What is a proper "stopping rifle" and load for dangerous game?

As a theoretical question, you will get many answers, but as a practical question, I just have to agree with @rookhawk , just use the largest caliber you can handle accurately.

From what I have seen, and heard from PH´s, most "african hunters", cannot shoot properly a big bore rifle, and much less a double.
Not necessarily. ;) I shoot all my forties extremely well - every bit as accurately as one of my .375's. If I were going on a pure buffalo hunt, I probably would take one of them. However, I haven't done that hunt yet, and am unlikely to do so. All of my buffalo have been taken while also hunting other game on the same safari. Nothing offers a more practical solution for such a mixed bag hunt than a .375. These days, it will be loaded with A-Frames, and I would be just as confident trying to stop a buffalo with it as I would my .404 or 500/416. My .470 would likely do a better job turning an animal, but it is of limited utility for many other scenarios. So, I consciously do not use the largest caliber that I can handle accurately because it is not necessarily the most practical.
 
To reliably stop a charge or kill a cape buffalo "dead right there" I think the threshold calibre is .500.
Best bullet is a good solid with a wide flat nose like a CEB Solid, not a round nose.
The .375 is a nice buffalo hunting calibre, with good a bullet, but remember that a cape buffalo will often go at least 30 yds after a good hit from a 375. I think that the diameter of the bullet and the construction/design of the bullet are the most important factors, not velocity. JMO
 
To reliably stop a charge or kill a cape buffalo "dead right there" I think the threshold calibre is .500.
Best bullet is a good solid with a wide flat nose like a CEB Solid, not a round nose.
The .375 is a nice buffalo hunting calibre, with good a bullet, but remember that a cape buffalo will often go at least 30 yds after a good hit from a 375. I think that the diameter of the bullet and the construction/design of the bullet are the most important factors, not velocity. JMO
With a 500 Jeff only premium grade expanding bullets are needed for buffalo, comng or going, not solids....solids are for elephant amd rhino...
 
To reliably stop a charge or kill a cape buffalo "dead right there" I think the threshold calibre is .500.
Best bullet is a good solid with a wide flat nose like a CEB Solid, not a round nose.
The .375 is a nice buffalo hunting calibre, with good a bullet, but remember that a cape buffalo will often go at least 30 yds after a good hit from a 375. I think that the diameter of the bullet and the construction/design of the bullet are the most important factors, not velocity. JMO
Can't argue with a .500 - but mine would be loaded with a pair of A Frames for a buffalo.
 
I would probably stick with my Lott. It seems to serve many PH’s quite well. Mine is very accurate and does quite nicely on plains game.
 
I didnt read the whole thread but had a moments reflection on the old boys with their BP in the glory days that stood up to every animal.
 
I agree with all said here but if your in Elephant country I want a 470 or better.Nothing turns your sporting blood to horse piss faster than a bull or cow elephant coming in complete silence!
 
a bullet of any size that passes through the brain of an animal will stop it no matter the size of the animal. but in a real life scenario, what happens when one doesnt make the perfect brain shot on a charging animal with ill intentions? in my humble opinion gentlemen, it is this scenario that defines “stopping” rifles. is the rifle you are using going to deliver enough kinetic energy to disrupt the charge, temporarily “knocking out” (akin to prize fighting) or stunning the charging beast to stop the charge and allow time for more follow up shots. will a shot from a 30-06 that reaches the brain on a charging buff/griz/(insert your favorite quarry) drop it like a stone? yes. will it disrupt the charge in the event of a near miss? in all liklihood, no. but take the same scenario with a .40 or bigger caliber. the kinetic energy will in all liklihood disrupt the charge (think prize fighting again). when it comes to potentially being in that scenario, the bigger the better. the kinetic shock that disrupts a charging animal from the bigger calibers is a benefit that cannot be overstated. just my humble opinion, gents. i carry my 416 RM in alaska for griz, and recently picked up a 450 NE for my yet-to-be scheduled buff hunt. happy hunting!

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When I developed my wildcat .505 in the early 1970's, my purpose was to duplicate the ballistics of the .505 Gibbs in a smaller package. What I ended up duplicating was a .500 NE, with a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps. fired from a magazine rifle with four round capacity.

Both of my first two shots at elephant were brain shots of necessity. The first one was with my .505 and the second with my Krieghoff .458 WM double rifle. Neither shot hit the brain, but both put the elephant down and he never got up again. My last two shots on elephant were successful and did not require follow ups. I put one through the heart, just to be sure.

This is my .505, built on a P-14 Enfield action converted to cock on opening. Weight: 8 3/4 pounds. I never notice the recoil shooting at game.

