My thoughts on recoil

Tanks said:
That is derived from the Weaver stance in handgun shooting. It has evolved since then. Fighting recoil is not the right thing. Heck, I don't even hold the forward hand that tight, and let recoil happen (meaning I let the gun go up with the recoil force rather than fully into my shoulder). Obviously, you have to let some of the force go into the shoulder rather than all the way up for the second shot to be fast enough.
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Failing to hold on tight with both hands could be a disaster with some of the really large guns though. My 8-bore will kick off the British space program if you don't have a tight grip with both hands (with heavy bp loads).
 
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matt85 said:
Failing to hold on tight with both hands could be a disaster with some of the really large guns though. My 8-bore will kick off the British space program if you don't have a tight grip with both hands (with heavy bp loads).
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I shoot .500 NE my schlapping limit.
 
Recoil management is a skill that anyone can learn.
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Spot on, great post. Jeff Cooper often remarked that "recoil is 80% mental ".

A recoil threshold can be found for anybody. I politely declined shooting Unintended Consequences author John Ross's circa 1880 R.B. Rodda 4-bore of 2140gr/1520fps:
Rodda 4-bore and buffalo.png


However, I believe nearly all users of the .375 H&H could pretty easily ramp up to the .416 Rem Mag, gaining at least 10% more stopping power.
____
My Dakota 76 in .450 Dakota with iron sights and 4 rds weighs 10.8 lbs.
Its buff load is a 500gr/2350fps. Below are calcs for its Free Recoil Energy and Free Recoil Velocity.

(0.0714285714 x 2350 + 4700 x 0.0134285714)² / 64.32 x 10.8 = Free Recoil Energy
(167.85714279 + 63.11428558)² / 694.656
230.97428558² / 694.656
53,349.120599191 / 694.656 = 76.8 ft-lb Free Recoil Energy
230.97428558 / 10.8 = 21.4 fps Free Recoil Velocity

FRE is ~2.5x that of a .30-06, IIRC.

(NOTE: I was wise to decline the Rodda 4-bore, with a Free Recoil Energy of 331 ft·lb, which is 4.3x my .450 Dakota!)

I'm fit, of average height, not obese. Clothed for the field, I weigh about 210 lbs.
The below .gif shows my second shot on buff. Moderately stout but manageable, and I'm not 250+ lbs.
Stance, a solid stockweld, practice, and attitude are all key factors.

I can handle hotter loads, but see no reason to. My rifle and I like 500gr/2350fps, and it works well.
I don't even notice its recoil in the field. Hope this helps to alleviate some recoil shyness for some!

shot on my buffalo.gif
 
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Your post nails it recoil is 80% technique and the other 20% gun weight, not raw power. Light modern rifles are the silent killer of practice, and anyone with two hands and a brain can wring the life out of 8 bore or 577 NE once they treat it like a car firm grip, bone on stock, center of gravity forward, single step trigger. Medium bores are the perfect bridge because they’re forgiving enough that you can jump from 30-06 straight into 375/416 without learning a new language. Bench rest on a 458? Straight up sabotage your form stand, stick, or offhand is king for these.

Friend who just learned 8 bore on day one and beat a 10" gong? That’s not luck that’s proof the human body and brain are way more adaptable than most guys realize. Big guys aren’t magically tougher the weak link is usually poor form or weak core, not size. Short range hunting is where these beasts shine snap a running buck, not bench press a 1000 yard 5x7 steel gong.
 
HUS856 said:
Bench rest on a 458? Straight up sabotage your form stand, stick, or offhand is king for these.
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Agree. On my big bores I use sticks. I have @African Sporting Creations wood 3 piece shooting sticks and I have a suede top for it ( https://www.africansportingcreations.com/suede-leather-bridge-top.html ) that I use for final sight in. It is just as steady as bench more or less. I have sighted in my Heym .500 a while back from the bench, even with a two inch shoulder pad it was not pleasant. I switched to using the sticks exclusively from then on and bought the suede top.
 
Ontario Hunter said:
Proper length of pull (distance between trigger and butt) can be significant for recoil management. My 404 is a bit short (at least half an inch) and scope can hit me if I don't hold on tight. I'll get around to fixing it one of these days. I got a light kiss first shot in Africa this year. After that as soon as crosshairs were on the animals my mind immediately went to "hold on tight." No problem.

Proper bullet weight for caliber is also an often neglected factor. With modern bullet technology it is possible to use less weight and get the same or better results as old lead core bullets the cartridges were designed for a century ago. Less weight = less recoil (Newton's "Second Law of Motion"). I don't need to be shooting 400 gr mono bullets to kill buffalo but finding anything lighter to load is difficult. 325-350 gr should do the job. At distance they may actually work better. It would be nice if the major manufacturers would make something lighter than 400 gr.

I prefer a low QD scope with optional irons for fast acquisition ... and a stock designed for it.
View attachment 787928
Crosshairs are in full field of view or irons are aligned the instant the rifle is shouldered. Perhaps the stock design is not as efficient at reducing recoil (which I think may be debatable) but I can adjust myself to accept a bit of extra recoil off the sticks. Hunting for the crosshairs on an incoming angry animal may require less desirable adjustment.
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I think your scope might be mounted too far back. On my big bore rifles, the rear ring is almost touching the power adjustment. I place my head/cheek on the stock to where I just barely get the full circle field of view in the scope. It feels natural and reduces the chance of scope eye.
IMG_6954.jpeg
 
Scott CWO said:
I think your scope might be mounted too far back. On my big bore rifles, the rear ring is almost touching the power adjustment. I place my head/cheek on the stock to where I just barely get the full circle field of view in the scope. It feels natural and reduces the chance of scope eye.View attachment 788599
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Different scopes and different eyes. My 404 wears a 30mm tube 1-4x and I am going on 74 yrs (shortly). My Springfield with 3-9x Nikon seems to have ocular situated about same as your Leopold.
PXL_20260328_200326643.MP.jpg

Both scopes acquire instantly when the guns are mounted. Especially important with a dangerous game rifle.
 
