12 ga. .690 Round Ball

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
Thank you Sarg, I appreciate the kind words and you are more than welcome!

I'm doing some chronograph work right now, well actually I'm in the truck trying to cool off and getting a drink of water, but I should have a little bit more information this evening or tomorrow, and I'll post it as soon as get everything finished and recorded.

Round Ball
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
To start off with, I needed to find a new wad to use, and "barrel tested" each one of these to see which one provided the best bore fit.

My reason for changing wads is that the loads in my gun all but disintegrated the wads I was using when I went to a higher velocity.

IMG_20210728_170324.jpg


I also had to use a heavier nitro card and or wool felt in the bottom of the shot cup of each wad tested. This was to keep the Round Ball from setting back into the cushioning section of the wads, destroying the accuracy potential of each wad and load tested.

I am using my Remington 870 with a 34" Hastings Wadlock barrel, which has 6 raised lands and is straight rifled. The addition of the extended choke makes the overall barrel length 35 inches.

IMG_20210728_173943.jpg


IMG_20210728_174026.jpg


I know a lot of guys that scoff at long barreled guns, but I am one who prefers them. One reason is that it allows for maximum obtainable velocity, and when tested against a barrel 10" shorter, even at the same velocity readings, the longer barrel actually shot a flatter trajectory with less drop from muzzle out to 200 yards.

Actual muzzle velocity of my new loads is now 1,710 fps. with a pressure reading of 10,800 psi.. Both velocity and pressure were very consistent.

During deer season, when the weather can vary from cold to very cold, both the pressure and velocity will be less than what it tested on a 97 degree Summer day.

My gun has always shot best with "fast" loads, so I am hoping this load will prove to be no different.

This Sunday is supposed to be a little bit cooler than what it is now, so I am going to wait till after church to test the accuracy of my new loads, and I'll let you guys know then how well they shoot, or don't shoot if that happens to be the case.

Round Ball
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
I have had several guys ask how a specific wad is "fit" to each type of shotgun barrel, and this is how I do it.

Remove the barrel from your gun.

Remove the choke tube.

Insert a wad into the chamber.

Take a 5/8" diameter wooden dowel or non marring rod and push the wad down through the bore.

It should take 3-5 pounds of pressure to push the wad through the barrel from the breech end to and out the muzzle.

If it takes little to no pressure to push a wad through the barrel, the wad is too small and accuracy will suffer.
IMG_20210729_120953~2.jpg


With my 34" Wadlock barrel, this is the wad that fit "my" barrel perfectly. It took about 3 1/2 pounds of pressure to push it through the barrel and out the muzzle.
IMG_20210729_123938~2.jpg


This wad will require a 1/8" 20 ga. nitro card in the base of the shot cup to get the Round Ball to a perfect height for crimping, as well as protecting the base of the shot cup from the pressures of the Round Ball when a round is fired.
IMG_20210729_125105~2.jpg


IMG_20210729_124227~2.jpg


These loads crimp very well!
IMG_20210729_135018~2.jpg

Round Ball
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
Before heading out to mow, I thought I would take the time to answer repeat questions I have gotten through PM or email.

Q - Have you customized your shotgun barrels in any way and why?

A - Yes, the forcing cone has been lengthened 2" and polished to a mirror finish. The reason for doing this, is that with a short and abrupt forcing cone, the wad can be damaged and the Round Ball can become deformed, ie., out of round, and as such accuracy can suffer greatly.

Q - What are your favorite wads to use?

A - I personally like the Federal 12S3, Winchester AA12, Remington Figure 8 and most any other wad that can handle these high velocity Round Ball loads. I do not and will not use any of the Clay Buster wads, as they do not have the same strength resilience as what factory wads do. Something else that I do, is coat all wads with motor mica. This greatly reduces the wad to bore friction, and keeps plastic build up to an absolute bare minimum.

Q - Are all of your Round Ball loads high velocity?

A - No, they are not. Other Round Ball loads are used for regulating double barrel shotguns, whether they be an O/U or SxS. Other loads are for personal defense. Depending on their particular use, Round Ball velocity can vary from 1,200 fps. to 1,800 fps..

