What is your accuracy standard for a Big Bore bolt gun?

[grand veneur]

You might have missed the details of my post, I did a 5 shot group, 1 shot/day for 5 days.

AJ

I don't missed the details, we are unfortunately not on the original topic, otherwise I would write something more about the problem that can arise after 5 shot group, 1 shot/day for 5 days. Furthermore, the discussion is primarily about big bore rifles that are not designed for maximum accuracy at longer distances.

 

[dgr416]

In my 416 rem mags its 1.5 inch at 100 yards .In my 338-378 its 3/4;inch or less at 100 my 338 win mags the same .I have not found a super accurate load in my 416 rem mags yet just 1.5 inch with all reloads and factory ammo .It might be that I am using r15 in all my loads .The 1.5 inch in 416 is easy for moose or bears out to 300 yards with plenty room to spare .THE 338-378 weatherby accumark has shot 1.5 inches at 300 so its good to 600 yards my limit with 250 gr partitions .

 

[DLSJR]

This past weekend @tinktink12 and I went to our favorite range to sight in her new Savage Custom Shop Lady Hunter 30-06, and tune some other rifles for upcoming hunts.

Her first rifle on the bench was the 257 Roberts using the Hammer Fur Hunter bullets. Groups were all under .75 inches. Let's hope they do the job on our upcoming Klipspringer hunt.

Her new 30-06 rifle decided it did NOT like the factory Barnes 150gn X, delivering groups of around 1.5-2 inches. Switching to the Barnes factory 168gn cut groups to between.5 and .75 inches. Since the 168 is our chosen bullet and ammo for this rifle, we thought why bother testing anything else. This will be her rifle and load for cow Elk and similar sized game.

Moving on to bigger calibers my CZ550 in 375 H&H was next. I had some PPU blue box 300 grain and figured it would shoot to a similar point of aim as the Barnes X. Instead the first shot from a sandbag rest went 5 inches high and an inch right. Oh well, let's try again. Second shot went 6 inches low and 2 inches left. The remaining rounds did about the same.

Checked scope, bedding screws, operator headspace, etc. and no problems. With factory Barnes 300gn X bullets, this rifle does 1.5-2 inches. With Remington factory 300gn AFrames, groups are similar to the Barnes, but slightly different poi.

I plan to use this rifle for Croc on an upcoming hunt. If it does 1.5 inches with the Barnes X or Swift AFrames, am I still in the Ballpark, or should I try to get something more accurate?

I have other big bore rifles that group close to an inch or less, but shooting that PPU is messing with my head.

You absolutely want a very accurate rifle for your croc, but you don’t need a medium or heavy rifle. A croc’s brain is very small, the target is about golf ball sized. You’d be far better off shooting a 30-06 or 300 with a 200 grain bullet that you KNOW will be right where it needs to be than a bigger gun you hope hits that little target. A 200 grain .30 caliber bullet in the brain or neck/spine is far better than a 300 grain .375 that just misses those targets.

To your question about group sizes, my .375 H&H groups 3/4” all day long and we’ve never bothered to see how much smaller we can get it. My .416 is almost as good, shooting .80” groups with 400 grain Bearclaws.

 

[Certus]

This past weekend @tinktink12 and I went to our favorite range to sight in her new Savage Custom Shop Lady Hunter 30-06, and tune some other rifles for upcoming hunts.

Her first rifle on the bench was the 257 Roberts using the Hammer Fur Hunter bullets. Groups were all under .75 inches. Let's hope they do the job on our upcoming Klipspringer hunt.

Her new 30-06 rifle decided it did NOT like the factory Barnes 150gn X, delivering groups of around 1.5-2 inches. Switching to the Barnes factory 168gn cut groups to between.5 and .75 inches. Since the 168 is our chosen bullet and ammo for this rifle, we thought why bother testing anything else. This will be her rifle and load for cow Elk and similar sized game.

Moving on to bigger calibers my CZ550 in 375 H&H was next. I had some PPU blue box 300 grain and figured it would shoot to a similar point of aim as the Barnes X. Instead the first shot from a sandbag rest went 5 inches high and an inch right. Oh well, let's try again. Second shot went 6 inches low and 2 inches left. The remaining rounds did about the same.

Checked scope, bedding screws, operator headspace, etc. and no problems. With factory Barnes 300gn X bullets, this rifle does 1.5-2 inches. With Remington factory 300gn AFrames, groups are similar to the Barnes, but slightly different poi.

I plan to use this rifle for Croc on an upcoming hunt. If it does 1.5 inches with the Barnes X or Swift AFrames, am I still in the Ballpark, or should I try to get something more accurate?