BTP-KennethWRoyce said:
OK, whatever happened to that unicorn?
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@BTP-KennethWRoyce
If you’re referring to the girl, her name is Hannah and she graduated from Alabama a couple years ago and now works in marketing for the Dallas Cowboys.

If you’re not, then go eat a bag of dicks.
 
deewayne2003 said:
@BTP-KennethWRoyce
If you’re referring to the girl, her name is Hannah and she graduated from Alabama a couple years ago and now works in marketing for the Dallas Cowboys.

If you’re not, then go eat a bag of dicks.
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I assumed he was asking about the girl who liked shooting. But now you have me curious... what else were you assuming he might be asking about?
 
Grumpy gumpy said:
Weirdly I want to know if she still shoots. Hopefully she does
Gumpy
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We need more woman in shooting sports! Many years ago, I taught a young lady to shoot my 416. She was maybe 20 years old and all of 100lbs. She learned pretty quick and did quite well! Sadly, it turned out she just was just trying to impress the range master (young man about her age). Once she found out he was engaged she stopped coming to the range... hope she didn't give up shooting.

Woman can shoot large bore rifles just as well as men. The only problem is upper body strength for offhand shooting, but that can be worked on if the drive is there.
 
IMG_7185.jpeg


I find the 30-06 not uncomfortable to shoot even with a high comb stock. I like the high comb and it does not increase the recoil. In fact, it may reduce recoil because the gun fits me better. If the gun fits me better, I am more capable of absorbing recoil. When I ordered this Savage Lady Hunter rifle in 30-06, I requested a longer, heavier action, barrel, and stock, to add weight and to reduce the recoil. This rifle’s mild recoil is proof that weight is more important than stock design.

I’ve fired a few large bore rifles, including @skydiver386 ’s CZ 375 H&H, and his CZ 450 Rigby. The 375 weighs maybe 9 1/2 pounds, and the 450 Rigby weighs almost 13 pounds.

The first time I fired the 450 Rigby, I told Darrell the 450 was more comfortable to shoot than the 375! Both guns are CZ 550 Safari magnums and the only difference between the heavier caliber and the lighter caliber was the weight of the barrel and stock. This made the 450 Rigby more enjoyable to shoot than the 375 H&H.

We have a Safari planned next year and I hope to take a Hippo on land with the 450 Rigby and 500 grain Barnes TSX.
 
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I have a torn rotator cuff in my right shoulder .I use past pads and shoot a standing bench rest off a milk crate with a 60 pound bull bag on top .My limit on rifles is my 416 rem mags which I have shot up to 125 times in a day .I start with 22lr go up from there to 223 to 260 rem to 338 win mag then 338-378 then 416 rem mag .I do have muzzlebreaks on the 338-378 And one of my 416 rem mags .I shot a 470 capstick in a model 70 winchester twice and said screw that too much .The 416 rem mag will kill anything on this earth .I used the 416 rm 12 years in Alaska works awesome
 
dgr416 said:
I have a torn rotator cuff in my right shoulder .I use past pads and shoot a standing bench rest off a milk crate with a 60 pound bull bag on top .My limit on rifles is my 416 rem mags which I have shot up to 125 times in a day .I start with 22lr go up from there to 223 to 260 rem to 338 win mag then 338-378 then 416 rem mag .I do have muzzlebreaks on the 338-378 And one of my 416 rem mags .I shot a 470 capstick in a model 70 winchester twice and said screw that too much .The 416 rem mag will kill anything on this earth .I used the 416 rm 12 years in Alaska works awesome
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The Win M70 is not suited to large bore cartridges! In 375 H&H and 416 RM it is great... but the 458 WM just hurts.

Don't give up on bigger guns, both me and my buddy have shoulder injuries but still shoot them just fine.
 
Gomer said:
When I buy a new M70, I put the factory stock on ebay and order a McMillan.
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My Win M70 chambered in 416 RM is a fantastic gun! But one of the worst rifles I've ever shot was stock Win M70 in 458 WM. I'm not sure if it is the stock shape, balance, or weight, but that gun is no fun.
 
matt85 said:
My Win M70 chambered in 416 RM is a fantastic gun! But one of the worst rifles I've ever shot was stock Win M70 in 458 WM. I'm not sure if it is the stock shape, balance, or weight, but that gun is no fun.
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It's the weight.

I've experienced the same thing in many rifles. I'm not going to name any names, but a few months ago, a group of us were test firing a new 375 H&H rifle. The first 2 gentlemen to fire the rifle were experienced PH's, and both got scope bit.

When I picked the rifle up to load it, my initial impression was a rifle of superb quality given the asking price, but the rifle was to light for the caliber, and the stock an inch to short. I had not trouble with the rifle, but I knew what to expect.
 
Ontario Hunter said:
Different scopes and different eyes. My 404 wears a 30mm tube 1-4x and I am going on 74 yrs (shortly). My Springfield with 3-9x Nikon seems to have ocular situated about same as your Leopold.
View attachment 788616
Both scopes acquire instantly when the guns are mounted. Especially important with a dangerous game rifle.
Click to expand...
All of my scopes acquire instantly as well when mounted but I’m not getting scope eye.
 
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