Q - What is the energy level of your hunting loads?

A - Hunting loads carry well over a ton of energy at 100 yards.

Q - What is the as accuracy potential of your loads!

A - Since most of my customers shoot double barrel shotguns, a lot of the pictures and targets that guy's send me, show two holes in a target that are an inch or two apart at 30 yards. Some have shown 3" or less at 50 yards, and guys with a well tuned pump or semi-auto can do under 3" at 75 yards very consistently.

Q - Can I buy directly from you?

A - Yes. I do not source my loads out to anyone! I load and sell 10,000 rounds a year, and very seldom will I exceed that limit. I load one month a year, and if a customer drops from my order list, then I will pick up a new customer from my waiting list and start loading for them.

Any other questions, please feel free to just ask!

Round Ball
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
Answers to two more questions that I just received.

Q - What temperature range are your Round Ball loads tested at?

A - My loads have been tested in the heat of Summer at 115 degrees and in the dead of Winter to -20 degrees below zero. If you only hunt in the freezing cold, loads are changed specifically for cold weather shooting. Same for hot weather shooting.

Q - What pressures are your loads loaded to?

A - No load is ever loaded to exceed an operating pressure limit of 10,800 psi.. I have my own test barrels and chronographs and test every load that I have, for both pressure and velocity.

Round Ball
 

AZDAVE

AH legend
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
3,829
Media
189
Hunting reports
Africa
5
Hunted
South Africa,Namibia, Alaska,lower 48
I have enjoyed this thread a good bit, I have a 12 bore underhammer that I use for elk and deer, and have a 20ga double rifle that shoots factory Winchester slugs into 3in at 75M. Working up loads for it with other slug options. Looks like I need to also try round balls.
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
Thank you AZDAVE.

I have molded and shot various slugs of different weights and designs, but I always come back to the Round Ball loads.

Do you use patches or wads when loading for your 20 ga. double rifle? Either one can be used with a Round Ball as long as they are properly sized to the bore.

Round Ball
 

AZDAVE

AH legend
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
3,829
Media
189
Hunting reports
Africa
5
Hunted
South Africa,Namibia, Alaska,lower 48
@Round Ball I use patches in the 12 bore muzzleloader. But so far I have just used the slugs the way I bought them. I need to find a mold for one. I have a number of round balls that will work, have them for a 62 Cal muzzle loader project I still need to build.
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
I would think a .62 caliber muzzle loader would have some serious thump to it. Since you are going to build it, what length barrel do you think you would use, and what velocity do you think you would be looking at for those round balls?

Round Ball
 

AZDAVE

AH legend
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
2,265
Reaction score
3,829
Media
189
Hunting reports
Africa
5
Hunted
South Africa,Namibia, Alaska,lower 48
The barrel is currently 36in. I will decide on what looks best but expect it to be somewhere in the 30-36in range. I am expecting velocity to be in the 1750-1850 range. My double regulated with most slugs in the 1175-1200fps .
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
At least for deer hunting, sounds like you would have an easy 200 yard gun! I sure hope you will post pictures of it when you get it built.

Since I now have a shotshell wad that can safely handle 1,700 fps. with my Round Ball loads without coming apart, I am really looking forward to seeing what kind of accuracy I can get out of it tomorrow.

Where I will be hunting at, one point where the deer enter the field, will be a 75 yard shot. Another point where they jump the fence and come to my side of the property, is also 75 yards. So from where I am set up at, it is like a big V with me being at the bottom point.

So with my hunting set up being as it is, I will test my loads out tomorrow at 75 yards and see just how well my new loads do, and post the results when finished.

Round Ball
 

flatwater bill

AH legend
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
3,424
Media
25
Hunting reports
Africa
4
Asia/M.East
1
Member of
NRA endowment member/Life member
Hunted
All 6 Continents
RB.............I don't see a rear sight on your 870. Are you testing accuracy with an optical sight or rear sight that clamps on the rib or attaches to the receiver? (if you already mentioned, I missed it)..............thanks...............FW Bill
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
FW Bill,

shooting relatively close range, meaning 75 yards and less, I'm going to use the bead sights that are on the barrel.

