What is your accuracy standard for a Big Bore bolt gun?

But about the American brands ? Hornady, Federal, Nosler, Barnes ?
Not available locally, but certainly by internet. I was about to say but Mail order, but then I'd have shown my age. ;)

Right now I have Remington factory ammo loaded with the 300 grain Swift AFrame, and factory Barnes with the 300 grain X available. I may order some factory Federal TBBC or factory Swift ammo with the AFrame bullets.
 
The largest caliber I own is a 375 H&H so not a big bore but being an avid reloader since the late 70's, my accuracy expectations are high. My 375 H&H hand loaded with Barnes 300 gr TSX bullets will clover leaf 3 rounds at 100 yards.
That level of accuracy is not necessarily needed for Buffalo but for Croc, the tighter the groups the better. I shot my croc at 65 yards from the prone position behind and a little below the smile and then followed up quickly with a shot right behind the shoulder. The only thing that moved was his mouth slamming shut, his tail slashing a few times and it was over. I shot him as he was sunning on the bank.
You do not want to put the trackers in a position of having to go into the water searching for a wounded crocodile.
 
My accuracy standards for all hunting are pretty high. A paper target deserves nothing. A game animal deserves all I can do. Good accuracy yields high confidence. I like high confidence when hunting, dangerous game or not.

My “biggest” rifle is a 450 Watts bolt gun. It does have significant recoil. If I can concentrate on steady hold and good trigger, it is capable of outstanding accuracy. It is inherently accurate. It is based on a Montana action with 8 groove Lilja barrel, pillar bedded in Winchester 70 stock.
 
You're taking your better half and her new 30-06 so why not borrow it for croc? I presume she will hunt buffalo too? She won't be doing it with her 30-06. Will she be using your 375?

If you're stuck on one gun, I would suggest considering QD rings and an extra scope. Then you have the option of switching loads for different animals. For starters, a higher magnification scope would definitely be an advantage for popping a croc in the brain bucket. Lower magnification is better for close in shooting, especially if target is an inbound and angry 1700 lb buffalo. Lighter 375 bullets may give you a better grouping. Also might be less likely to blow the skull to bits. Pull the velocity back some on the croc loads and see how that works on paper. Especially with <300 gr bullets, less velocity would be likely to get less fragmentation/deforming after impact. Most of the time a good mushroom is what's desired. But shooting a croc in the skull with a lunker 375 caliber should be sufficient with just the diameter of the bullet alone. I would not want to trust a long distance taxidermist to put a shattered skull back together properly (I'm presuming you want a skull mount and skin, not full body mount - also presuming you don't live in Windsor Castle :D ). Of course, this is assuming you will have the option of reloading. Pretty much impossible to buy anything but 300 gr ammo over the counter for 375. But much lighter modern tech bullets in that caliber will work, even on buffalo. Ask me how I know! Just make sure if going with lighter copper bullets to put enough gas in the case. With two scopes each being zeroed for their specific load, you can switch loads for different game.
 
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You're taking your better half and her new 30-06 so why not borrow it for croc? I presume she will hunt buffalo too? She won't be doing it with her 30-06. Will she be using your 375?

If you're stuck on one gun, I would suggest considering QD rings and an extra scope. Then you have the option of switching loads for different animals. For starters, a higher magnification scope would definitely be an advantage for popping a croc in the brain bucket. Lower magnification is better for close in shooting, especially if target is an inbound and angry 1700 lb buffalo. Lighter 375 bullets may give you a better grouping. Also might be less likely to blow the skull to bits. Pull the velocity back some on the croc loads and see how that works on paper. Especially with <300 gr bullets, less velocity would be likely to get less fragmentation/deforming after impact. Most of the time a good mushroom is what's desired. But shooting a croc in the skull with a lunker 375 caliber should be sufficient with just the diameter of the bullet alone. I would not want to trust a long distance taxidermist to put a shattered skull back together properly (I'm presuming you want a skull mount and skin, not full body mount - also presuming you don't live in Windsor Castle :D ). Of course, this is assuming you will have the option of reloading. Pretty much impossible to buy anything but 300 gr ammo over the counter for 375. But much lighter modern tech bullets in that caliber will work, even on buffalo. Ask me how I know! Just make sure if going with lighter copper bullets to put enough gas in the case. With two scopes each being zeroed for their specific load, you can switch loads for different game.
To clarify: croc = lighter than 300 gr and less velocity. Buffalo with lighter than 300 gr copper bullets requires lots of gas to make them penetrate and expand sufficiently. Neither expansion or deep penetration should be needed for shooting a croc in the head. I would not expect the two loads to zero anywhere close to each other, hence the need for two scopes.
 
You're taking your better half and her new 30-06 so why not borrow it for croc? I presume she will hunt buffalo too? She won't be doing it with her 30-06. Will she be using your 375?

