European Styled Sporting Rifles in the US?

JPbowhunter said:

You are speaking for yourself here my friend.

If I hunt Africa someday I would not sully the experience by scoping the hunting rifles I’d take.

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Since when does scoping a rifle “sully” the experience? I think there are many of us, who have hunted Africa extensively, that would say scoping a rifle enhanced the experience.

While your goal is a Euro rifle, one of our other members did suggest the Springfield 1903 as a possibility. I can say without reservation that they are fine rifles. I have a nice original Springfield 03/A1 that was made by Remington in early 1942. It is one of the few rifles that I can still shoot well with factory iron sights. While I would never sporterize mine, there are thousands of them on the market that have already gotten the treatment and some premium examples from houses such as Griffin & Howe.

Another fine example is the Mauser Werke modern actions. My son acquired a nice Mauser 3000 left handed action with a ER Shaw bbl and McMillan woody stock. It is chambered in 338wm and shoots lights out with only an old Burris 4x fixed power optic. He dropped a 600lb Nilgai at 237y with one shot using this fine custom rifle this past winter. Being a lefty greatly limits his choices of rifle and he was fortunate to find the Shaw custom. It is a push feed action but outside of that it fits the bill. Functions butter smooth too.

I have found that unlike target rifles which get shot a lot in some cases, hunting rifles do not get that much use over a typical lifetime. Therefore it is rare to find one that has the bbl shot out. In fct most all, used hunting rifles, I have purchased were in near new shape and even those with tons of field wear and tear on them had not been shot that much. Think about your own rifles. A few weeks before opening day we go to the range and fire 5-6 rds to check and adjust zero if needed with the chosen ammo for this year. Then we go to the hunting fields and fire what one, or two rds to harvest our deer. If fortunate to also hunt Elk or Moose, there is two more. Total of maybe ten rounds per year? It would take decades of use to come close to wearing out the bbl on most hunting rifles.

JPbowhunter said:

You are speaking for yourself here my friend.

If I hunt Africa someday I would not sully the experience by scoping the hunting rifles I’d take.

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I am a big fan of saying "The rifle does not know which equipment you are using to aim it and it will shoot exactly the same shooting with open irons, quality peeps, 1-6x optic or 5-25x optics." But, the difference is your ability to see and aim precisely that changes with a quality optic.

You need to go to Africa and see what it is like today to hunt with iron sights. With some species or some regions, you will struggle to bag you game with irons if they run away everytime you approach to within 300y of the herds. Others will stand like cattle and allow you to walk right up to them and kill them. Neither experience is very sporting or much fun. 100+ years ago in the days of Roosevelt and Hemingway or earlier still in the times of Selous there were still unspoiled, relatively wild regions where game did not fear man as much and were present in much larger numbers.

Today with some exceptions, (unless you shoot like Quigley) I think you will find that hunting exclusively with iron sights only will be a very frustrating experience possibly leading to taking longer than advisable shots on game and also possibly leading to wounded game, poorly shot in some cases lost. Nothing sucks worse on safari that to think you may have wounded and lost a poor game animal. Take a rifle with a QD mount so you at least have the option to sully your rifle and your pride so, the game is in the salt instead of dying wounded in the bush.

Don't get me wrong, I also shoot irons some and even shoot some well enough to hunt with them. But, I do not do it often and I never do it when trophy fees are on the line. You do you.

Hedge774 said:

Have you considered a Ruger African and having the stock done up like a Rigby HS? It wasn't made in Europe, I get that. But they look the part and act the part too!

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R.J. Renner to name the first to come to mind.

JPbowhunter said:
You are speaking for yourself here my friend.

If I hunt Africa someday I would not sully the experience by scoping the hunting rifles I’d take.





He only likes to shoot them at his feet.

Or miss them at 50 yards.

So he isn't interested in a scope.

Or wound them and pay the trophy fee anyway so he doesn't have to pay the taxidermist or importer.

I'm planning now for next year's safari. The rifle will be a Gew 88, with a cocking piece diopter rear sight.
In light of the antique sights, my old eyes, and 135 year old ballistics, the PH is looking for a hunt that we can stalk close.
The hunt will be structured around the limitations of the equipment, not hampered by them.
A few years ago the rifle I chose for a hunt was an 98 Mauser sporter from approximately 1925. It's a magnificent old world rifle with set triggers, claw mounts, post reticle, etc... While it was fine in SA, it really performed poorly in the mountains of Namibia.

To the OP, you can find easily, any number of used Mannlicher Schoenaur rifles, without the stutzen stock, that can be threaded for a can. These are superior quality rifles that will deliver everthing that you're looking for.

