Experiences With Shot Placement

Mike Van Horn said:

Most of the double lung hits l have had were with a bow.
Hit high a longer track job over 200 yards with very little blood, most is inside the animal
Hit low, short tracking job less than 100 yards with a good trail.
Favorite shot, hit behind the shoulder exit in front of off side shoulder and watch it fall in site of your bow stand

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This is the key point to take away in my opinion. Any through and through hit to the chest cavity will almost certainly cause the lungs to collapse and death occurs quickly due to asphyxiation from that collapse not due to the lungs filling with blood or from blood loss (exsanguination). The only difference from a high lung hit and and low lung hit is the ease of the tracking job. This mostly applies to archery gear as rifles tend to make it even more of a moot point.

Last year hunted a mountain sebra, double lung pass through with a 375hh and 300gr swift aframe. Went down in less than a minute and the place where he was stumbling around was sprayed with blood everywhere, didn't go 10m. Same load same trip, single lung shot on Gemsbok, had to give him another "pill"..., two notoriously tough animals, two different shots and two different results...

I have shot some buffalos with double-lung shot , especially if they are standing in tall grass and a heart shot was not so safe.

They stayed on the place or walked just a few steps so that i could follow up and do the final shot.

That's one of the reasons why i prefer a big caliber , like my 460WM , for such action. A big caliber makes big holes , which is very important in a double-lung shot. But that also applies to other wild species. A big caliber with the right bullet is always better for hunting.

Here is a pic of my first buffalo. Shot through the top of heart and right lung. One shot and he only ran 10 yards and collapsed. This was a .416 Rigby with 400 gr. Swift A-Frames. Tough animal, but I doubt a two lung shot would have dispatched him any quicker...

Rum Runner said:

...Tough animal, but I doubt a two lung shot would have dispatched him any quicker...

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Certainly not , the double-lung shot is only a replacement solution. The best shot is the heart shot , for the buffalo and also the elephant.

I had a weird one last week. Using a 7-08 and Swift 150gr Scirocco ll bullets, I shot a deer at about 70 yards. It was standing at the top of a small ridge, facing me, just at dusk. I aimed dead centre and low on the chest. Obviously hit hard, the deer ran over a small ridge out of sight. Expecting to crest the ridge and see the deer all I found was an initial splatter of dark blood, which stopped immediately. No lung blood. I found subsequent tiny drops spaced about 10' or so apart, perhaps shakened off as the deer bounded away. I figured terrain had guided the deer into a swamp. I got my head lamp and kept looking, but could find no more blood. I kept looping back and forth and finally found good blood then a spot were it had fallen, then again, and suddenly there was the deer, lying in the tall dry grass in about 6" of water, which was covered by a thin veneer of ice.
I managed to drag it out of the swamp, and then get my truck in close and loaded it (using my Z pulley system) into the back, to take home to deal with, as it was now pitch black, cold and my feet were wet.
Once I hung the deer, and opened up the diaphragm, the first thing that happened was the heart fell out followed by most of the lungs. The deer had run about 50 yards or so, with no heart and really no lungs. The bullet had hit exactly where I aimed, dead centre on the lower brisket, and exited at the second to last rib on the left side above centre line.
I guess there was no blood because the deer had no beating heart or working lungs. The boney brisket had closed off blood escaping, and the exit wound was only about the size of a quarter, and as I said, above mid line. Weird. But I do like those Scirocco ll bullets! It pays to keep looking...

Rick Cox said:

I had a weird one last week. Using a 7-08 and Swift 150gr Scirocco ll bullets, I shot a deer at about 70 yards. It was standing at the top of a small ridge, facing me, just at dusk. I aimed dead centre and low on the chest. Obviously hit hard, the deer ran over a small ridge out of sight. Expecting to crest the ridge and see the deer all I found was an initial splatter of dark blood, which stopped immediately. No lung blood. I found subsequent tiny drops spaced about 10' or so apart, perhaps shakened off as the deer bounded away. I figured terrain had guided the deer into a swamp. I got my head lamp and kept looking, but could find no more blood. I kept looping back and forth and finally found good blood then a spot were it had fallen, then again, and suddenly there was the deer, lying in the tall dry grass in about 6" of water, which was covered by a thin veneer of ice.
I managed to drag it out of the swamp, and then get my truck in close and loaded it (using my Z pulley system) into the back, to take home to deal with, as it was now pitch black, cold and my feet were wet.
Once I hung the deer, and opened up the diaphragm, the first thing that happened was the heart fell out followed by most of the lungs. The deer had run about 50 yards or so, with no heart and really no lungs. The bullet had hit exactly where I aimed, dead centre on the lower brisket, and exited at the second to last rib on the left side above centre line.
I guess there was no blood because the deer had no beating heart or working lungs. The boney brisket had closed off blood escaping, and the exit wound was only about the size of a quarter, and as I said, above mid line. Weird. But I do like those Scirocco ll bullets! It pays to keep looking...

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I'm with you there. I love Scirocco II bullets! I've taken several bucks and one Desert Bighorn with that bullet.

Rick Cox said:

Once I hung the deer, and opened up the diaphragm, the first thing that happened was the heart fell out followed by most of the lungs. The deer had run about 50 yards or so, with no heart and really no lungs. .

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Sometimes I don't think deer get the credit they deserve for being tough. I've seen one with it's heart sliced in half, and lungs hit run 150 yds (bow kill). They can definitely surprise you with how far they can run.
I do agree with the sentiment of this thread though. I hunt whitetail with a .243, and if you collapse their lungs they don't go far. Even with a bow, if you get both lungs they *generally* won't make it far.