When I checked point of aim with my 1,200 fps. test loads at 50 yards, centering the small center bead directly behind the front bead, I could keep 3 Round Ball holes touching in the target very consistently, as long as I did my part and put the beads where I was suppose to.

Depending on how well these loads shoot at 75 yards, if I decide to later test these loads at 100 yards and 150 yards when the weather finally cools down, then I will put a mount on the receiver and add a scope for more precise shooting.

Round Ball
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
We had a storm getting ready to roll through this afternoon, so this is all I got done.

Range was 75 yards.

7 shot group.

"Target" was 8 1/2" diameter.

IMG_20210801_154702.jpg

You might have to zoom in to see the target in the background.
IMG_20210801_154910.jpg

IMG_20210801_170111~2.jpg

IMG_20210801_165712~2.jpg


Group was a little bit high at 75 yards, and should drop right in there in the center at 100 yards.

Hopefully I can get back out to do some more testing next weekend.

Round Ball
 

Trogon

Gold supporter
AH enthusiast
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
435
Reaction score
816
Location
Southwestern Ohio
Media
23
Hunting reports
Africa
1
USA/Canada
1
Member of
DU, RGS/AWS, NRA
Hunted
Eastern Cape, SA; KY, OH, IN, WI, AL, KS, ND, TX-USA
@Round Ball , thank you for sharing , this is a very interesting thread. I used a Remington 870 Express in 12 gauge for a couple decades in Ohio (it was shotgun or muzzleloader for a long time), I think your loads would have had much better penetration than the Remington Sluggers I used.
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
You're welcome Trogon.

When tested in ballistics jelatin against Remington's Federal's and Winchester's highest velocity Foster style slug loads, my Round Ball loads penetrated a full 1/3 deeper!

Tested against Lightfield and Breneke slug loads, my Round Ball loads penetrated deeper than them as well!

As far as the loads tested today, I'm a little disappointed in the accuracy of them. I was expecting 3" groups instead of a 6" group, but a scope may get the accuracy down to a more acceptable level.

Round Ball
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
I put a scope on my Remington 870 over the weekend, and shot a couple of 5 shot groups at 100 yards with my 1,700 fps. Round Ball loads.

First 5-shot group at 100 yards measured 4" center to center.

Second 5-shot group at 100 yards measured 3 1/4" center to center.

Sorry I don't have any pictures of these groups, but I did not realize that I has sweat on my iphone's camera lens, and the pictures were to blurry to really make out what you were looking at.

I am really looking forward to this year's deer season!

Round Ball
 

Wildrangeringreen

New member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
11
Reaction score
7
Before heading out to mow, I thought I would take the time to answer repeat questions I have gotten through PM or email.

Q - Have you customized your shotgun barrels in any way and why?

A - Yes, the forcing cone has been lengthened 2" and polished to a mirror finish. The reason for doing this, is that with a short and abrupt forcing cone, the wad can be damaged and the Round Ball can become deformed, ie., out of round, and as such accuracy can suffer greatly.

Q - What are your favorite wads to use?

A - I personally like the Federal 12S3, Winchester AA12, Remington Figure 8 and most any other wad that can handle these high velocity Round Ball loads. I do not and will not use any of the Clay Buster wads, as they do not have the same strength resilience as what factory wads do. Something else that I do, is coat all wads with motor mica. This greatly reduces the wad to bore friction, and keeps plastic build up to an absolute bare minimum.

Q - Are all of your Round Ball loads high velocity?

A - No, they are not. Other Round Ball loads are used for regulating double barrel shotguns, whether they be an O/U or SxS. Other loads are for personal defense. Depending on their particular use, Round Ball velocity can vary from 1,200 fps. to 1,800 fps..

Q - What is the energy level of your hunting loads?

A - Hunting loads carry well over a ton of energy at 100 yards.

Q - What is the as accuracy potential of your loads!