I have other big bore rifles that group close to an inch or less, but shooting that PPU is messing with my head.

Can you tell me more about this Lady Hunter?
We just bought one from Gunbroker in 243 for my wife. Getting sent over here to Aus.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Just me....

Unrealistically, I want 10 shots in one hole on target, the X, at 100, 200 yards.

Realistically, I want 10 shots in a 1 to 1-1/4 inch group at 100, 200 yards.

I attribute all shots outside/ off the X by a 1/2 inch to shooter error with my reloads or using factory ammo.

I'm not a precision shooter, but I do want precision bullet placement on my target.

Whether .22 cal or .458WM cal I strive for precision shots. Especially when hunting. I want greater than 50% [bullet diameter] of my bullet impact to be inside the X ring. Aim small, Miss small. Typical game animals have a 10 inch heart and lungs kill zone. Croc and gators on the other hand have a very small ~1-1/4 inch kill zone, brain shot.

A bigger bullet [diameter] just means you have a better chance of the bullet impacting within a greater than 50% [bullet diameter] in the kill zone if one's aim is a bit off center of the proverbial X.

To each their own as to what is significant accuracy...less than 1 inch or 8 inches.

 

[mark-hunter]

Moving on to bigger calibers my CZ550 in 375 H&H was next. I had some PPU blue box 300 grain and figured it would shoot to a similar point of aim as the Barnes X. Instead the first shot from a sandbag rest went 5 inches high and an inch right. Oh well, let's try again. Second shot went 6 inches low and 2 inches left. The remaining rounds did about the same.

Checked scope, bedding screws, operator headspace, etc. and no problems. With factory Barnes 300gn X bullets, this rifle does 1.5-2 inches. With Remington factory 300gn AFrames, groups are similar to the Barnes, but slightly different poi.

My ZKK 602 in 375 H&H shoots 1.5 moa. Including PPU soft points of 300 grains.
But POI is variable depending of ammo used (Norma, PPU, RWS, etc)
With 1.5 MOA, I consider rifle acceptable for DG hunting, including aquatics which require accurate brain shot.

Double rifles in general have lower accuracy standard, still acceptable for most DG hunting applications.

On older models of hunting bolt action rifles, 30 years ago and earlier, the standard was 2 MOA, and they were very usable. In those times, barrels were not free floating.
The appearance of free floating barrel made 1 MOA standard fashionable, but it is not critical for hunting.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I don't hunt crocodile but have seen a few videos. It seems this is not game that requires a big bore rifle. Looks to me like a thumper gun could actually be a disadvantage. Most crocs are shot from a blind over bait. This would be akin to shooting from the bench. I have shot my 404 from the bench a few times ... no more! Or one might stalk them which often leads to shooting prone to minimize profile. Shooting a big bore from prone position could be dangerous ... for the shooter.

 

[grand veneur]

It is sure that shooting from a prone position with a big bore rifle can be problematic. Nevertheless, shooting positions must be considered that allow longer shots with big bore rifles when needed. The idea that heavy dangerous game is always shot within 50 yards is very theoretical. I have shot buffalo over 100 yards in very open areas. I don't think shooting with sticks is always the best option for longer range shots, for some shooters certainly not. I also prefer more stable rests. Unfortunately, that is not always possible in the African bush because suitable trees, rocks or various other elevations are there very rare. Nevertheless, accurate shooting with big bore rifles should also be practiced from a bench in various position, except surely the prone one.

 

[Miletic]

It is no problem for the PPU to make a 1moa group at 100m. That ammo box is probably the problem

 

[uplander01]

Shooting from a bench only tells you what the gun is capable of in the best of circumstances. if it doesn’t shoot consistently from the bench or maybe a better word is predictably, you got problems. Shoot a 10 shot composite group and see what happens, vary time between shots,…your rifle may not be as accurate as you think. If I can shoot a 2” -2.5” or so 10 shot group off sticks at 100 yards with random time between shots, letting it get cool at least a couple times I consider it ready to go, regardless of caliber. I also pay attention to the poi every time with the first couple shots from a cold bore and overlay the targets from previous practice sessions to verify consistency of initial cold bore shots and that nothing is randomly changing.

One hole bench rest groups are great, but they really don’t tell the hunter what he needs to know.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

This past weekend @tinktink12 and I went to our favorite range to sight in her new Savage Custom Shop Lady Hunter 30-06, and tune some other rifles for upcoming hunts.

Her first rifle on the bench was the 257 Roberts using the Hammer Fur Hunter bullets. Groups were all under .75 inches. Let's hope they do the job on our upcoming Klipspringer hunt.

