Anyone know what is up w/ Winchester Ammo's discontinued offerings?

Xpraetor said:
Does anyone have insight as to why Winchester Ammo has reduced .338WM offering(s) to only 200GR , .358W offering(s) to only 200GR and .375W offering(s) to only 200GR .... in addition to other calibers that have reduced offerings, many of which bear the Winchester name. What is worse , there is zero offering for .458WM?!

However, I reload a portion of my ammo, bit that is due to the limited availability of the ammo I need.

From my perspective the current product line for Winchester Ammo is just pathetic!
Click to expand...
Without a doubt a cost cutting move. As with all manufacturing, stupid ideas produce stupid results. Just the next step down the slippery slope.
 
So what makes you claim that .338WM , .458WM are obsolete or becoming obsolete?

There may be a "new breed" , but the calibers being lauded by influencers are just "pigs in a poke" , there is a reason .358Win & .375Win have seen a resurgence , effectiveness in tough terrain with heavy vegetation. In the past 5yrs I've seen more of those travel through hunt camp than any of the other "new hotness". I mean hell, they rolled out "350 Legend" , spent untold $$$$$ on advertising & digital influence & it still can't measure up to 30-30 in terminal ballistics , on paper its close, but actual lead to meat, 30-30 still wins. Then they dreamnt up 6.8 western, which is just a shorter .270WSM , which admittedly, .270WSM is another redundancy .... but they developed 6.8 Western to reduce recoil?! What in the crap?! Bunch of dam sissys if they can't manage recoil from a .30 calber or under.
Here we are in a forum that promotes hunting quarry which requires effective BC / legit TB , but at the same time are dismissive of the blatant campaign of planned obsolescence.
I made this post hoping there would be credible insight, instead what I found was validation of what I have long feared.
 
The 338WM and 458WM are not becoming obsolete just one manufacturer thinning their choices in ammo. I never used much winchester ammo anyway. Lately I have been buying more European ammo than domestic US manufactured. I reload most of my hunting ammo myself.
 
Xpraetor said:
So what makes you claim that .338WM , .458WM are obsolete or becoming obsolete?

There may be a "new breed" , but the calibers being lauded by influencers are just "pigs in a poke" , there is a reason .358Win & .375Win have seen a resurgence , effectiveness in tough terrain with heavy vegetation. In the past 5yrs I've seen more of those travel through hunt camp than any of the other "new hotness". I mean hell, they rolled out "350 Legend" , spent untold $$$$$ on advertising & digital influence & it still can't measure up to 30-30 in terminal ballistics , on paper its close, but actual lead to meat, 30-30 still wins. Then they dreamnt up 6.8 western, which is just a shorter .270WSM , which admittedly, .270WSM is another redundancy .... but they developed 6.8 Western to reduce recoil?! What in the crap?! Bunch of dam sissys if they can't manage recoil from a .30 calber or under.
Here we are in a forum that promotes hunting quarry which requires effective BC / legit TB , but at the same time are dismissive of the blatant campaign of planned obsolescence.
I made this post hoping there would be credible insight, instead what I found was validation of what I have long feared.
Click to expand...
I really don’t know what you expected or wanted to hear? The number of 338 win and 458 win rifles made is small compared to other cartridges. Maybe a hunter will shoot 1-4 boxes a year with those cartridges. A target shooter will do that in a a day or a weekend. The market has shifted to target shooting. Winchester rifles and Winchester ammo are owned by different parent companies they are under no obligation to make ammo available because it has a Winchester name from 1950’s. The company that made those original cartridges and rifles no longer exists.

Also, the 350 legend wasn’t made to replace a 30-30. It was made to be legal in states with straight wall cartridge laws and minimum caliber requirements.
 
DaddyFlip said:
@Mtn_Infantry I wanted to scold you a bit in regards to @Rare Breed new Rigby rifle, but you make up for it here in spades. It's so simple... Olin/Winchester is a business first, a name second, a legacy third, and a product line tied for third. I wasn't aware of it until this @Xpraetor thread, but those calibers and loadings make perfect sense for Winchester. No one is shooting those carts anymore, plain and simple. The big names/businesses/holdings must look to profit to stay alive.