I was looking for something yesterday and wandered across a number of new German rifle options that included two that piqued my interest.

• Mauser 25 straight pull action
• JP Sauer & Sohn model S505

The Sauer is even available in such cartridges as the 9.3x62 or 375HH. The Mauser brings the speed of a straight pull action at the price of a budget rifle by giving up the pretty Walnut in favor of a laminate. Not sure if we can buy them yet in the USA as I looked for a Mauser and found none. Would love to find one in 308 or 300wm.

Euro Optics should have the Mauser 25 I am sure they have a Sauer 505. Or they can get one from Blaser USA.

Muskox said:

Euro Optics should have the Mauser 25 I am sure they have a Sauer 505. Or they can get one from Blaser USA.

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I looked on Euro-Optics for the Mauser and found the 18 but not the newer 25. Perhaps it will be available soon. I liked it.

Call Blaser USA and ask when they are getting them.

Xpraetor said:

I disagree, as I am not anywhere close to "60yrs" old, nor am I "prince", but I do appreciate and do own rifles & shotguns with woodstocks. Also, I am currently shopping to purchase certain bolt action rifles for planned projects. Despite, I will admit my primary hunting rifle(s) & shotgun(s) have synthetic/composite stocks, however that is due to my affliction of being the cause of triple digit depreciation to anything I own. And also why rifle(s) or shotgun(s) I own have field grade wood furniture, not high/ultimate grade.

I wager the preference is 50/50 - wood to synthetic/composite in regards to hunting firearms.

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Is there a Mannlicher Shoenauer in those plans?

Hard to think about European styled rifles in the US without thinking about the Winchester Grand European. Winchester made these from 1981-1987 with the "Double" rifles being made in 1983-1985. Very European looking with all the engraving.
Mine is a a 1984 Grand European XTR Double Rifle chambered in .270.

Mauser 18 or the Sauer 100….. no, no… negative.

Can’t believe they’re actually putting their brand’s names on those things. Avoid.

JG26Irish_2 said:

I am a big fan of saying "The rifle does not know which equipment you are using to aim it and it will shoot exactly the same shooting with open irons, quality peeps, 1-6x optic or 5-25x optics." But, the difference is your ability to see and aim precisely that changes with a quality optic.

You need to go to Africa and see what it is like today to hunt with iron sights. With some species or some regions, you will struggle to bag you game with irons if they run away everytime you approach to within 300y of the herds. Others will stand like cattle and allow you to walk right up to them and kill them. Neither experience is very sporting or much fun. 100+ years ago in the days of Roosevelt and Hemingway or earlier still in the times of Selous there were still unspoiled, relatively wild regions where game did not fear man as much and were present in much larger numbers.

Today with some exceptions, (unless you shoot like Quigley) I think you will find that hunting exclusively with iron sights only will be a very frustrating experience possibly leading to taking longer than advisable shots on game and also possibly leading to wounded game, poorly shot in some cases lost. Nothing sucks worse on safari that to think you may have wounded and lost a poor game animal. Take a rifle with a QD mount so you at least have the option to sully your rifle and your pride so, the game is in the salt instead of dying wounded in the bush.

Don't get me wrong, I also shoot irons some and even shoot some well enough to hunt with them. But, I do not do it often and I never do it when trophy fees are on the line. You do you.

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Solid advice

I still have eyes decent enough to play at 400yds with irons but I wouldn't hunt at 200 with irons unless I had to for survival. Maybe not even 100 yards.

migrabill said:

Hard to think about European styled rifles in the US without thinking about the Winchester Grand European. Winchester made these from 1981-1987 with the "Double" rifles being made in 1983-1985. Very European looking with all the engraving.
Mine is a a 1984 Grand European XTR Double Rifle chambered in .270.

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Very Nice!!

I have been considering the Win 101 GE in .30-06 Sprg to pair with a Win 101 in 12Ga

Brian Rothhammer said:

Is there a Mannlicher Shoenauer in those plans?

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Coincidentally I was recently looking at a Mod GK in .308Win , but it was is the shortened length stock .... less wood to damage is better in my opinion.

I am going to post this without having read the previous four pages. My vote is for the CZ 600 Lux in 30/06. I own two of that model in 223. Never intended to own the second one, but loved the first one so much I have a thermal on one and a daytime optic on the other. Best, most innovative, new bolt action design I’ve seen in a while. My next most recent manufactured rifle is probably from the late 90s or early 2000s. And those are CZ’s as well Just not much of a fan of the modern stuff, but this one grabs me.