Brent in Az
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Kill innocent children, go straight to the lethal injection table. Case closed.
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RLD
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I think you are right that trends in medicine and social pressure can produce terrible results particularly for vulnerable young people.
I also agree that lots of parents are too lazy/overworked to do good parenting and use drugs/screens to try and solve their children's "problems" with really shitty results.
There are the new problems we face and we need to find solutions for them.
However, just waxing nostalgic about how good things were centuries ago (when they were not good for lots of people) doesn't move us towards solutions to today's problems and just makes people who think that way that look like they are oblivious to new problems that require new solutions. It's a fast road to irrelevant dinosaur status.
deewayne2003
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Pheroze
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I think close to 100% of the people I represented who were being involuntarily committed and treated were on drugs. But, they often resorted to drugs to self medicate, not to enjoy. In a way they were trying to find a solution to their problem. Their mental health issues often resulted in a distrust of what the doctors were doing, sometimes because of the side effects, real or perceived. And their use of illicit (most often just pot) made their conditions worse. It was a vicious cycle. And then, on top of that, I don’t think it’s actually possible to treat paranoia. So, those underlying feelings persist long after discharge from the institution. Rise and repeat.
I can say with certainty it has nothing to do with a progressive or lenient society.
Interestingly, while in the Arctic I was given a book of recorded Inuit stories to read. Their society was incredibly creative when resolving disputes as the environment required people to figure things out. The stories I read where someone was condemned to death all sounded like mental illness. The stories I read highlighted how destructive the behaviours can be in such an extreme environment. By analogy, maybe it’s the luxury we have now that allows us to learn about and support these people.
I can say with certainty it has nothing to do with a progressive or lenient society.
Interestingly, while in the Arctic I was given a book of recorded Inuit stories to read. Their society was incredibly creative when resolving disputes as the environment required people to figure things out. The stories I read where someone was condemned to death all sounded like mental illness. The stories I read highlighted how destructive the behaviours can be in such an extreme environment. By analogy, maybe it’s the luxury we have now that allows us to learn about and support these people.
I hate to be a downer to my more enlightened fellow travelers, but when it comes to madness and murder, I fall solidly in the Robert Heinlein school of punishment, clearly articulated by Rico following the murder of a child by a trooper.
"Well, we shoot mad dogs, don't we? Yes, but being crazy that way is a misfortune, not a fault. Can the dog help it? No, but the outcome is the same—a dead dog, or a dead child."
Heinlein further expands on the topic ........
"It didn't matter whether Dillinger was sane or insane—the result to the child was the same. A mad dog is not responsible for its actions; nevertheless, it had to be destroyed. You couldn't 'punish' a mad dog, punishment was the wrong word. But you could kill it, and you must—before it killed again."
A number of contemporary readers have been taught or have assumed "Starship Troopers" is satire - largely abetted by the clumsily satirical and generally terrible film adaptation. But Heinlein, as anyone will testify who actually has read his full body of work, used fiction to convey the strengths of his political and cultural convictions and disgust with the post-WWII direction of Western society. Sadly, he had been dead a decade before the screenplay was created.
He truly believed that political rights should be directly tied to personal sacrifice and duty. In "Starship Troopers" the vehicle is the right of franchise only being extended to veterans of voluntary Federal Service - not a bad idea from my perspective. The book does not imagine the Nazi-uniformed police state of the movie - did I mention it is awful - but rather a functional stable republic where society has an absolute obligation to protect citizens from harm = enemies domestic or alien / mad or sane. The book was created as a treatise on virtue and duty in contrast to the emerging permissive society he clearly foresaw and dreaded in 1959.
"Well, we shoot mad dogs, don't we? Yes, but being crazy that way is a misfortune, not a fault. Can the dog help it? No, but the outcome is the same—a dead dog, or a dead child."
Heinlein further expands on the topic ........
"It didn't matter whether Dillinger was sane or insane—the result to the child was the same. A mad dog is not responsible for its actions; nevertheless, it had to be destroyed. You couldn't 'punish' a mad dog, punishment was the wrong word. But you could kill it, and you must—before it killed again."
A number of contemporary readers have been taught or have assumed "Starship Troopers" is satire - largely abetted by the clumsily satirical and generally terrible film adaptation. But Heinlein, as anyone will testify who actually has read his full body of work, used fiction to convey the strengths of his political and cultural convictions and disgust with the post-WWII direction of Western society. Sadly, he had been dead a decade before the screenplay was created.
He truly believed that political rights should be directly tied to personal sacrifice and duty. In "Starship Troopers" the vehicle is the right of franchise only being extended to veterans of voluntary Federal Service - not a bad idea from my perspective. The book does not imagine the Nazi-uniformed police state of the movie - did I mention it is awful - but rather a functional stable republic where society has an absolute obligation to protect citizens from harm = enemies domestic or alien / mad or sane. The book was created as a treatise on virtue and duty in contrast to the emerging permissive society he clearly foresaw and dreaded in 1959.
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deewayne2003
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I've heard the "self medicate" excuse from social workers in Austin ad nauseam while helping deal with homeless issues and it's just a form of enablement.
