Politics

Red Leg said:
"Starship Troopers" contains the universal right to serve concept to earn franchise - male or female (Heinlein would not have been much interested in the broader alphabet soup prevalent today). For instance, fleet ships were piloted almost exclusively by women. Support roles in the Federal armed forces were treated just as combat roles, male or female, with respect to earning full citizenship (the right to vote).

There was no child bearing review board in Starship Troopers. The federation envisioned in "Starship Troopers" did not regulate children - family life was entirely private.

The only work I am aware of with such review boards is perhaps Huxley's "Brave New World?"
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All children in Huxley’s work are engineered ( except the “savage culture”). And the allowance for a child by serving in starship trooper was only in the movie version.
 
Killingtime said:
All children in Huxley’s work are engineered ( except the “savage culture”). And the allowance for a child by serving in starship trooper was only in the movie version.
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As I said - the movie, compared to the novel, is pretty awful.
 
Mark A Ouellette said:
Hmmm, an example of the humorous point I made above...
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It's actually a serious point.

Traditionally, conservatives have been the well spoken, calm, dignified people and it was people on the left saying stupid shit and carrying dumb signs.

I gotta tell you man, I am not remotely leftist and if there is one thing I have learned in a lifetime of being in and around politics is that the asshole in your own party is a much bigger problem than anyone on the other side will ever be.
 
Wheels said:
There is already a Trump Lake in Ontario. It would have been too confusing. :ROFLMAO:
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Well, we do have 8 Wolf Lakes...so we are often not original on names. Like our football league used to have two teams with the same name.
 
Red Leg said:
I hate to be a downer to my more enlightened fellow travelers, but when it comes to madness and murder, I fall solidly in the Robert Heinlein school of punishment, clearly articulated by Rico following the murder of a child by a trooper.

"Well, we shoot mad dogs, don't we? Yes, but being crazy that way is a misfortune, not a fault. Can the dog help it? No, but the outcome is the same—a dead dog, or a dead child."

Heinlein further expands on the topic ........

"It didn't matter whether Dillinger was sane or insane—the result to the child was the same. A mad dog is not responsible for its actions; nevertheless, it had to be destroyed. You couldn't 'punish' a mad dog, punishment was the wrong word. But you could kill it, and you must—before it killed again."

A number of contemporary readers have been taught or have assumed "Starship Troopers" is satire - largely abetted by the clumsily satirical and generally terrible film adaptation. But Heinlein, as anyone will testify who actually has read his full body of work, used fiction to convey the strengths of his political and cultural convictions and disgust with the post-WWII direction of Western society. Sadly, he had been dead a decade before the screenplay was created.

He truly believed that political rights should be directly tied to personal sacrifice and duty. In "Starship Troopers" the vehicle is the right of franchise only being extended to veterans of voluntary Federal Service - not a bad idea from my perspective. The book does not imagine the Nazi-uniformed police state of the movie - did I mention it is awful - but rather a functional stable republic where society has an absolute obligation to protect citizens from harm = enemies domestic or alien / mad or sane. The book was created as a treatise on virtue and duty in contrast to the emerging permissive society he clearly foresaw and dreaded in 1959.
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Executing the condemned in the Inuit historical accounts I read was performed by the family of the condemned person. Now that’s accountability.
 
Pheroze said:
Executing the condemned in the Inuit historical accounts I read was performed by the family of the condemned person. Now that’s accountability.
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There is a book series a kind of space Roman republic vibe called “Red Rising” where they let the loved ones pull the feet on the condemned to break the neck because the gravity on mars is to low. The author pierce brown is a big history buff I wonder if he got it from that culture.
 
RLD said:
It's actually a serious point.

Traditionally, conservatives have been the well spoken, calm, dignified people and it was people on the left saying stupid shit and carrying dumb signs.
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Maybe this successful billionaire, TV personality, and politician is putting on an act to be more inclusive of the Democrats?
 
Mark A Ouellette said:
Maybe this successful billionaire, TV personality, and politician is putting on an act to be more inclusive of the Democrats?
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I think he's doing a lot of it just to keep the libs and leftys off balance so he can quietly run the country. What you see and what you get are two different things altogether.
 
Killingtime said:
There is a book series a kind of space Roman republic vibe called “Red Rising” where they let the loved ones pull the feet on the condemned to break the neck because the gravity on mars is to low. The author pierce brown is a big history buff I wonder if he got it from that culture.
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Really worthwhile series to read.
 
RLD said:
It's actually a serious point.

Traditionally, conservatives have been the well spoken, calm, dignified people and it was people on the left saying stupid shit and carrying dumb signs.

