What caliber would you bring back from the dead?

dlmac said:

Im going for Door #3, The cartridge length and the taper

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Except that neither of those things effect velocity unless you increase case volume. The .300 Weatherby does that but I don't want to go to a full length magnum action to shoot a .308 caliber bullet. There us a lot to be said for using a standard length bolt action. Some people like the idea of the long, thin taper of the H&H, believing that it will feed more smoothly into the chamber and will extract with less force if an over - pressure load causes a stuck case. That is also another reason to avoid a 240 grain bullet in a .30 caliber cartridge.

Doug Hamilton said:

Except that neither of those things effect velocity unless you increase case volume. The .300 Weatherby does that but I don't want to go to a full length magnum action to shoot a .308 caliber bullet. There us a lot to be said for using a standard length bolt action. Some people like the idea of the long, thin taper of the H&H, believing that it will feed more smoothly into the chamber and will extract with less force if an over - pressure load causes a stuck case. That is also another reason to avoid a 240 grain bullet in a .30 caliber cartridge.

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I thought most 300 H&H guns were on full length magnum actions.

Russ16 said:

I thought most 300 H&H guns were on full length magnum actions.

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They are, which was my point. The .300 Win is on a standard length action.

Doug Hamilton said:

They are, which was my point. The .300 Win is on a standard length action.

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I guess I was confused because you referenced the 300 Wby and then mentioned H&H later.

Can you elaborate on why you don't like the magnum action? I hear people say that all the time but I've never understood why. The difference is so small I've never noticed it in handling or operating a gun.

But it cannot have a belt or a straight wall case.....I may look further into the 458 Sabi.....500 Jeff case necked down to .458 it fires a 550gr bullet at 2350fps at lower pressure than any other 458......

Essentialy it is a 458 Jeffery......

Russ16 said:

I guess I was confused because you referenced the 300 Wby and then mentioned H&H later.

Can you elaborate on why you don't like the magnum action? I hear people say that all the time but I've never understood why. The difference is so small I've never noticed it in handling or operating a gun.

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I think the two arguments against long/magnum actions are (1) short-stroking and (2) action rigidity. The DG hunters (some of them) will say #1 is important; the benchrest crowd says #2 is important. A corollary to #2 is that shorter cases are or should be more efficient than longer cases, everything else equal, but that is coincidental to the action length.

DaddyFlip said:

I think the two arguments against long/magnum actions are (1) short-stroking and (2) action rigidity. The DG hunters (some of them) will say #1 is important; the benchrest crowd says #2 is important. A corollary to #2 is that shorter cases are or should be more efficient than longer cases, everything else equal, but that is coincidental to the action length.

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I've always thought the rigidity was theoretical. I've never seen a test proving it.

I've heard about a cartridge being more efficient but not why that is a benefit.

Short stroking is an argument I put very little stock in, that's an excuse for poor practice.

Tanner said:

I have a Hawkeye African in 35 Whelen currently getting a pachmayr installed. Love that round but all of the Rigby cartridges are appealing and look incredible.

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@Tanner
All you need now is an 8# jug of CFE223 and Stoke the Whelen up and go have fun
There's nothing inside of 400 yards that will be safe. Plenty of power and similar trajectory to a 308 loaded with 150s
225s for general use
250s for bigger stuff
And 310s @2,400+fps for big shit you really want to put some hurt on.
Bob

DaddyFlip said:

I think the two arguments against long/magnum actions are (1) short-stroking and (2) action rigidity. The DG hunters (some of them) will say #1 is important; the benchrest crowd says #2 is important. A corollary to #2 is that shorter cases are or should be more efficient than longer cases, everything else equal, but that is coincidental to the action length.

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@DaddyFlip
You will only short stroke if you don't know your ride and don't practice with it
If you short stroke when TSHTF you will only do it once because you may end up very hurt or dead.
Bob

Russ16 said:

I've always thought the rigidity was theoretical. I've never seen a test proving it.

I've heard about a cartridge being more efficient but not why that is a benefit.

Short stroking is an argument I put very little stock in, that's an excuse for poor practice.

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@Russ16
Rigidity only comes into it in rear locking actions.
Front locking you can sut the bolt in half and it would still lock up and remain rigid.
Bob

Russ16 said:

I guess I was confused because you referenced the 300 Wby and then mentioned H&H later.

Can you elaborate on why you don't like the magnum action? I hear people say that all the time but I've never understood why. The difference is so small I've never noticed it in handling or operating a gun.

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Mostly because a magnum length action, especially in CRF, costs quite a bit more. Some say that the standard length action is faster to cycle, but like you I never could quite see a difference in speed. My .300 Win is on an identical CRF (Mauser 98) action as my .458 Win. Same action and fire controls. I bought the .458 and liked it so well I got another action and had the .300 built. I did replace the factory triggers with Timney and replaced the safeties with Model.70 type. If I had decided that I needed full.length magnum actions I would have had to have the ports and magazine boxes lengthened at what would have been a much greater expense. With those two rifles I've taken many animals from a small impala ewe, mule deer.black bear, bull.moose and cape buffalo bulls. I can't see any reason to go to a longer action for the sake of nostalgia.

Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:

@Tanner
All you need now is an 8# jug of CFE223 and Stoke the Whelen up and go have fun
There's nothing inside of 400 yards that will be safe. Plenty of power and similar trajectory to a 308 loaded with 150s
225s for general use
250s for bigger stuff
And 310s @2,400+fps for big shit you really want to put some hurt on.
Bob

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Bout to load up some 310s as soon as I get the gun back, also trying North Fork CPS 250s. Should work slick on Eland next time I go to Africa!

Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:

@DaddyFlip
You will only short stroke if you don't know your ride and don't practice with it
If you short stroke when TSHTF you will only do it once because you may end up very hurt or dead.
Bob

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For the record, I think both arguments are hogwash.

Doug Hamilton said:

Mostly because a magnum length action, especially in CRF, costs quite a bit more. Some say that the standard length action is faster to cycle, but like you I never could quite see a difference in speed. My .300 Win is on an identical CRF (Mauser 98) action as my .458 Win. Same action and fire controls. I bought the .458 and liked it so well I got another action and had the .300 built. I did replace the factory triggers with Timney and replaced the safeties with Model.70 type. If I had decided that I needed full.length magnum actions I would have had to have the ports and magazine boxes lengthened at what would have been a much greater expense. With those two rifles I've taken many animals from a small impala ewe, mule deer.black bear, bull.moose and cape buffalo bulls. I can't see any reason to go to a longer action for the sake of nostalgia.

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Oh, and the reason I mentioned.both the Weatherby and Winchester .300's is because the Weatherby has a straighter case than the H&H and a greater volume than either the H&H or Winchester magnums, therefore it launches bullets of equal weight at higher velocity.

Doug Hamilton said:

Mostly because a magnum length action, especially in CRF, costs quite a bit more. Some say that the standard length action is faster to cycle, but like you I never could quite see a difference in speed. My .300 Win is on an identical CRF (Mauser 98) action as my .458 Win. Same action and fire controls. I bought the .458 and liked it so well I got another action and had the .300 built. I did replace the factory triggers with Timney and replaced the safeties with Model.70 type. If I had decided that I needed full.length magnum actions I would have had to have the ports and magazine boxes lengthened at what would have been a much greater expense. With those two rifles I've taken many animals from a small impala ewe, mule deer.black bear, bull.moose and cape buffalo bulls. I can't see any reason to go to a longer action for the sake of nostalgia.

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For me it isn’t nostalgia. My first rifle I bought was a 300 WBY. I’ve never noticed a difference when shooting shorter actions. So the whole shorter action thing has always been confusing to me.

Tanner said:

Bout to load up some 310s as soon as I get the gun back, also trying North Fork CPS 250s. Should work slick on Eland next time I go to Africa!

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@Tanner
With the big 319s there's a knack to getting the best out of it.
The best powder is 2208/H4359
You will need a 2 foot piece of aluminium tubing half inch in diameter. Tape a powder funnel to the top and a caulking gun nozzle to the bottom. Cut the nozzle to have a 39 cal hole in it and it will still fit the neck of the case.
The standard max load is 59gn. This will fill the case and give a compressed load and a velocity of 2,200+ fps and a pressure of 48,000 cup.
By using the drop tube the powder settles better and you will get zero compression and room for more powder.
Using the drop tube you can get 62gn of H4350 in the case ( I use Remington cases). This will allow you to seat the bullet to the canuler and a compressed load.
This load gave me 2,455fps with zero pressure signs in MY RIFLE and proved extremely accurate 0.5" groups that were in the bull with my setting. All other loads 225-275 are 3" high at 100
THIS LOAD WAS SAFE UN MY RIFLE. USE RHIS INFORMATION WITH CAUTION AND WORK UP SLOWLY LOOKING OUT FOR ANY PRESSURE SIGNS.
Bob
Target showing group with projectiles 200-275 gn in weight.
The shot in the bull is the 310 using the same hold.
As you can see anything within 150 with that 310 is going to get hurt big time

Loads tested in above target

Bob Nelson 35Whelen said:

@Tanner
With the big 319s there's a knack to getting the best out of it.
The best powder is 2208/H4359
You will need a 2 foot piece of aluminium tubing half inch in diameter. Tape a powder funnel to the top and a caulking gun nozzle to the bottom. Cut the nozzle to have a 39 cal hole in it and it will still fit the neck of the case.
The standard max load is 59gn. This will fill the case and give a compressed load and a velocity of 2,200+ fps and a pressure of 48,000 cup.
By using the drop tube the powder settles better and you will get zero compression and room for more powder.
Using the drop tube you can get 62gn of H4350 in the case ( I use Remington cases). This will allow you to seat the bullet to the canuler and a compressed load.
This load gave me 2,455fps with zero pressure signs in MY RIFLE and proved extremely accurate 0.5" groups that were in the bull with my setting. All other loads 225-275 are 3" high at 100
THIS LOAD WAS SAFE UN MY RIFLE. USE RHIS INFORMATION WITH CAUTION AND WORK UP SLOWLY LOOKING OUT FOR ANY PRESSURE SIGNS.
Bob
Target showing group with projectiles 200-275 gn in weight.
The shot in the bull is the 310 using the same hold.
As you can see anything within 150 with that 310 is going to get hurt big time
View attachment 777512
Loads tested in above target
View attachment 777513View attachment 777494

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That is absolutely cooking. Thanks for the info that helps a ton!

Tanner said:

That is absolutely cooking. Thanks for the info that helps a ton!

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@Tanner the powder for the 310s is
2209/H4350
NOT 2208
And the hole in the caulking tube is 30cal not 39
Big fingers and small screen.
If you need anymore help just call.
The 250s CFE223 and work up to a max of 65gn for 2,700fps.
These loads generate some recoil but it is very manageable. You can definitely tell the difference between them and factory loads
Bob

1) 350 Remington Magnum
2) 8mm Remington Magnum
3) 284 Winchester
4) 6.5x55 SE
5) 6.5-06 A- Square
6) 338 Federal.

Striger said:

1) 350 Remington Magnum
2) 8mm Remington Magnum
3) 284 Winchester
4) 6.5x55 SE
5) 6.5-06 A- Square
6) 338 Federal.

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I would like to see Winchester build a mod 70 featherweight w/iron sights chambered in 350 Remington mag!