My experience in dealing with the homeless is that the vast majority of them are simply drug addicts and or of a mental mindset that they will not conform to society and actually see society as owing them the basics of life while they do as they please.
I certainly did deal with truly mentally ill people in those areas, but they were the vast minority and rarely violent; what was genuinely horrifying is how systematically the drug addicted homeless population preyed upon the mentally ill; and by preying upon, I mean every type of theft and violence you can imagine.
The enablement of the drug addicted portion of our society is appalling, because substance addiction is the slowest form of suicide and those that enable it are just as culpable in the deaths of addicts as the dealers themselves.
RLD
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Heinlein was an interesting man. He ran the gamut from far left socialism (guaranteed income and state seizures of factories) to far right individualist at various times in his life. He was very much in favour of polyamoury and group marriage as well, and very much opposed to conscription.
Great writer though.
I think there is a good argument that his most revealing political philosophical work was the Moon is a Harsh Mistress where he espoused his theory of rational anarchy. He famously argued that the state is unneccessary.
He was a great writer and a great thinker but I struggle to accept the ideas that the state is unnecessary and that only military veterans should vote.
That is a fair point. He did indeed explore more than one conceptual idea for future cultures (also exhibited in his personal life). "Stranger in a Strange Land" became something of a bible for the 60's counter culture movement. Elon Musk is doing his best to have us all "Groking" today. But, I think of Starship Troopers as his political science treatise - though "Glory Road" and the notion of parallel universes ruled in feudal benevolence by a beautiful ageless woman has its merits as well.
Betterinthebush
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IIRC his inference was that males that served could vote. Females wishing to have children were moved to the front of the line in child bearing review boards.
In both instances I’d be cool with that. I’d go even further than him where it concerns land and property ownership, but that’s a different issue altogether.
Wheels
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Like it or hate it, Trump is renegotiating tariffs with the world. As a net importer from virtually everywhere, America is negotiating from a position of strength.
There seem to be two ways the negotiations are progressing.
1. Quietly behind the scenes without much publicity. Mexico is a good example.
2. In the press with rantings by politicians to gain political strength at home and abroad. Canada is a good example.
Which means of negotiating will prove the most successful. Is an adversarial approach the best way to make a deal with Trump. Time will tell.
There seem to be two ways the negotiations are progressing.
1. Quietly behind the scenes without much publicity. Mexico is a good example.
2. In the press with rantings by politicians to gain political strength at home and abroad. Canada is a good example.
Which means of negotiating will prove the most successful. Is an adversarial approach the best way to make a deal with Trump. Time will tell.
Betterinthebush
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"Starship Troopers" contains the universal right to serve concept to earn franchise - male or female (Heinlein would not have been much interested in the broader alphabet soup prevalent today). For instance, fleet ships were piloted almost exclusively by women. Support roles in the Federal armed forces were treated just as combat roles, male or female, with respect to earning full citizenship (the right to vote).
There was no child bearing review board in Starship Troopers. The federation envisioned in "Starship Troopers" did not regulate children - family life was entirely private.
The only work I am aware of with such review boards is perhaps Huxley's "Brave New World?"
Brent in Az
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Sadly, Dolly Parton has passed.
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At least he doesn't want to rename it Lake Donald J Trump
finance.yahoo.com
Trump Eyes Renaming Lake Ontario to Lake America in Canada Spat
President Donald Trump threatened to rename Lake Ontario as “Lake America,” escalating his war of words with Canadian officials on Tuesday as an intensifying trade fight strains the close economic relationship between the countries.
finance.yahoo.com
At least he doesn't want to rename it Lake Donald J Trump
Trump Eyes Renaming Lake Ontario to Lake America in Canada Spat
President Donald Trump threatened to rename Lake Ontario as “Lake America,” escalating his war of words with Canadian officials on Tuesday as an intensifying trade fight strains the close economic relationship between the countries.
Picture Trump under that campaign cover (big hat) below admiring the havoc he causes.
Sometimes it’s amazing how many ways Trump creates to live rent free in liberal minds!
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Tundra Tiger
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At least he doesn't want to rename it Lake Donald J Trump
Trump Eyes Renaming Lake Ontario to Lake America in Canada Spat
President Donald Trump threatened to rename Lake Ontario as “Lake America,” escalating his war of words with Canadian officials on Tuesday as an intensifying trade fight strains the close economic relationship between the countries.
... yet. He doesn't want to name it that yet.
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You mean like the havoc he is inducing in his colleagues midterm chances?
He will deliver so much winning in November that you all will be tired of winning and ask him to stop!
It's funny, there was a time I remember in America not so long ago that courtesy and decorum were the watch words on the conservative movement and saying dumb provocative shit was the province of the left. Now they all are competing for who can say the stupidist thing on any given day.
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Probably wants to rename Lake Superior to Lake Donald J Trump
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I have one for sale as well. I listed it (on here ) at $3,000 as well. Is the price high, low or right where it should be?
Thanks. Alex. [redacted] in case you want to call me to discuss further. I appreciate your time help and support.
I have one for sale as well. I listed it (on here ) at $3,000 as well. Is the price high, low or right where it should be?
Thanks. Alex. [redacted] in case you want to call me to discuss further. I appreciate your time help and support.
