animal. You didn’t answer the rest of the questions; What was it with, Number of Safaris, Locations/Outfitters, etc?

The best gun to hunt them is whatever you have in your hand when you see them. Small animal/small caliber makes sense, Small animal/big caliber defies logic but it works. I know a 22 in the right place will work great, we’ve all heard the saying a .22LR has killed more deer than anything else, but that doesn’t equate to the best gun. Ask you PH how many he’s lost with a small 22 type gun. Now ask him how many he’s lost and not found with the 375.

The best gun for me is small hole in, small hole out, dead right there. A 375 checks all those boxes, and of the 3 options I’ve used, it’s my favorite. Knowing someone who’s a good shot, does several safaris every year to Africa to a multitude of African countries that had a bad experience with a 22WMR on a Dik-Dik gives me pause. Having shot a lot of stuff with a .223 and .308 I know the type of exits I get on deer/coyotes/bobcats. I know the exits I got on T10 with the 308, so I suspect similar results on a .223 which are more explosive than NA Game. I’m expecting a bigger exit on T10 than NA game with a .223 because it’s traveling faster than the .308. A 308 on T10 produced a much larger and explosive exit on T10 than on NA game you’ve mentioned. I really think the issue is velocity and a T10 animals lack of muscle + thin skin that causes a lot of extra damage.