There's a new generation out there and they are shooting new carts. The French revolution started in much the same way; I quote Tocqueville: "The antiquity of these institutions had not made them respected. Quite the contrary, they lost any credit even as they grew old and, strange to relate, they inspired all the more hatred as they seemed less capable of causing harm through their increasing decay. ‘The present state of things,’ said a German writer, a contemporary and friend of this old regime, ‘appears to have become generally painful for everyone and occasionally contemptible. It is strange to see how people now judge unfavourably everything that is old. New impressions come to light at the heart of our families and upset their orderliness. Even our housewives no longer wish to put up with their old furniture.'"

The answer is to handload, which I enjoy an order of magnitude above shooting and another order above hunting. If you are a champion of obsolete carts or those destined to become obsolete then handload. Also, note that certain diameters were always destined for obsolescence; the OPs list easily makes the list.
Click to expand...
I fully expected some disagreement and ruffled feathers from the Rigby/Elephant post. Ironically instead I got a bunch of messages and texts from a dozen plus forum members thanking me for calling a spade a spade. Most of them have elephant hunting experience, several don’t, and more than one I’ve never interacted with. Consensus including from multiple PH’s familiar with the area and genetics in the area was the bull was a baby, around 15yo and should’ve never been shot/hunted.

Interesting quote choice. It’s been years since reading his work in a pol sci class but if I remember correctly it was framing the French Revolution not just as a political revolution but as a societal shift despite thriving.

The interesting thing to note and what’s being overlooked is the manufacturers aren’t 100% moving away from those calibers. Instead they’re trimming this assortments to optimize production (there by profitability). The offerings they’re continuing to load are using identical grain weight projectiles as what they load in other calibers using the same projectiles giving them more versatility. It might not be what’s ideal for a cartridge, animal or area of the country/world but it’s what’s ideal for them as a business.

I’d also agree marketing has a huge impact on what’s popular. The average consumer (regardless of product category) knows very little about the product their purchasing and the competitive options. Doesn’t matter if we’re talking Bullets, Guns, Cars, Clothing, Meat, Cleaning Products, Fishing Line/Lures, etc. As a whole, I’d argue many on this forum are better educated than the avg hunter regarding bullet design/construction but that’s not everyone. I’ll be the first to admit I know nothing about thread counts and linen quality and when I went into the store recently to get new sheets with the girlfriend got a look of disgust/disappointment at what I grabbed and then had to spend 20min waiting for her to decide.
 
It's a very common sense idea, if it doesn't make sense economically, don't continue to produce it at a loss.
We have been told all of the old, "outdated" cartridges should relegated to the trash heap. Even though, there really isn't any cartridges that are really new.
6.5 Creedmore is perfect example of it, among many others.
 
375Fox said:
I really don’t know what you expected or wanted to hear? The number of 338 win and 458 win rifles made is small compared to other cartridges. Maybe a hunter will shoot 1-4 boxes a year with those cartridges. A target shooter will do that in a a day or a weekend. The market has shifted to target shooting. Winchester rifles and Winchester ammo are owned by different parent companies they are under no obligation to make ammo available because it has a Winchester name from 1950’s. The company that made those original cartridges and rifles no longer exists.

Also, the 350 legend wasn’t made to replace a 30-30. It was made to be legal in states with straight wall cartridge laws and minimum caliber requirements.
Click to expand...
I had no preconceived "want" , I hoped there would be a pulse of understanding of what is on the horizon, I hoped there would be thread of desire to stop it. Instead, what I got, was apathy....

What any company has an obligation to is the market & profit, however the issue is in the 21st cent. "companies" are no longer following a true demand / supply market. Instead they are following a manipulation market model.

As for 350 Legend , it is evidence # 1 of "market manipulation" , as it was supposedly developed to appease some ridiculous law = manipulation. Then is it not "replacing" what was already being used? Again, apathy! People willing to allow asinine infringements to exist, which is leading to a future that will be void of the very thing that is lauded within this very platform.

If ammo MFGs stop making an "off the shelf" offering(s), how long until the components for reloading dry up? What I'm being told is, "better stock up" .... how does the mentality of "I got mine, should've got yours ...." ensure the future of big game hunting? How does that mentality ensure the future of any hunting & fishing? How is "target shooting" more popular, when it has always been popular? It is NOT that target shooting is "more" popular, it's that less people are hunting!

Naw, I'll stop my rant there, because it is getting off the OP .....

I joined this forum in 2011, and walked away a little over 10yrs ago. I recently decided to see if things had changed, it seems things are stil status quo.
 