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My submission was rejected...i cannot see how it is 'wrong'. Maybe I don't suit this forum. I'll try a monitor if I can find how. Cheers all
 
Should the caliber start with a "4" or is a 375 enough gun? What about a 375 with solids? Or a 338 magnum with 250 grain solids or monolithic bullets for that matter? Double rifle or magazine fed? Will a shot that doesn't penetrate into the brain or spine still "turn" a charging animal? Will a shot with a 30 caliber that does penetrate the brain or spine still "stop" the charge? Open question, but particularly interested in buffalo.
460 WBY, y’all can debate what bullet and weight of bullet.
 
OP question:

What is a proper "stopping rifle" and load for dangerous game?​

Start at 500 gr, .458” caliber @ 2150 fps and go up from there.
 
Should the caliber start with a "4" or is a 375 enough gun? What about a 375 with solids? Or a 338 magnum with 250 grain solids or monolithic bullets for that matter? Double rifle or magazine fed? Will a shot that doesn't penetrate into the brain or spine still "turn" a charging animal? Will a shot with a 30 caliber that does penetrate the brain or spine still "stop" the charge? Open question, but particularly interested in buffalo.
I am hardly an expert. My experience is 375 HH buffalo brained, down, on spot. 416 ele, brained. Down on spot. By me. But also in both occasions it was not a charge

In both occasions, it was bolt action rifle for me.

I think that overall consensus on the forum about the definition for "stopping rifle", that it is caliber over .45, in a double rifle platform, that can be considered as "stopping rifle".
I am under impression that 458 win mag is marginal in this role by overall opinion as stopping cartridge, but I can be wrong on that

While many times discussed, I have never noticed a true definition of what actually is a stopping rifle.
What I think is the closest thing to definition of stopping rifle (or caliber) is Taylor knock down value.
It is based on shocking effect on head shot on elephant (not brain shot).

So, when the caliber becomes stopping, it is yet to be determined, but Taylor gives some indications, Where we will draw the line, your estimate is as good as mine.

The Taylor Knock-Out Factor (TKOF) is an empirical formula developed by John Taylor to evaluate the stopping power of big-game rifles, particularly for dangerous game. It is calculated as:
(Bullet Weight (grains) x Velocity (fps) x Diameter (inches)) / 7000 = TKO Factor.

Starting from the .375 H&H Magnum, here are typical TKO values for popular large-caliber cartridges based on common loads:
Taylor Knock Down Values (375 H&H and Up)
.375 H&H Magnum (300gr @ 2400-2500 fps): 38.8 - 41.0
.378 Weatherby Magnum (300gr @ 2925 fps): ~47.0
.400 Jeffery Nitro Express (400gr @ 2100 fps): ~49.2
.450/400 Nitro Express (400gr @ 2150 fps): ~49.8
.404 Jeffery (400gr @ 2300 fps): ~55.0
.416 Rigby (400gr @ 2400 fps): ~57.0
.416 Remington Magnum (400gr @ 2400 fps): ~57.0
.425 Westley Richards (410gr @ 2350 fps): ~57.0
.450 Nitro Express (480gr @ 2150 fps): ~66.0
.458 Winchester Magnum (500gr @ 2140 fps): ~70.0
.470 Nitro Express (500gr @ 2150 fps): ~72.0
.458 Lott (500gr @ 2300 fps): ~75.0
.500 Nitro Express (570gr @ 2150 fps): ~86.0
.505 Gibbs (525gr @ 2250 fps): ~88.0
.577 Nitro Express (720gr @ 2050 fps): ~120.0
.600 Nitro Express (900gr @ 2000 fps): ~159.0
.700 Nitro Express (1000gr @ 2000 fps): ~180.0+

TKO is constantly disputed, never proven, always discussed, but at least it gives some indication.
I couldnt find any better measuring stick.

If you aim true, even 375 H&H will be proven as stopping caliber. If you dont, than any caliber is useless.

If you consider the dynamics of possible DG charge, imperfect shots, close range, the nature of two quick shots of double rifle, it is up to you where you will draw the line on stopping caliber, and rifle platform (double or bolt).

I do not break my head about all this.
For me: my job is to place the first bullet in proper place with adequate and legal DG caliber.
If the situation happens, PH will have his stopping rifle to stop the charge.

For me, DG hunt is team work: PH, trackers, game ranger, and me. Each has duty, and tool to work with. If the thing happens, and if I failed to make good shot, PH duty is to manage the situation, It does not mean I will not shoot in case of charge, but it means it is the moment when PH will use his stopping rifle in the right moment. In this respect "stopping rifle" means whatever the PH chooses to have.

