Blaser R8 - 458 WM or 458 Lott

Kevin Peacocke said:

I agree with you Toby. Do you know of a good DG scope with long eye relief that has the rail mount?

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The Swaro Z6i SR series is the one to find.

1) As a handloader and with long enough magazine length and committed to handloading monometal go with the .458 Win Mag.
2) If wanting to maximize factory ammo options go with the .458 Lott.
3) If wanting to optimize then as @Riflecrank says “You can fix a SAAMI .458 Lott by running a SAAMI .458 WIN MAG reamer into it with a non-cutting belt stop.” go with the .458 Lott barrel and ream the bullet seat.

Kevin Peacocke said:

I agree with you Toby. Do you know of a good DG scope with long eye relief that has the rail mount?

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I'm not Toby, but @TOBY458 do talk a good bit.

My recommendation would be the Z6i 1-6x24 but they are hard to find and I don't believe I've seen them in a rail mount option. The old 30mm tube version of the Z8i 1-8x24 may be an alternative.

If I were looking at a DG rifle in the cartridge range of 458WM/458LOTT or 500J, I would most likely go with a red dot with an enclosed emitter like the AimPoint H2/T2 and put it in a mount from INNOMOUNT. They are like the Blaser mounts, but taken to the next level. The levers don't rotate so there is no possible interference with a scope turret. They also use a metric Allen to adjust the tension instead of a slotted screw like Blaser does. Not to mention they are about half the cost, top quality, made in Germany and available to fit a variety of optics/rifles.

The are available from Titanium Gunworks

Certus said:

Several people in this thread who have or had both have all said go the win mag.

@hoytcanon may I ask why?

Personally I’d go the WM but I’m bias as it was my first big bore. It also does everything asked of it with minimal fuss.

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Because it is "enough." At some point in one's life, you realize that you don't need "more," and that enough is enough. With some of the newer 400 and 450 grain bullets, at full power, there is nothing that the .458 Win Mag can't handily take care of.

I still enjoy and shoot my RSM Lott, but it is just for giggles... if I am serious, I just grab my WM Carbine and a tailored load and "git er dun!"

hoytcanon said:

Because it is "enough." At some point in one's life, you realize that you don't need "more," and that enough is enough. With some of the newer 400 and 450 grain bullets, at full power, there is nothing that the .458 Win Mag can't handily take care of.

I still enjoy and shoot my RSM Lott, but it is just for giggles... if I am serious, I just grab my WM Carbine and a tailored load and "git er dun!"

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To add to that, a 45 Colt/280/1100 will go through everything. What does a Lott do that a WM cannot?

SLG said:

To add to that, a 45 Colt/280/1100 will go through everything. What does a Lott do that a WM cannot?

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The larger case of the 458LOTT gives the shooter more options than the 458WM, especially if they reload.

To put in muscle car terms, there's no replacement for displacement.

BeeMaa said:

The larger case of the 458LOTT gives the shooter more options than the 458WM, especially if they reload.

To put in muscle car terms, there's no replacement for displacement.

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There is nothing wrong with likeing the Lott, but that is not how terminal ballistics works.

@SLG - I know who you are in the shooting world and respect your opinion. But for you to think I don't understand how terminal ballistics work would a gross miscalculation on your part.

What I am saying, is the Lott case gives more options for those that have chosen it. Sometimes it means pushing a bullet faster to achieve better accuracy, however I also understand that some projectiles being used aren't up to the task of handling that additional speed. Plus the Lott has the versatility of being able to shoot Win Mag ammo in the same rifle if the need ever came up.

There is much enlightenment needed still if BeeMaa is this ignorant.
I'll honor Memorial Day until midnight.
Then back to war with Lottite ignorance.

BeeMaa said:

@SLG - I know who you are in the shooting world and respect your opinion. But for you to think I don't understand how terminal ballistics work would a gross miscalculation on your part.

What I am saying, is the Lott case gives more options for those that have chosen it. Sometimes it means pushing a bullet faster to achieve better accuracy, however I also understand that some projectiles being used aren't up to the task of handling that additional speed. Plus the Lott has the versatility of being able to shoot Win Mag ammo in the same rifle if the need ever came up.

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As I said, if you like the Lott, I won't fault you. People like what they like and the lott does let you choose between lott loads and WM loads, if that is an issue for you in some far flung place. I am unaware of a WM bullet that needs more velocity than the WM allows for it be accurate, but I am far from a complete 458 reloader.

The statement about displacement is simply not correct and is what caused me to comment. I have always enjoyed your posts and none of this is meant in a confrontational way. I just got back from a pistol nationals this past week and had enough confrontation with angry shooters there.

No replacement for displacement might apply when discussing a 358 or 375 vs a 458, but at a certain point, simply adding velocity does not help our terminal ballistics cause. Since we are discussing two cartridges with 458 bullets in them, I can only assume your reference to displacement referred to velocity, rather than bullet size.

My point was that a 458 will do all that it can do from a WM, and that any added velocity is wasted on the far side of the animal. If I had to shoot two animals lined up, I might choose a 460 Weatherby for that rather strange requirement, but for single animal hunting, a WM has all of the everything you can ask a 458 to give.

Did I misunderstand your reference to displacement? Internet posts are not a good thing to base human interactions on.

@SLG - I was talking more about heavier bullets in the 500 and 550 grain weights and being able to send them at 2200 to 2300 fps.

The larger Lott case allows a heavier bullet to be sent and still maintain a speed of 2200 or better. Plus it's not a Weatherby case and avoids the weird looking stock and muzzle brake that so often accompanies them. Not to mention the versatility of being able to shoot 458WM loads if necessary.

In the end I'm not likely to shoot any of them with an impending shoulder surgery on the horizon.

I’m glad to see the .458 Win and .458 Lott discussion come back up. With the help of @Riflecrank I learned of the SAAMI throat differences between the two along with monometal bullet technology. I understand why the .458 Win makes sense with monometal handloading if the rifle is an Under-Lever Falling Block or a bolt gun with 2.850” magazine length. Now that brings me to the writer Terry Wieland who says if he was limited to one rifle cartridge to hunt the world it would be the .458 Lott. Terry says the Lott can push 600 grain bullets or for long range 300 grain bullets at 3,000 fps for long range Mountain Goat or Sheep Hunting. And per @Riflecrank the Lott SAAMI chamber can be cleaned up with a .458 Win reamer. Does it surprise you Terry’s choice is the .458 Lott?

@BeeMaa sorry to hear about shoulder situation. I’m certain you have a skilled surgeon but another thought is to contact your favorite or local NFL Team and ask for their trainer. They will recommend their team orthopedic surgeon which you may want to consider because those guys stay on the cutting edge of orthopedic procedures.

@Schüler Jumbo - I appreciate the concern. The surgeon I'm going to does work for both the Washington Capitals and Commanders. He's affiliated with the Anderson Clinic that is one of the top orthopedic practices in the nation. I'm in good hands and have already been in touch with a post-operative specialist for physical therapy. The team is confident I can get back to fishing, hunting and the shooting sports. However I may be leaving the .400+ club behind. It's a small concession considering the ease with which a 375H&H can be shot.