A - Since most of my customers shoot double barrel shotguns, a lot of the pictures and targets that guy's send me, show two holes in a target that are an inch or two apart at 30 yards. Some have shown 3" or less at 50 yards, and guys with a well tuned pump or semi-auto can do under 3" at 75 yards very consistently.

Q - Can I buy directly from you?

A - Yes. I do not source my loads out to anyone! I load and sell 10,000 rounds a year, and very seldom will I exceed that limit. I load one month a year, and if a customer drops from my order list, then I will pick up a new customer from my waiting list and start loading for them.

Any other questions, please feel free to just ask!

Round Ball
B.C. of 486gr .690 balls is roughly .095, even if you do get them up to 1800fps (you definitely can, even with BP- in a ML, French and Austrian musket loads only ran around 170gr of 2-1F and were intended to yield 1600fps), they only maintain 1526ft/lb at 100 yards. Sight height is .75" (1st trajectory is for ML irons, 125yd zero), second is for 1.5" scope height (130yd zero).
0- 1800fps, 3496 ft/lb, -.75", -1.5
25- 1619fps, 2827ft/lb, +1.5" , +1"
50- 1455fps, 2283 ft/lbs, +2.9", +2.7"
75- 1310fps, 1851 ft/lb, +3.3", +3.4"
100- 1189fps, 1526 ft/lb, +2.4", +2.8
125- 1096fps, 1296 ft/lb, 0", +0.7"
150- 1026fps, 1136 ft/lb,-4.4", -3.3"
175- 972fps, 1019 ft/lb, -10.5", -9.3"
200- 927fps, 928 ft/lb, -19.1", -17.6

Large bore round balls work well within 2-300 yards, just don't expect the numbers to give an indication of what kind of damage they can inflict; as heavy ball like these have quite a bit of momentum, and despite the low SD (.146) and velocities at range, they penetrate reasonably well, due to moving so slow that they don't excessively deform (although at that point, you are relying on crush damage to kill, with a .690" hole does well to bring down even larger animals like buffalo). Even in a Smoothbore, they can be usefully accurate, and if you use a rifled barrel or choke, especially so. The trajectory is poor, so you need to have sights that can accommodate that, or keep your shots to point blank range (the example was for a roughly 6" circle, commonly held as the ideal target area for common deer species, if your animal is larger, your target area gets bigger, and your PBR increases)
 

5shot

AH veteran
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
145
Reaction score
123
Media
5
Is there somewhere to get loading info for these? I have everything to cast and load them, but no data. I am currently playing with tri ball loads using heat treated .600 balls.

Thanks
 

Round Ball

AH senior member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
82
Reaction score
111
Location
Oklahoma
For the single Round Ball loads, you can use most any load data for 1 1/8 oz. Target and Field loads, as pressures for the Round Ball loads run considerably less than what bird shot loads do.

You can load 2 3/4" shells "safely" in excess of 1,700 fps..

I have loaded a lot of the double .690 Round Ball loads in 3" hull's, but I know absolutely nothing about tri-ball loads.

Round Ball
 

Forum statistics

Threads
39,865
Messages
776,684
Members
72,711
Latest member
neyes15550
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

NTH wrote on JimT's profile.
Hey Jim, I read that you’re from Dequincey and just returned from Africa. I’m from Lake Charles and went there in April. What outfitter did you use and would you share your experience and pics? I won our trip to Kuche through DU.
gprippers wrote on SAFARIKIDD's profile.
Hello! Nice rifle! I have IDENTICAL rifle in 375 H&H so i was wondering what gunsmith did the work on it? Appreciate it and if you decide there is anything you are willing to take in partial trade, let me know. I have quite a few pistols, long guns and sxs & o/u shotguns as well.

Let me know if you are looking for anything in particular.

Thanks,
Rob
Bearhunter46 wrote on Philip Glass's profile.
Philip, do you still have the 416 for sale?
NTH wrote on Rick HOlbert's profile.
Nice “meeting” you Rick. I made my first trip to S. Africa this year through Kuche Safaris. We had an incredible time. What outfitter do you use? Neal
LIFE-FORM TAXIDERMY World Leader In Superior Taxidermy Since 1981

taxidermy-south-africa.jpg
 
Top