Thoughts on Recoil/Tables, Learnt my Lesson

I had been shooting a 45-70 at the range and found it to be pretty sharp so was a bit worried about the CZ 375H&H I had recently gotten and borderline fearful about a Heym 416 Rigby acquired at the same time. I had been looking at recoil tables and watch utube videos of folks falling over. I was thinking I might need to face the music and sell them if they were horribly unpleasant….

Cut to today when I finally made it to the range with these and a few others. I was happily surprised the 375H&H was really just fine (actually kind of like a firm massage) and the 416 I found to be not much more. I was surprised the Lipsey’s 9.3x62 felt about as much as the 416 and moving my 375 Blaser barrel between different stocks, Kilombero and professional, you could really tell the sharpness difference.

I knew logically that load, bullet weight, and rifle weight should make a difference, but didn't really internalize it and over built the fear based on a lighter 45-70 rifle and social media exaggerations. So I learnt my lesson to not fear caliber alone and ya that rifle weight/load/bullet actual make a big felt difference.

The funny thing though was after the big bore I tried my Sig Spear in 308, I thought about a gun tuber who complaining about the recoil, but after the other rifles all I could think about was “what recoil?”.

Definitely not selling anything now! A happy learning experience for me, probably what everyone else already knew!

Happy D-Day to all and thanks to the Greatest Generation.

As you experienced, the stock layout and design (along with gun weight) have a huge influence on the felt recoil. We all feel recoil differently but the lever guns accentuate some recoil and if you scope them, it might feel worse due to getting chopped in the cheeks. The straight line stocks built for optics and heavier recoil feel different, thus you can handle more of it. I had a Marlin guide gun converted to 50 Alaskan that would torque sideways upon shooting and had a nasty habit of shearing screws off the mag tube. I beefed it up to use on elephant and then sold it afterwards. I don't miss it.

Recoil is really just a matter of mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it don’t matter. Seriously though the CZ rifles are built rugged which means they carry some weight which helps mitigate recoil. The stock configuration also helps, same goes for the Heym. I find European style stocks mitigate recoil much better than the straight American style stock, but that is just my opinion and experience. Shoot and enjoy.

Stock layout, but perhaps even more so weight, and probably most important expectation.

As @MS 9x56 so elegantly put it, if you don't mind, it won't matter. Combined with actual bodily experience (not tiktok/yt) you can learn to handle almost anything.

Fire a mag of .308's and then fire a 375. Ouch.
Fire a mag of 458's and then a 375. What recoil?

This said, I DO think that the 'bore' rifles of yesteryear actually were quite punishing. (see writings of Selous etc), regardless of how many times they were fired and in what order.

I grew up hunting big game with 12 gauge shotguns shooting 1 oz or 1 1/4oz slugs out of 7 1/2 lb shotguns. You learned how to handle recoil or you couldn’t hunt. After that a 30-06 is a pussycat.

I have a Winchester 1886 Lightweight in 45-70. Straight stock, metal butt plate. 400gr loads at 1700 fps are brutal in this rifle.

For the curious and those interested in recoil, I'm attaching the link to Chuck Hawks' recoil table. Of course handloads will vary, but will still be close to this table.

MS 9x56 said:

I grew up hunting big game with 12 gauge shotguns shooting 1 oz or 1 1/4oz slugs out of 7 1/2 lb shotguns. You learned how to handle recoil or you couldn’t hunt. After that a 30-06 is a pussycat.

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This is the truth.

If you can shoot a 3 1/2" shotgun loads repeatedly at waterfowl, you should be able to shoot any of the big bores off shooting sticks.....

What helped me the most was comparing every cartridge I shoot to 3" magnum turkey loads. Look it up on Chuck Hawk's. A 3" mag from a super duper full choke is no joke. Maybe it was a placebo, but I'll take it. @Mekaniks knows his stuff...

Hedge774 said:

What helped me the most was comparing every cartridge I shoot to 3" magnum turkey loads. Look it up on Chuck Hawk's. A 3" mag from a super duper full choke is no joke. Maybe it was a placebo, but I'll take it. @Mekaniks knows his stuff...

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Ditto!

I prefer backfire recoil table. Chuck hawks is a bit outdated ….

JoeSoap said:

I had been shooting a 45-70 at the range and found it to be pretty sharp so was a bit worried about the CZ 375H&H I had recently gotten and borderline fearful about a Heym 416 Rigby acquired at the same time. I had been looking at recoil tables and watch utube videos of folks falling over. I was thinking I might need to face the music and sell them if they were horribly unpleasant….