If you're stuck on one gun, I would suggest considering QD rings and an extra scope. Then you have the option of switching loads for different animals. For starters, a higher magnification scope would definitely be an advantage for popping a croc in the brain bucket. Lower magnification is better for close in shooting, especially if target is an inbound and angry 1700 lb buffalo. Lighter 375 bullets may give you a better grouping. Also might be less likely to blow the skull to bits. Pull the velocity back some on the croc loads and see how that works on paper. Especially with <300 gr bullets, less velocity would be likely to get less fragmentation/deforming after impact. Most of the time a good mushroom is what's desired. But shooting a croc in the skull with a lunker 375 caliber should be sufficient with just the diameter of the bullet alone. I would not want to trust a long distance taxidermist to put a shattered skull back together properly (I'm presuming you want a skull mount and skin, not full body mount - also presuming you don't live in Windsor Castle :D ). Of course, this is assuming you will have the option of reloading. Pretty much impossible to buy anything but 300 gr ammo over the counter for 375. But much lighter modern tech bullets in that caliber will work, even on buffalo. Ask me how I know! Just make sure if going with lighter copper bullets to put enough gas in the case. With two scopes each being zeroed for their specific load, you can switch loads for different game.
No, we're only taking the 375 and the 257.

I actually like her 30-06 quite a bit, even though the stock is to short for me. The rifle is light for an 06, but it's one of the lightest kicking of that caliber I've ever shot. If we were taking it, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a Croc. (y)
 
Like they said you really have two questions.

Acceptable accuracy in a big bore. Most big bore just plain flat shoot well and it is the shooter that is the weak link. I have only had one 9.3 and bigger that I wasn't able to develop a handload that wasn't MOA or smaller. It had a shot out barrel.

Your second and most important is a 1 1/2 in group suitable for croc. My response will be the same as I gave my buddy who wounded and lost a croc to a 1 1/2 moa rifle. HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Croc has to be the most accurate demanding shot in africa. The brain is just a inch in diameter shot. So say your 1 1/2 moa rifle is aimed exactly at the center of the brain, you have a 66% chance of hitting the brain with a perfect shot in that rifle. and if your aim is off by even a small amount the numbers go down rapidly. For your croc the most accurate rifle you have in 30CAL or bigger should be used and you shod practice shooting prone ALOT before you go. when you can hit a golf ball laying on the ground 10 out of 10 time at 65-85 yards. You can feel ready.

I am not trying to be harsh but to save you wounding and possibly loosing an animal.
 
No, we're only taking the 375 and the 257.

I actually like her 30-06 quite a bit, even though the stock is to short for me. The rifle is light for an 06, but it's one of the lightest kicking of that caliber I've ever shot. If we were taking it, I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a Croc. (y)
Too bad her new gun isn't going along. Nothing wrong with 257 but 30-06 is much more versatile. Of course you could always add a slipon recoil pad to temporarily lengthen LOP. And I see some real sexy leather ones up on eBay regularly.

Is 257 too light to penetrate a crocodile's skull?
 
Too bad her new gun isn't going along. Nothing wrong with 257 but 30-06 is much more versatile. Of course you could always add a slipon recoil pad to temporarily lengthen LOP. And I see some real sexy leather ones up on eBay regularly.

Is 257 too light to penetrate a crocodile's skull?
Good question. The Hammer bullets we'll be using are a solid copper 90 grain at around 3100.
 
I hold all bolt actions to the same standard regardles of caliber. I want 1 MOA or less at 100 yards...

I reload though.. so for me its really just a matter of time, trial, and error.. sooner or later I can almost always develop a powder, bullet, primer, combo that will achieve < 1MOA.. If not, the rifle finds some yonder way or gets a new barrel...

For semi autos like my AR15's and AR10's Im a little more fogiving.. typically if I can get sub 2 MOA Im happy.. 2 of my AR15's are true "precision" guns and produce well under .75 MOA with match grade ammo.. the rest are either general purpose or "hunting" builds and will almost always produce 2-3MOA with just about any factory ammo I feed them.. and if/when I build loads for them its typically not too hard to get below the 2 MOA mark..

For a croc, accuracy is everything.. youre trying to hit something the size of a walnut (less a 2" ball).. Shots shouldnt be a super long way away.. but.. youre likely not going to get "elephant" close to one either.. I think my wife shot hers at about 50 yards (started at about 35 yards.. but then the croc moved and the best we could do was I think 50-55 yards)... For me personally, I'd try to find a load (or a rifle) that you can count on sub MOA accuracy at 100 yards for a croc hunt..

Agree!
 
Use the 257 Roberts for croc.
Best croc rifle we ever had in camp was a 22-250 that would put 10 shots into a golf ball size target at 200m.
 
Like they said you really have two questions.

Acceptable accuracy in a big bore. Most big bore just plain flat shoot well and it is the shooter that is the weak link. I have only had one 9.3 and bigger that I wasn't able to develop a handload that wasn't MOA or smaller. It had a shot out barrel.