Her new 30-06 rifle decided it did NOT like the factory Barnes 150gn X, delivering groups of around 1.5-2 inches. Switching to the Barnes factory 168gn cut groups to between.5 and .75 inches. Since the 168 is our chosen bullet and ammo for this rifle, we thought why bother testing anything else. This will be her rifle and load for cow Elk and similar sized game.

Moving on to bigger calibers my CZ550 in 375 H&H was next. I had some PPU blue box 300 grain and figured it would shoot to a similar point of aim as the Barnes X. Instead the first shot from a sandbag rest went 5 inches high and an inch right. Oh well, let's try again. Second shot went 6 inches low and 2 inches left. The remaining rounds did about the same.

Checked scope, bedding screws, operator headspace, etc. and no problems. With factory Barnes 300gn X bullets, this rifle does 1.5-2 inches. With Remington factory 300gn AFrames, groups are similar to the Barnes, but slightly different poi.

I plan to use this rifle for Croc on an upcoming hunt. If it does 1.5 inches with the Barnes X or Swift AFrames, am I still in the Ballpark, or should I try to get something more accurate?

I have other big bore rifles that group close to an inch or less, but shooting that PPU is messing with my head.

hi sir
for a croc you definately need accuracy on your first shot
u need to anchor that lizard where he is
so my personal opinion is double check that gun again, mounts, bases, rings, scope, etc, check the barrel is not touching the stock somewhere (changes in weather cause the stock to swell etc) this is a common problem on CZ. then give gun a good clean and head back to the range, if results are the same or similar then you know thats how the gun shoots. and im not sure i would be happy to take a croc with it
you really can shoot a croc with a .30 cal rifle with barnes bullets no problem, i myself have done it and had clients do it numerous tiles. u actually do not want a fast expanding (thumper) as someone mentioned as they tend to blow the lid off your trophy...literally blow the top of skull off. and depending on the angle of your shot you want a decently constructed bullet to reach that small target

best regards

stu

 

[Roan]

This is my FN in 458 win mag
Shooting 400gr Peregrine bushmaster at 100m
I think this is more than accurate enough for any DG

 

[skydiver386]

I should mention that I'm also hunting Buffalo, and wanted to take only one rifle on this trip. The 375 isn't needed for croc, but if I'm only taking one rifle for both, it's probably the best option. Tina will be taking her 257 Roberts and we'll both use that for the Tiny Ten and any night critters.

Stu has probably given some of the best advice so far. I need to look at bedding screws, scope and mounting screws, action bedding and possible stock/barrel contact, etc. I'll take another trip to the range this weekend and try some of the other brands of ammo and see what happens.

I never considered making up loads for this rifle because the factory Barnes always shot right around an inch. The Barnes Loading manual lists Win 748, RL15, Varget and several IMR powders. If everything else mentioned above doesn't fix it, going to the reloading bench may be needed.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

My .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Remington Model 700 Kevlar Stock Custom shoots MOA with the 300Gr Nosler AccuBond factory load. Accuracy can hardly be improved upon. I always opt for the traditional 300Gr bullet and have the rifle zeroed in for it’s maximum point blank range.

I would personally stay away from Prvi Partizan .375 Holland & Holland Magnum ammunition. It nearly got me killed during an elephant hunt in 2006. In my 52 years (and counting) of going on African Safaris and hunting dangerous game, that’s the only time I ever needed my white hunter to step in and save my life.

 

[skydiver386]

My .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Remington Model 700 Kevlar Stock Custom shoots MOA with the 300Gr Nosler AccuBond factory load. Accuracy can hardly be improved upon. I always opt for the traditional 300Gr bullet and have the rifle zeroed in for it’s maximum point blank range.

I would personally stay away from Prvi Partizan .375 Holland & Holland Magnum ammunition. It nearly got me killed during an elephant hunt in 2006. In my 52 years (and counting) of going on African Safaris and hunting dangerous game, that’s the only time I ever needed my white hunter to step in and save my life.

I agree, the PPU is not on the same level as most other brands. Unfortunately here in the U.S., it's difficult to find ammunition in anything over 35 caliber, especially metric calibers. S&B and PPU are often all that's available.

I think the box of PPU 375 H&H in question cost me less than $35, and I'm beginning to think I got what I paid for.

 

[Beck]

This past weekend @tinktink12 and I went to our favorite range to sight in her new Savage Custom Shop Lady Hunter 30-06, and tune some other rifles for upcoming hunts.

Her first rifle on the bench was the 257 Roberts using the Hammer Fur Hunter bullets. Groups were all under .75 inches. Let's hope they do the job on our upcoming Klipspringer hunt.