Two of my PH on our two DG hunts had their stopping rifles: double rifle in 416 rigby, and 500 Jeffery bolt action. They did not need to use them during our hunt.
 
This discussion seems to have taken place on the Forum a few times not too long ago. Unfortunately, we did not reach a consensus because opinions varied greatly and ranged from 22LR to 600 Nitro Express.
 
I am hardly an expert. My experience is 375 HH buffalo brained, down, on spot. 416 ele, brained. Down on spot. By me. But also in both occasions it was not a charge

In both occasions, it was bolt action rifle for me.

I think that overall consensus on the forum about the definition for "stopping rifle", that it is caliber over .45, in a double rifle platform, that can be considered as "stopping rifle".
I am under impression that 458 win mag is marginal in this role by overall opinion as stopping cartridge, but I can be wrong on that

While many times discussed, I have never noticed a true definition of what actually is a stopping rifle.
What I think is the closest thing to definition of stopping rifle (or caliber) is Taylor knock down value.
It is based on shocking effect on head shot on elephant (not brain shot).

So, when the caliber becomes stopping, it is yet to be determined, but Taylor gives some indications, Where we will draw the line, your estimate is as good as mine.

The Taylor Knock-Out Factor (TKOF) is an empirical formula developed by John Taylor to evaluate the stopping power of big-game rifles, particularly for dangerous game. It is calculated as:
(Bullet Weight (grains) x Velocity (fps) x Diameter (inches)) / 7000 = TKO Factor.

Starting from the .375 H&H Magnum, here are typical TKO values for popular large-caliber cartridges based on common loads:
Taylor Knock Down Values (375 H&H and Up)
.375 H&H Magnum (300gr @ 2400-2500 fps): 38.8 - 41.0
.378 Weatherby Magnum (300gr @ 2925 fps): ~47.0
.400 Jeffery Nitro Express (400gr @ 2100 fps): ~49.2
.450/400 Nitro Express (400gr @ 2150 fps): ~49.8
.404 Jeffery (400gr @ 2300 fps): ~55.0
.416 Rigby (400gr @ 2400 fps): ~57.0
.416 Remington Magnum (400gr @ 2400 fps): ~57.0
.425 Westley Richards (410gr @ 2350 fps): ~57.0
.450 Nitro Express (480gr @ 2150 fps): ~66.0
.458 Winchester Magnum (500gr @ 2140 fps): ~70.0
.470 Nitro Express (500gr @ 2150 fps): ~72.0
.458 Lott (500gr @ 2300 fps): ~75.0
.500 Nitro Express (570gr @ 2150 fps): ~86.0
.505 Gibbs (525gr @ 2250 fps): ~88.0
.577 Nitro Express (720gr @ 2050 fps): ~120.0
.600 Nitro Express (900gr @ 2000 fps): ~159.0
.700 Nitro Express (1000gr @ 2000 fps): ~180.0+

TKO is constantly disputed, never proven, always discussed, but at least it gives some indication.
I couldnt find any better measuring stick.

If you aim true, even 375 H&H will be proven as stopping caliber. If you dont, than any caliber is useless.

If you consider the dynamics of possible DG charge, imperfect shots, close range, the nature of two quick shots of double rifle, it is up to you where you will draw the line on stopping caliber, and rifle platform (double or bolt).

I do not break my head about all this.
For me: my job is to place the first bullet in proper place with adequate and legal DG caliber.
If the situation happens, PH will have his stopping rifle to stop the charge.

For me, DG hunt is team work: PH, trackers, game ranger, and me. Each has duty, and tool to work with. If the thing happens, and if I failed to make good shot, PH duty is to manage the situation, It does not mean I will not shoot in case of charge, but it means it is the moment when PH will use his stopping rifle in the right moment. In this respect "stopping rifle" means whatever the PH chooses to have.

Two of my PH on our two DG hunts had their stopping rifles: double rifle in 416 rigby, and 500 Jeffery bolt action. They did not need to use them during our hunt.
im a huge fan of 375s. i have three in fact. for a “one gun” mixed bag safari that might include buff or one of the cats along with plains game, its tough to beat. theyve killed everything on this planet and will continue to do so. that being said, given a choice, id personally rather have .40 cal/400gr and bigger if i had to go into the thick stuff to sort out any wounded DG.

just my personal opinion and humble 2 cents gents
 
A number of years ago I backed a buddy up on his elephant. He made a frontal brain shot with a 416 rem. His shot was above the brain, the elephant was turning and heading out quickly I put a shot in and went just below the Brain however the 570gr 500Jeff caused it to just stop and fall to its side. as it tried to get up my buddy and the PH put 2 in the brain and he had his elephant. In the video you can see the marked difference is impacts and reaction of the animal.

my .02 is stopping rifles begin at .458 and go up from there.
 