Xpraetor said:
I had no preconceived "want" , I hoped there would be a pulse of understanding of what is on the horizon, I hoped there would be thread of desire to stop it. Instead, what I got, was apathy....

What any company has an obligation to is the market & profit, however the issue is in the 21st cent. "companies" are no longer following a true demand / supply market. Instead they are following a manipulation market model.

As for 350 Legend , it is evidence # 1 of "market manipulation" , as it was supposedly developed to appease some ridiculous law = manipulation. Then is it not "replacing" what was already being used? Again, apathy! People willing to allow asinine infringements to exist, which is leading to a future that will be void of the very thing that is lauded within this very platform.

If ammo MFGs stop making an "off the shelf" offering(s), how long until the components for reloading dry up? What I'm being told is, "better stock up" .... how does the mentality of "I got mine, should've got yours ...." ensure the future of big game hunting? How does that mentality ensure the future of any hunting & fishing? How is "target shooting" more popular, when it has always been popular? It is NOT that target shooting is "more" popular, it's that less people are hunting!

Naw, I'll stop my rant there, because it is getting off the OP .....

I joined this forum in 2011, and walked away a little over 10yrs ago. I recently decided to see if things had changed, it seems things are stil status quo.
Click to expand...
If you walk away again, I doubt your contributions will be missed if this is what to expect. In the meantime, I’d suggest you look at Midway for different offerings from different ammo manufacturers since all the cartridges in your first post are currently in stock in some form or if you’d like some semi-custom offerings Hendershots has numerous bullet options available to you. It appears you are complaining because one company doesn’t make what you want anymore. There are other options.

For your other rant, I think going from shotgun slug only to straight wall rifle cartridges in Midwest states is a positive step. I’m not sure why you’d want to think otherwise unless you don’t know any better. The previous options were basically 444 marlin, 45/70, or pistol cartridges. I’m indifferent to the 350 Legend, but it filled a void that didn’t really exist before to meet the law and provide some better trajectory with less recoil than previously available.
 
My contributions are more than the sum of pontificating on some digital forum, and your ad hominem assessment of the aforementioned is of little concern. I don't know you, and you don't know me so I feel it's best to leave it at that.
I am well aware of "other offerings" , and your reply just validates what I previously stated.

Again, you fail to see the idiocy of restricting rifle hunting to a case type/design. It accomplishes nothing other than to infringe on the hunter. The fact is there should be zero restrictions with exception to caliber. Furthermore. .350 Legend is just an example, there are over a dozen more examples, you are fixated on that 1 example as I referenced 2 in my other comment.

I did not insult you directly, nor did I insult anyone else directly, what I did was give a personal assessment that is based on the present landscape of USA society that holds true. The proof is in posts within this very forum - Companies that are anti- Hunting , 2 states have bills that will effectively outlaw hunting, hunters attacking private land ownership, etc.... & to include "straight walled" case restrictions & ammo scarcity,

I get it, you don't like what I typed, and you don't see a problem, so we can end this back & forth.
 
93marlin said:
if it doesn't make sense economically, don't continue to produce it at a loss.
Click to expand...

More precisely what i suspect is happening is the widespread adaptation of "just in time" inventory stocking. Companies just arent going to pay inventory tax on SKU's that arent going to move. So what likely happens in this case is the manufacturer starts doing batch runs of goods once the backorder log is sufficient to warrant a run of the product. When they're out, they're out. They'd rather be sold out of low volume goods than sitting on inventory to fill trickle orders. The price of inventory is being passed on to the customer, who has to stock more if they want more. The days of going to any hardware store and having a selection of .338 win mag on the shelf are long gone and very unlikely to come back. The same effect can be seen even with more popular calibers like 7 mag and even to an extent .30-06. Companies are trimming SKUs across the product lines to make room for what does move in volume - 5.56, .223, .308, 9mm, and whatever the new thing is this month.

It is frustrating but it isnt insurmountable. A factory ammo shooter with a non-mainstream caliber of choice simply has to be his own warehouse for ammunition.
 
As many of you, I also hand load. Several years ago I kept the Winchester .375 H&H cases for a particular rifle. I kept other brands for other .375's so that I would sort out the cases and reload the same fired cases for the same rifle. The problem became aparent when Winchester discontinued brass for .375 H&H, I had to scrounge cases from friends and gun shows. Primers, powder and of course bullets are in scarce supply at times. As already stated above, business decisions may result in a change of direction for us customers.
 