Personally speaking , l am a very big fan of the double lung shot . Just last year , l took this beautiful and delicious cheetal deer with a double lung shot . I used my old Belgian shot gun , loaded with spherical ball cartridges , which l hand loaded myself . The cartridge was an Eley 3 inch Alphamax magnum High Brass cartridge . The ball was of 16 Bore , so that it could go through the fully choked left barrel of my 12 Bore shot gun without damaging the chokes . The deer went 60 to 70 yards , blowing blood from it's nose and mouth before dropping dead. This year , l hope to shoot a bigger 1 .


During my career , as a professional shikaree in Nagpur India from 1961 to 1970 , l also used the same weapon and double lung shots to dispatch more than a few gaurs weighing above 2000 pounds . Here are a couple of them .


For all of my novice clients , l would always advise them to go for the double lung shot , as it presented a very large target on the animal . While it will not bring death as fast as a heart shot , a shot which manages to take out both lungs guarantees you a dead animal soon enough.

For broad side lung shots , a quality expanding bullet such as a .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre Winchester Silvertip was very effective. It would open up inside the lungs of even the largest 2000 pound gaur and make short work of it. I am confident that a modern Trophy Bonded Bear Claw soft point bullet would do just as well , if not better.

When using solid bullets for lung shots on big game , like gaur ( the Indian equivalent of the African cape buffalo ) , a much larger calibre than .375 Holland & Holland magnum is desired. I personally had to once follow up a gaur for 12 hours , which was wounded by a 300 grain .375 Holland & Holland magnum calibre German RWS solid metal covered bullet . When l found it , it was still very much a threat . If using non expanding bullets , you need larger calibres to punch larger holes into the lungs of big game ( like gaur ) . A 400 grain bullet from a .450/400 Nitro Express calibre rifle ( or a
404 Jeffery calibre rifle . ) would do nicely . of course , few people use solid bullets for cape buffaloes in the 21st century.

I shot 3" behind the "triangle" on the right side of my Zebra and only got the right lung at 150 yards.
Bullet exited about foot behind the triangle on the left side and can be seen in the picture.
He sprayed so much blood Ray Charles could have tracked this spoor.
He ran 100 yards and then flattened out about a 15 yard circle on the ground.
I was using 375H&H 300 grain Swift A-Frames, loaded by Swift.
Not sure if you would call that high or low, but it was only one lung.

BRICKBURN said:

I think the animals level of awareness of a threat made a huge difference in the distance covered after the shot.

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I agree absolutely with that.

High low or smack in the middle I don't think it makes much difference. They all die just some quicker than the other.if the heart is involved as well death appears to be quicker. Everything I have shot with a heart and double lung shot has run varying distances from a few yards to 80 yards.
Personally I can't tell the difference but each animal is a law unto itself. No 2 animals react the same.
My zebra was shot just above the last chevron on the foreleg. He made it about 10 yards.on skinning it had smashed one leg, took out both lungs and the major blood vessels above the heart, also smashed the offside shoulder.
He was still leaking bloody for a while after he was shot.
I think you need to use enough gun to do maximum damage.

Bullet hole is visible just above the last chevron on the foreleg
Bob

In medical school, one of the pulmonologists was giving a lecture in which he stated that one of the reasons American bison were so easily wiped out is a fluke of anatomy in which the pleural cavities (that surround the lung) in bison are connected unlike essentially every other animal. Thus, in a bison every lung shot drops both lungs. Even a small peripheral hit will leak air into the chest cavity and negative pressure is unable to open up the lungs to allow for gas exchange. The bison suffocates in a few minutes, allowing long distance buffalo hunters to hit them and wait until they collapse. This combined with their particular herd behavior made it easy to kill dozens in one setting.

I cannot verify this as my first bison hunt is still a month away but I can very much verify that dropping a single lung is rarely fatal in humans or most animals as long positive posture does not build up in the chest crowding the heart.

Dukeisok said:

In medical school, one of the pulmonologists was giving a lecture in which he stated that one of the reasons American bison were so easily wiped out is a fluke of anatomy in which the pleural cavities (that surround the lung) in bison are connected unlike essentially every other animal. Thus, in a bison every lung shot drops both lungs. Even a small peripheral hit will leak air into the chest cavity and negative pressure is unable to open up the lungs to allow for gas exchange. The bison suffocates in a few minutes, allowing long distance buffalo hunters to hit them and wait until they collapse. This combined with their particular herd behavior made it easy to kill dozens in one setting.

I cannot verify this as my first bison hunt is still a month away but I can very much verify that dropping a single lung is rarely fatal in humans or most animals as long positive posture does not build up in the chest crowding the heart.

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Very interesting nonetheless. Good luck on your bison hunt

Dukeisok said:

In medical school, one of the pulmonologists was giving a lecture in which he stated that one of the reasons American bison were so easily wiped out is a fluke of anatomy in which the pleural cavities (that surround the lung) in bison are connected unlike essentially every other animal. Thus, in a bison every lung shot drops both lungs. Even a small peripheral hit will leak air into the chest cavity and negative pressure is unable to open up the lungs to allow for gas exchange. The bison suffocates in a few minutes, allowing long distance buffalo hunters to hit them and wait until they collapse. This combined with their particular herd behavior made it easy to kill dozens in one setting.

I cannot verify this as my first bison hunt is still a month away but I can very much verify that dropping a single lung is rarely fatal in humans or most animals as long positive posture does not build up in the chest crowding the heart.

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Apparently it is well described. I would not want to be a patient who has something called "buffalo chest". Thank God for academic physicians who spend time on this stuff.

The above link is for a research paper in which they review humans reported to have buffalo lung (mostly postop from thoracic surgery) and did necropsies on bison demonstrating fenestrations between pleural cavities.