Her new 30-06 rifle decided it did NOT like the factory Barnes 150gn X, delivering groups of around 1.5-2 inches. Switching to the Barnes factory 168gn cut groups to between.5 and .75 inches. Since the 168 is our chosen bullet and ammo for this rifle, we thought why bother testing anything else. This will be her rifle and load for cow Elk and similar sized game.

Moving on to bigger calibers my CZ550 in 375 H&H was next. I had some PPU blue box 300 grain and figured it would shoot to a similar point of aim as the Barnes X. Instead the first shot from a sandbag rest went 5 inches high and an inch right. Oh well, let's try again. Second shot went 6 inches low and 2 inches left. The remaining rounds did about the same.

Checked scope, bedding screws, operator headspace, etc. and no problems. With factory Barnes 300gn X bullets, this rifle does 1.5-2 inches. With Remington factory 300gn AFrames, groups are similar to the Barnes, but slightly different poi.

I plan to use this rifle for Croc on an upcoming hunt. If it does 1.5 inches with the Barnes X or Swift AFrames, am I still in the Ballpark, or should I try to get something more accurate?

I have other big bore rifles that group close to an inch or less, but shooting that PPU is messing with my head.

I've never hunted croc, but it is on my list. As I understand the shot placement needs, I think anything over 1" MOA would be unacceptable. I think you could get away with something worse on Buffalo. The least accurate rifle I have taken over there was my Ruger Hawkeye in .416 Ruger, but it did just fine on buffalo/hippo. The shot on the hippo did require quite a bit of precision too. I've taken several Sako's over there, and they all shoot under 1" - say what you want about Sako's, they just shoot. I haven't taken a CZ over there yet, but I plan to take my CZ-550 in .458 lott to Moz to chase after buffalo at some point.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

I agree, the PPU is not on the same level as most other brands. Unfortunately here in the U.S., it's difficult to find ammunition in anything over 35 caliber, especially metric calibers. S&B and PPU are often all that's available.

I think the box of PPU 375 H&H in question cost me less than $35, and I'm beginning to think I got what I paid for.

But about the American brands ? Hornady, Federal, Nosler, Barnes ?

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

I should mention that I'm also hunting Buffalo, and wanted to take only one rifle on this trip. The 375 isn't needed for croc, but if I'm only taking one rifle for both, it's probably the best option. Tina will be taking her 257 Roberts and we'll both use that for the Tiny Ten and any night critters.

Stu has probably given some of the best advice so far. I need to look at bedding screws, scope and mounting screws, action bedding and possible stock/barrel contact, etc. I'll take another trip to the range this weekend and try some of the other brands of ammo and see what happens.

I never considered making up loads for this rifle because the factory Barnes always shot right around an inch. The Barnes Loading manual lists Win 748, RL15, Varget and several IMR powders. If everything else mentioned above doesn't fix it, going to the reloading bench may be needed.

I didn’t know y doing buff as well
And on top of it u not doing this hunt with me !! Jokes
Take a piece of paper and slide it between the barrel and stick it should move easily from end of stock down close to action so u can see if barrel is free

Common culprit is somewhere around the carry strap fitting screws to stock

Regards

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

Yes u want one gun for that hunt

 

[C.W. Richter]

Not all guns (chambers/throats, etc.) are going to perform similarly. That said, handloading will produce the most accurate loads for a particular rifle. 'Gave the .375 to my son...it shoots 10 shots of most everything within 1.5" (and that includes pairs of SPs and Solids.) I must note that he upgraded from a 1-5x to a 2-7x and the groups tightened up a bit! (both Leupold) The (more customized, better scope) .416 shoots 0.5" with 400 gr Nos PTs, however, as that's not recommended for most DG the Swift SPs/Barnes Banded Solids both print similar 1" groups (@ 100 yds) with Varget at 2,450/2,460 fps. PPU is just shy of bottom-barrel. I use it in .22-250 for short shots on varmints, as not to waste my pet handloads that'll do same out beyond 400 yds, and I've used 'em in Improved rifles for fireforming brass (as the ammo was <$10/box.) That said, the PPU brass often needs the primer pockets reamed prior to reloading. Have you tried Premium ammunition in your bigger bore gun(s)? It can perform well. That said, COAL is the biggest factor in accuracy, and in many cases (excuse the pun), you're stuck with a SAAMI dimension in lieu of seating the bullet farther out (or at least as far as the mag will allow in a bolt.) GL Enjoy! PPU made me laugh-i still have a box ready on a little shelf by the door...