Cut to today when I finally made it to the range with these and a few others. I was happily surprised the 375H&H was really just fine (actually kind of like a firm massage) and the 416 I found to be not much more. I was surprised the Lipsey’s 9.3x62 felt about as much as the 416 and moving my 375 Blaser barrel between different stocks, Kilombero and professional, you could really tell the sharpness difference.

I knew logically that load, bullet weight, and rifle weight should make a difference, but didn't really internalize it and over built the fear based on a lighter 45-70 rifle and social media exaggerations. So I learnt my lesson to not fear caliber alone and ya that rifle weight/load/bullet actual make a big felt difference.

The funny thing though was after the big bore I tried my Sig Spear in 308, I thought about a gun tuber who complaining about the recoil, but after the other rifles all I could think about was “what recoil?”.

Definitely not selling anything now! A happy learning experience for me, probably what everyone else already knew!

Happy D-Day to all and thanks to the Greatest Generation.

Click to expand...

Happy D-Day if that's such a thing to you. Your 45-70 if it's a lever gun probably has a much narrower butt section too which concentrates the recoil.

High-velocity rounds like most Weatherbys, Ultramags, Nosler calibers, and such recoil in a nastier way than slower rounds, even when the total energy is similar. Most big-bores run relatively large bullets at relatively slower speeds. This translates to a slower recoil pulse - more of a shove than a jab.

Don’t forget concussive muzzle blast and sound. The brain doesn’t like certain things. A hit to the shoulder is one thing, but throw in a horrendous bang and a concussive slap and you can get a nasty flinch. One of the reasons suppressors reduce “felt” recoil is slower dispersal of the gas charge, but also the massive reduction in sound energy. Muzzle brakes are sort of a trade off. More sound, less shoulder slap.

Most .300 class magnums shoot in the 3100-3400 fps range with 180 grain bullets. They’re generally manageable, but there’s no way anyone would tolerate big bores at that velocity. Even the mighty .460 Weatherby is geared to shoot in the 2600-2700 fps range. There doesn’t seem to be any practical reason to try to throw a 300 or 400 grain bullet at high velocities. Recoil would be off the charts in a rifle small enough to carry.

Rifle weight is incredibly important. I have a youth model 7mm-08 that kicks viciously. It would be child abuse to let a youngster near it. Stock design, stock material, length of pull, and the width/depth of the recoil pad (or no recoil pad at all) are also important.

The .470 nitro with its 500 grain bullets has virtually identical energy as the faster (but still slow) .416 Rigby with its 400 grain bullets. The .600 nitro is (barely) manageable recoil-wise, but it pushes a 900 grain cinder block bullet along at a relatively slow 1950 fps.

I have big guns and not so big guns. To avoid getting punchy, I just avoid shooting the 404 at the range as much as possible. My WWII Springfield in 30-06 has manageable recoil for range practice and once I complete changing its safety it will be essentially identical in physical function to the DGR Mauser. If I wanted to play at the range, that's the gun I'd shoot. But I've never been a fan of punching a lot of paper anyway so my range time with rifles is typically limited to working up a load and checking zero.

Shotgun is a different matter. One gun fits all applications. I shoot a heavy old magnum Browning A5 twelve gauge for everything. And I mean everything. It fires brutal recoiling 3" 1 1/8 oz BB steel @ 1550 fps when I'm hunting geese. For pheasants it's loaded up with more modest 2.75" 1250 fps #5 lead (or faster #4 steel for federal refuge). And yes, I shoot the same old beater at the skeet and clays range (usually several thousand rounds per year) where we are only allowed light relatively slow loads. I simply swap out the 3" barrel spring and recoil brake for 2.75" stuff and add a spacer bushing to adjust for shorter spring. Presto, the big magnum gun becomes a puny range gun. Beware the man who shoots one gun, especially if he owns a close working pointing Lab. .

Shooting the same gun with different loads does improve my field accuracy I'm sure. But if I shot thousands of goose loads at the range every year, I probably wouldn't be able to hit a thing in the field (because with my history of retina issues I probably wouldn't be able to see anything in the field!). I can envision essentially doing the same thing with my 404J that I do with the A5. Shoot light fast bullets for plains game and heavy slower bullets for buffalo or eland. It would simply require changing scopes when I change loads and that's easily done with QD rings. Still, I don't see myself shooting thousands of 404 rounds at the range even if the recoil is tamed. I don't see the point in it, it's expensive, and I don't enjoy it (largely because it's expensive ). I very much enjoy shooting moving targets at the skeet/clays range and that is a skill which does require a lot of practice to develop properly. It is also a skill that is very much applicable in the field, whether hunting birds or big game. Shooting paper ... not so much.