Velo Dog said:
We, the consumers of guns and ammunition are being “gas lighted”.
Winchester, Remington and Ruger (+ others I can’t remember at the moment) have shot themselves in the foot, so to speak by introducing a seemingly endless supply of weird and ABSOLUTELY MEANINGLESS cartridges, that really do NOTHING new (at least nothing new that makes any significant difference).
This, instead of remaining loyal to customers who have bought and / or inherited rifles from ancestors, in perfectly adequate calibers.

The following are a pinhole peek into just a few examples of the “We already have that” cartridges..

.22 Hornet vs .22 K-Hornet.
.22-250 Remington vs .220 Swift.
.243 Winchester, .244 & 6MM Remington vs .257 Roberts.
.260 Remington & 6.5 Creedmoor vs 6.5x55 & 6.5x57 Mauser.
7MM-08 Remington vs 7x57 Mauser.
.270 Winchester & .280 Remington vs 7x64 Brenneke.
.300 Winchester vs .300 H&H.
.338 Winchester vs 8x68 Schuler.

There are more but I’ll spare the readers any further agony.

If the gun and ammunition makers were to announce a new shotgun and new gauge or gauges, such as, 21 gauge, 17 gauge, 13 gauge, etc. especially in a straight pull action, with plastic thumb hole stock, muzzle brake, several piccatinny rails all over it, fluted barrel, video game compatible, Harry Potter themed etching, etc., etc., I wonder how many thousands of them would sell in today’s strange new world.

And don’t even get me started on “Wildcat” cartridges designed after about the 1960’s. :ROFLMAO:

Those of us who fall for such redundancy, are exactly who PT Barnum was referring to.

And with that, I shall stand by for my “not a team player” punishment.:A Voodoo:

Velo Duck out.
Click to expand...
The only people gaslighting consumers of guns and ammunition are consumers of guns and ammunition. Gotta have that new rifle, cartridge, hunting clothes, wristwatch, truck, etc.... Literally makes everyone "guilty" of being part of the demand for the supply.

That creates an "industry". If there is no demand, there is no industry. If the only cartridge on the entire planet was cartridge X, and you only had one or two of the same cartridge, there would only be remaining one company cranking out two choices part time. Why, no demand means no particular reason to even do business with you. You are forced to them, and they know it. How many millions and billions of dollars are spent on the best buggy whip? No one, because NOBODY still uses a horse and buggy. Those newfangled motor carriages took over.

The creation of a huge amount of choice in arms, cartridges, bullets, powders, etc... IS the industry, and would NOT exist according to your we only need one cartridge wishes. At no time in history has more boutique ammo ever been made, just perhaps not your favorite at a given moment.

Your new ammo wasn't built in 1893 or 1905. It was built "today". The machine dispassionately cares less how much emotional attachment you have to a piece of brass, and is easily capable of switching to some other emotional attachments in minutes, should the demand occur.

Your actual anger is that very few have voted with you, with their wallets and purchases. Quite a few more fine folks from this forum than the general public, but this small village stands alone. The masses are buying something else (and yet, the industry *still* manages to crank out the most obscure desires, just not on a full time basis).

No choices, no industry. No industry, no choices. The "machine" is why you have so many choices, and the forum upon which to be unhappy about those choices you disagree with.

Man, I hate it too sometimes when my favorite products are no longer available. But blaming the proliferation of cartridges is factually not true. The diversity and amount of ammo made per person is higher than any previous point in history.
 
Last edited:
akrifleman said:
The only people gaslighting consumers of guns and ammunition are consumers of guns and ammunition. Gotta have that new rifle, cartridge, hunting clothes, wristwatch, truck, etc.... Literally makes everyone "guilty" of being part of the demand for the supply.

That creates an "industry". If there is no demand, there is no industry. If the only cartridge on the entire planet was cartridge X, and you only had one or two of the same cartridge, there would only be remaining one company cranking out two choices part time. Why, no demand means no particular reason to even do business with you. You are forced to them, and they know it. How many millions and billions of dollars are spent on the best buggy whip? No one, because NOBODY still uses a horse and buggy. Those newfangled motor carriages took over.

The creation of a huge amount of choice in arms, cartridges, bullets, powders, etc... IS the industry, and would NOT exist according to your we only need one cartridge wishes. At no time in history has more boutique ammo ever been made, just perhaps not your favorite at a given moment.