Your second and most important is a 1 1/2 in group suitable for croc. My response will be the same as I gave my buddy who wounded and lost a croc to a 1 1/2 moa rifle. HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Croc has to be the most accurate demanding shot in africa. The brain is just a inch in diameter shot. So say your 1 1/2 moa rifle is aimed exactly at the center of the brain, you have a 66% chance of hitting the brain with a perfect shot in that rifle. and if your aim is off by even a small amount the numbers go down rapidly. For your croc the most accurate rifle you have in 30CAL or bigger should be used and you shod practice shooting prone ALOT before you go. when you can hit a golf ball laying on the ground 10 out of 10 time at 65-85 yards. You can feel ready.

I am not trying to be harsh but to save you wounding and possibly loosing an animal.

The .505 Gibbs you sold me is proof of big bores can shoot well. That thing was as accurate as any small bore.

.458 WM frontal
IMG_3546.jpeg
IMG_7814.jpeg
 
If it won't shoot 1 MOA, sell it and get a decent shooting gun.
Modern new guns and customs MUST be accurate or they are boat paddles.
So, you are going for buff and want a 2 MOA gun? Nope. Will it work? It should but why not buy quality because you are spending more on your airline ticket to get to Africa than on your gun.

I spend money in the following way of thinking on guns -

1. Buy Swarovski scopes or their equal. If you cannot see it, you cannot hit it.
2. Buy the best rifle you can shoot. Know the gun inside and out. If it does not shoot well EVERY TIME - get rid of it. Do not spend all your time on handloading for a weak gun. Most any decent factory gun will shoot quality ammo. Forget PPU or off brands. Use Barnes or Federal or Norma if you like factory ammo.
3. Fly business class.
4. Go to the best area you can afford with a PH you know and can communicate with. DO NOT BUY AUCTION hunts... you get what you pay for.

5. Shoot everything you can afford. Take pictures or videos. Leave the horns and hides there if you already have some. Cost is serious. Taxidermy is serious. If you choose to bring something home, be sure of the skinners work and the hide quality.

6. If your safari company has good camp rifles, leave your at home and shoot theirs. I have done that on a dozen trips. No issues.
Everything but 3 and 6 for me. I shoot my rifles that are cut to fit me, (and I buy factory replacement stocks for most evey rifle I own) that I know like the palm of my hand. Can't afford business class, can buy a rifle for the difference and if it doesn't put 5 shots inside 1", preferably a 1/2" with my hand loads, it is sent down the road. All my practice loads are full power, makes no sence to me to practice with anything less. As far as bullets go, I have been told by people in the know, which makes sense to me, that it is much easier to make a large caliber bullet perfect than it is to make a small bullet perfect. All my big bores .458 and down just amaze me. Yes I am anal when it comes to accuracy, but I straighten pictures too. Just my MOA 2 cents worth.:) Sorry if I got off the original post a bit.

Paul
 
The initial question was accuracy standard for a big bore bolt gun, but a lot of members are talking about the necessary precision to kill a crocodile. I have no interest in hunting crocodiles, but I know hunters who have solved the problem with a 6mm caliber rifle by shooting this game in the head, in this case without the need of a big bore rifle.
 
To your question about group sizes, my .375 H&H groups 3/4” all day long and we’ve never bothered to see how much smaller we can get it. My .416 is almost as good, shooting .80” groups with 400 grain Bearclaws.
The accuracy of big bores , never ceases to amaze me.

Paul
 
Too bad her new gun isn't going along. Nothing wrong with 257 but 30-06 is much more versatile. Of course you could always add a slipon recoil pad to temporarily lengthen LOP. And I see some real sexy leather ones up on eBay regularly.

Is 257 too light to penetrate a crocodile's skull?
I think I’m tired ( couldn’t sleep last night), but for some strange reason when you wrote "sexy leather ones on eBay" my slightly warped brain imaged him in a leather boots, skirt and jacket with tinktink's rifle stalking crocodiles , in my defence I had been reading a book set during ww2 and the female SS officer dressed like that…..
I might try and have a little nana nap in a while…..
Gumpy
 
Big bore rifles shoot as accurately as any other rifles, as far as the shooters can handle it.
Agreed, and if he can't handle the recoil or learn how to, he should stept down to one he can. Once you develope a flinch or start picking your headup from the stock when you pull the trigger , it's hard to get rid of. Just my experience. Take it with a grain of salt. Like my wife says, I don't know nothing. :)

Paul
 
Agreed, and if he can't handle the recoil or learn how to, he should stept down to one he can. Once you develope a flinch or start picking your headup from the stock when you pull the trigger , it's hard to get rid of. Just my experience. Take it with a grain of salt. Like my wife says, I don't know nothing. :)

Paul

Mastering big bore rifles requires first the will to do it and then a lot of training. However, if you become initially in your youth familiar with rifle of bigger calibers, things become much easier later. My father always said that rifles have always a recoil, and that a rifle caliber 8x57IS is the standard one had to master at the beginning.
 

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