I gotta tell you man, I am not remotely leftist and if there is one thing I have learned in a lifetime of being in and around politics is that the asshole in your own party is a much bigger problem than anyone on the other side will ever be.
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Much like a trans you might not self identify as a liberal but the views you express mark you as such I’ll grant you that you come off more of a cretchen era liberal that a than a younger Trudeau era but a liberal is a liberal in the end.
 
Killingtime said:
There is a book series a kind of space Roman republic vibe called “Red Rising” where they let the loved ones pull the feet on the condemned to break the neck because the gravity on mars is to low. The author pierce brown is a big history buff I wonder if he got it from that culture.
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Fabulous series, IMHO. Brown is young; he needs to get off his arse and add more to the series.
 
RLD said:
I think you are right that trends in medicine and social pressure can produce terrible results particularly for vulnerable young people.

I also agree that lots of parents are too lazy/overworked to do good parenting and use drugs/screens to try and solve their children's "problems" with really shitty results.

There are the new problems we face and we need to find solutions for them.

However, just waxing nostalgic about how good things were centuries ago (when they were not good for lots of people) doesn't move us towards solutions to today's problems and just makes people who think that way that look like they are oblivious to new problems that require new solutions. It's a fast road to irrelevant dinosaur status.
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Do you think now is a good time for everyone? There is no point in history were someone wasn’t suffering. However it’s only been the last couple generations that expected anyone to care. I’m pretty sure it’s @Scott CWO quotes someone as saying “nobody cares work harder”.

The more I read you and big sleazys defending of every minority every down trodden and every drug addict and every other lost cause going the more I agree with Scott. Nobody cares work harder if you want to succeed.

As for being a dinosaur as you refer to me it’s possible although unlikely as I’m only in my 30s, that being said I do believe society was better up until a couple of generations ago. How many people know their neighbors now? How many people look after their own elderly relatives now instead of just sticking them in a home? How many people have a strong Hand in raising their own children now? How many own generational property or belong to place? How many belong to a church or join a legion branch?

Technology and debt have killed community in and out of the home and we are all worse off for it.
 
Tubby’s Canteen said:
Do you think now is a good time for everyone? There is no point in history were someone wasn’t suffering. However it’s only been the last couple generations that expected anyone to care.
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That is just dead wrong. People have always cared about people suffering, literally since the beginning of written history. I am Catholic, my church has cared about the suffering of other humans for about 2000 years now and I am proud of it. The Romans had all sorts of welfare as well.

But thinking that the solutions of 200 years ago is going to fix the problems of today is like suggesting we should use blacksmith's tools to fix a microchip. Good luck.

And suggesting that the way mentally ill people were handled a couple hundred years ago was just fine...well that is either cruel, ignorant or delusional. Or maybe all three.

Are you actually suggesting that human suffering is not an evil we should be trying to eliminate?
 
Tubby’s Canteen said:
Much like a trans you might not self identify as a liberal but the views you express mark you as such I’ll grant you that you come off more of a cretchen era liberal that a than a younger Trudeau era but a liberal is a liberal in the end.
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Since you are Canadian you will know what I mean when I say I am a Bill Davis Conservative.
 
Killingtime said:
There is a book series a kind of space Roman republic vibe called “Red Rising” where they let the loved ones pull the feet on the condemned to break the neck because the gravity on mars is to low. The author pierce brown is a big history buff I wonder if he got it from that culture.
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Reading it right now and really enjoying it. I think it just echoes of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.
 
RLD said:
That is just dead wrong. People have always cared about people suffering, literally since the beginning of written history. I am Catholic, my church has cared about the suffering of other humans for about 2000 years now and I am proud of it. The Romans had all sorts of welfare as well.

But thinking that the solutions of 200 years ago is going to fix the problems of today is like suggesting we should use blacksmith's tools to fix a microchip. Good luck.

And suggesting that the way mentally ill people were handled a couple hundred years ago was just fine...well that is either cruel, ignorant or delusional. Or maybe all three.

Are you actually suggesting that human suffering is not an evil we should be trying to eliminate?
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Your miss interpreting the quote the whole premise behind it is everyone can sing a sad story and we’re all tired of hearing em, get to work and tell us your success story.

Human suffering is an evil we should work to end when it’s at somone else’s hand. When it’s self inflicted it’s farther down on my list of priorities.

A hundred years ago anyone who wasn’t severely mentally ill would have been handled at home and in community, those who were too bad were institutionalized. Were the institutions themselves were mostly far worse conditions than today and I’m not advocating for a return to those practices. Historically we took care of our own unless it was impossible and now very few look out for their own.
 
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