Your new ammo wasn't built in 1893 or 1905. It was built "today". The machine dispassionately cares less how much emotional attachment you have to a piece of brass, and is easily capable of switching to some other emotional attachments in minutes, should the demand occur.

Your actual anger is that very few have voted with you, with their wallets and purchases. Quite a few more fine folks from this forum than the general public, but this small village stands alone. The masses are buying something else (and yet, the industry *still* manages to crank out the most obscure desires, just not on a full time basis).

No choices, no industry. No industry, no choices. The "machine" is why you have so many choices, and the forum upon which to be unhappy about those choices you disagree with.

Man, I hate it too sometimes when my favorite products are no longer available. But blaming the proliferation of cartridges is factually not true. The diversity and amount of ammo made per person is higher than any previous point in history.
Click to expand...
Or they could make better.
The short win and rem mags are a starting point.
Especially Winchester Tryed to duplicate there standard mag. Cartridge.
If the 25 was as fast of faster than the 257 wb instead of the 25-06
Same with the 7 and 270.
Imagine for light rifle users if the 223 wsm was able to shot a 80-90 gr at nearly 4000 fps

Lighter rifles than the wb cheaper and cheaper ammo than the wb
 
akrifleman said:
The only people gaslighting consumers of guns and ammunition are consumers of guns and ammunition. Gotta have that new rifle, cartridge, hunting clothes, wristwatch, truck, etc.... Literally makes everyone "guilty" of being part of the demand for the supply.

That creates an "industry". If there is no demand, there is no industry. If the only cartridge on the entire planet was cartridge X, and you only had one or two of the same cartridge, there would only be remaining one company cranking out two choices part time. Why, no demand means no particular reason to even do business with you. You are forced to them, and they know it. How many millions and billions of dollars are spent on the best buggy whip? No one, because NOBODY still uses a horse and buggy. Those newfangled motor carriages took over.

The creation of a huge amount of choice in arms, cartridges, bullets, powders, etc... IS the industry, and would NOT exist according to your we only need one cartridge wishes. At no time in history has more boutique ammo ever been made, just perhaps not your favorite at a given moment.

Your new ammo wasn't built in 1893 or 1905. It was built "today". The machine dispassionately cares less how much emotional attachment you have to a piece of brass, and is easily capable of switching to some other emotional attachments in minutes, should the demand occur.

Your actual anger is that very few have voted with you, with their wallets and purchases. Quite a few more fine folks from this forum than the general public, but this small village stands alone. The masses are buying something else (and yet, the industry *still* manages to crank out the most obscure desires, just not on a full time basis).

No choices, no industry. No industry, no choices. The "machine" is why you have so many choices, and the forum upon which to be unhappy about those choices you disagree with.

Man, I hate it too sometimes when my favorite products are no longer available. But blaming the proliferation of cartridges is factually not true. The diversity and amount of ammo made per person is higher than any previous point in history.
Click to expand...
Or they could market what’s all ready out there.
Long range loads for the 6.5x55 loaded like the 6.5 cm
They could still sell new rifles in the older cal.
I only know 4 people that hunt ( locally)with a 6.5x55 any more and 3 of them never heard of the cartridge before I told them about it
 
Flbt said:
Or they could make better.
The short win and rem mags are a starting point.
Especially Winchester Tryed to duplicate there standard mag. Cartridge.
If the 25 was as fast of faster than the 257 wb instead of the 25-06
Same with the 7 and 270.
Imagine for light rifle users if the 223 wsm was able to shot a 80-90 gr at nearly 4000 fps

Lighter rifles than the wb cheaper and cheaper ammo than the wb
Click to expand...
Well, they do try. But SAMMI and CIP specs are historical problems. Things like shape and pressure are fine for handloading, but for factory stuff it is very difficult. They have to support all historical arms and chamber variations in those cartridges, some of which were very loosely defined or very sloppy in the pre-CNC days.

The 6.8 Western was an example of "fixing" the 270 WSM, and it was met with "the 270 already exists". But, there tons of 270s with chambers that were cut from a very old specification. Yes, you can today cut a match chamber 270 with a twist and throat that makes it "better", but now it is a wildcat.

Same thing with things like the 223 WSM. To improve it, means you have to submit a new specification for a "new cartridge". That usually results in everyone getting mad a yet a another "new" cartridge was invented that didn't do anything the old one didn't.