Barring rhinoceros (at this time of writing), I’ve successfully hunted all other members of the African Big Five (often multiple times including stopping charging animals) with .375 Holland & Holland Magnum rifles over the years. I consider it to be perfectly adequate for everything except body shots on big African bull elephants. That said; I would feel much more comfortable hunting hippopotamus bulls in the sugarcane fields at night with a caliber of at least .500 bore.

If I was a white hunter rather than a client, then I would obviously invest in a couple of heavier rifles for spooring wounded dangerous game into areas with dense thicket & low visibility (where shot placement becomes extremely critical for bores under .450 caliber):
I) A .505 Gibbs built by Ryan Breeding on a 5 shot Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action with a 24”Douglas Premium barrel and a Grade Five Turkish walnut stock with wide V backsights & an uncovered ivory bead foresight, fitted with an India rubber recoil pad.
II) A .600 Nitro Express Heym Model 89B boxlock ejector double rifle with 23” barrels, a manual safety, wide V backsights & uncovered ivory bead foresight.

The .505 Gibbs would be using two loads:
I) Rhino 600Gr flat nosed brass monolithic solids, hand loaded to 2150 FPS (for elephant & the last shot on hippopotamus on land)
II) Rhino 600Gr Solid Shank expanders, hand loaded to 2150 FPS (for all other game)

The .600 Nitro Express would be using two loads:
I) Labor Fur Ballistik 900Gr tombac jacketed round nosed FMJ factory loads (for elephant & the second shot on hippopotamus on land)
II) Labor Fur Ballistik 900Gr soft nosed factory loads (for everything else).

Otherwise, I would just “Rough things out” with my .375 Holland & Holland Magnum like I’ve been doing ever since 1974.

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'Stopping gun is generally for PH use. Something that generates a lot of E (7,000 J+) and has a large, long wound-channel causing bullet. 'Seen a lot of .500s carried (NE in doubles, A-Sq being the old favorite in bolt) by 'em for elephant and hippo, a couple .577 doubles, but .416 is the norm for most other hunts (and every other NE between when they favor doubles.) PH let my son take zebra for villager camp meat using his .500 NE (the trick wasn't dropping 'em, it was sneaking up close enough in the wide open for a decent shot!) What You and the PH can shoot accurately and quickly is key.
 
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If I was a white hunter rather than a client, then I would obviously invest in a couple of heavier rifles for spooring wounded dangerous game into areas with dense thicket & low visibility (where shot placement becomes extremely critical for bores under .450 caliber):
I) A .505 Gibbs built by Ryan Breeding on a 5 shot Granite Mountain Arms African Magnum Mauser action with a 24”Douglas Premium barrel and a Grade Five Turkish walnut stock with wide V backsights & an uncovered ivory bead foresight, fitted with an India rubber recoil pad.
II) A .600 Nitro Express Heym Model 89B boxlock ejector double rifle with 23” barrels, a manual safety, wide V backsights & uncovered ivory bead foresight.
Excellent advice. I’m close to these recommendations with a .500 Jeffery built by the great Sterling Davenport on a M70 Classic action with Krieger 24” barrel loaded with Woodleigh 600 grain rolling along at 2200 fps and a Merkel 140AE .470 NE with 23.6” barrels loaded with 500 grain Woodleigh at 2150 fps.
 
I was curious as to where this thread would ultimately land. As usual, it winds down somewhat inconclusively, which is about what I expected. My only observation is that, after watching YouTube buffalo run off after taking two .600 Nitro slugs in the vitals is that the one success constant is good shooting with appropriate bullets remains king. I've no doubt that buffalo died within 60 or 80 yards, but it was sure moving pretty quickly for those 60 or 80 yards.

The fuzzy question is and always has been how much "stopping" the additional bore diameter/energy buys you. I would argue the answer "depends", and that the only near certainty is that solid CNS hits, and hits that break structural mobility are most predictable. With other types of hits, you get whatever you get, depending on the roll of the dice. Yes, I agree that "more" is "better", but the key is, and will always be accurate shooting with quality bullets, and that points directly to experience, comfort, and confidence in one's chosen firearm whether that be a 9.3x62 or a .700 Nitro Express. More is better right up until it becomes worse.
;)
 

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