Even bullet diameter today has made a big impact. Chamber diameters used to have to account for a large variation in bullet diameter, now they can be made much tighter. But, to change the specification .001 of freebore diameter, means a new official cartridge to accommodate the new specification. Otherwise, you again have a wildcat, and not a commercial cartridge.

Everyone knows 6.5x55s Swede factory ammo is usually under powered, due to a historic pressure limit. Most handloaders in modern chambers could easily reach 65,000psi, but then you have again... as you have guessed, a new cartridge.

At the end of the day, the brass is just a gasket. A 375H&H today isn't remotely the same as it was 120 yrs ago, just on powder choices alone. It is the entire specification for pressure, leade angles, shoulder angles, freebore diameter and freebore length, support for modern bullet choices, etc that is really what has changed. It really didn't matter if that piece of brass had a parent of existing brass or not. Honestly, most cartridges are made from the same limited variations of "basic brass" to make manufacturing simpler.
 
Flbt said:
Or they could market what’s all ready out there.
Long range loads for the 6.5x55 loaded like the 6.5 cm
They could still sell new rifles in the older cal.
I only know 4 people that hunt ( locally)with a 6.5x55 any more and 3 of them never heard of the cartridge before I told them about it
Click to expand...
Long range loads for the 6.5x55 loaded like the 6.5 cm
Can't.
Historic specifications. You now have a "new" cartridge. Somebody takes a "modern" loading and blows up an old gun. Lawsuits abound. Doesn't even need to be true.
 
akrifleman said:
Well, they do try. But SAMMI and CIP specs are historical problems. Things like shape and pressure are fine for handloading, but for factory stuff it is very difficult. They have to support all historical arms and chamber variations in those cartridges, some of which were very loosely defined or very sloppy in the pre-CNC days.

The 6.8 Western was an example of "fixing" the 270 WSM, and it was met with "the 270 already exists". But, there tons of 270s with chambers that were cut from a very old specification. Yes, you can today cut a match chamber 270 with a twist and throat that makes it "better", but now it is a wildcat.

Same thing with things like the 223 WSM. To improve it, means you have to submit a new specification for a "new cartridge". That usually results in everyone getting mad a yet a another "new" cartridge was invented that didn't do anything the old one didn't.

Even bullet diameter today has made a big impact. Chamber diameters used to have to account for a large variation in bullet diameter, now they can be made much tighter. But, to change the specification .001 of freebore diameter, means a new official cartridge to accommodate the new specification. Otherwise, you again have a wildcat, and not a commercial cartridge.

Everyone knows 6.5x55s Swede factory ammo is usually under powered, due to a historic pressure limit. Most handloaders in modern chambers could easily reach 65,000psi, but then you have again... as you have guessed, a new cartridge.

At the end of the day, the brass is just a gasket. A 375H&H today isn't remotely the same as it was 120 yrs ago, just on powder choices alone. It is the entire specification for pressure, leade angles, shoulder angles, freebore diameter and freebore length, support for modern bullet choices, etc that is really what has changed. It really didn't matter if that piece of brass had a parent of existing brass or not. Honestly, most cartridges are made from the same limited variations of "basic brass" to make manufacturing simpler.
Click to expand...
I am not talking of trying to improve the 270 and 223 sorts
When they were introduced they should have been better offing more than what was all ready available with other cartridge
They did not offer enough/ or better than what was all ready there
 
akrifleman said:
Long range loads for the 6.5x55 loaded like the 6.5 cm
Can't.
Historic specifications. You now have a "new" cartridge. Somebody takes a "modern" loading and blows up an old gun. Lawsuits abound. Doesn't even need to be true.
Click to expand...
The 6.5 loads were a bit tongue and cheek
Looking in gun digest they have a cm 140 gr 2710 fps and a 55 load 140gr 2735 fps
So what exactly does the cm offer?
 
Mark Biggerstaff said:
Winchester is like other ammo manufacture companies. Low volume selling loadings are being dropped all togather. I have noticed others have dropped loadings they used to offer.
Click to expand...
Certainly cannot blame ammo makers for dropping low selling calibers. I have no idea how small gun shops begin to stock ammo when there are a gazillion calibers out there.
 
Flbt said:
what exactly does the cm offer?
Click to expand...

"Standard" bolt face and short action length. The swede is a little off on both, slightly smaller at the base and slightly longer overall. It isnt just a barrel swap from a "standard" short action rifle like the cripplemoor.
 
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