Politics

"...and you do not give a shit about the world outside the US.."

That's what Dave has been telling you for like 30 pages.

Pondoro said:

You have no idea how to open the Hormuz like your government...and you do not give a shit about the world outside the US..

Oil tankers came and went just fine through the straights until Trump started bombing Iran..

The fuel shortage will get worse..until the 20% missing is restored..

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What about the nukes, missiles and proxies eh?

KJE81 said:

I really think you are just banging your head against a brick wall, its pointless to write anti-Trump posts here...as long as Trump says everything that happens is moving along according to his magnificent 4D-chess plan the Maga-crew is going to think the same regardless what is actually happening

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I’m not MAGA but good try.

Scott CWO said:

I’m not MAGA but good try.

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It was not directed at you specifically, it was more ment as a suggestion for Pondoro that it really is rather pointless to post here trying to convince those that allready made up their minds, thats why I quoted his post rather then yours.

It seems that we are seeing the beginning of the end of Nato...wonder how long it will take until the US formally leaves?






Even Rubio seems to think that Nato does not do anything for the US unless the other members are acting more like vassals to their liege lord and simply comply with every demand regardless of international law...


The same source also seems to suggest that the legislation set in place by congress after Trumps first term are not in any way Trump proof.


Personally I think that the idea of Natos one for all, all for one-deterrent is allready broken by all statements of Trump that he will not assist countries not paying their bill or not joining in the Iran war or not letting the US annex Greenland etc...taken together it really presents a strong case for potential advesaries to make the conclusion that the US will not honor the treaty if push comes to shove. So perhaps it would be for the best if he simply withdraw the US from the alliance like he seems to want to do and just leave the other allies to fend for themselves without creating this strategic ambiguity of wether the US would honor the alliance or not...

Perhaps our European members should read this article.

KJE81 said:

It seems that we are seeing the beginning of the end of Nato...wonder how long it will take until the US formally leaves?

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End of NATO? Perhaps but probably not. This is just a wake up call for those desiring a one-way relationahip with their rich Uncle Sam!

As I read the online new news this morning and scrolled through Facebook I found a string of very short videos concerning the above,

Secretary of State Rubio speaking of USA-NATO relationship is clear terms,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18P4uuG6GF/

Rubio, be a partner with Europe and NATO allies,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/17aSatbymM/

Note Europe’s war, Not USA’s war,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18GJNZB6zg/

NATO a paper tiger,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18eEJKukZf/

UAE, Real alliances built on cooperation and contribution, not dependency,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1BA9cubYqR/

Here is the Wall Street Journal article on UAE supporting the USA and Israel’s use of force on Iran,
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...b?st=hBTEuF&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Iranians protesting for USA and Israel,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1DHeHKEx1a/

Discussing a politician who follow through on his promises,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1KiuGyzSyE/

More Trumpisms… “They have been beat to shit”,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1HfB2tQK7f/

“They are toast, and they know it”,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18Gstc23Kt/

“If I was good to you in some way and you took advantage of it…”
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1Kra9dV9Gx/

For all our European friends who know about the USA,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1ENBygYNQs/

Here’s a couple quotes on Comfort or Truth,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1754x4TxBk/

Mark A Ouellette said:

End of NATO? Perhaps but probably not. This is just a wake up call for those desiring a one-way relationahip with their rich Uncle Sam!

As I read the online new news this morning and scrolled through Facebook I found a string of very short videos concerning the above,

Secretary of State Rubio speaking of USA-NATO relationship is clear terms,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18P4uuG6GF/

Rubio, be a partner with Europe and NATO allies,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/17aSatbymM/

Note Europe’s war, Not USA’s war,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18GJNZB6zg/

NATO a paper tiger,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18eEJKukZf/

UAE, Real alliances built on cooperation and contribution, not dependency,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1BA9cubYqR/

Here is the Wall Street Journal article on UAE supporting the USA and Israel’s use of force on Iran,
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-ea...b?st=hBTEuF&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Iranians protesting for USA and Israel,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1DHeHKEx1a/

Discussing a politician who follow through on his promises,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1KiuGyzSyE/

More Trumpisms… “They have been beat to shit”,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1HfB2tQK7f/

“They are toast, and they know it”,
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18Gstc23Kt/

“If I was good to you in some way and you took advantage of it…”
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1Kra9dV9Gx/

For all our European friends who know about the USA,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1ENBygYNQs/

Here’s a couple quotes on Comfort or Truth,
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1754x4TxBk/

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I guess we will see what happens in the future, anyway this article of a very recent interview with Trump does seems to suggest that he is seriously considering it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-strongly-considering-pulling-us-out-of-nato/

KJE81 said:

I guess we will see what happens in the future, anyway this article of a very recent interview with Trump does seems to suggest that he is seriously considering it: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-n...-strongly-considering-pulling-us-out-of-nato/

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As stated several times before by others, USA doesn’t have to leave NATO; all the USA has to do is not participate.

So if the USA doesn’t participate NATO will fall apart because NATO has actually been the USA’s burden for decades.

Trump started out goading NATO members into coughing up 2% then 5% and at first I think his threats to leave NATO were merely to get those members to pay more.

Now I believe he does actually want to withdraw.

Most of MAGA 100% agrees with NATO members paying their share. But he will lose a lot of support if he tries to completely withdraw. Me included

NATO was there for us when we were attacked on 9-11

NATO should want a Nuke free Iran. But it’s understandable why with zero prep and notice they wouldn’t send unprepared ships and troops into battle in Iran. (And of course we couldn’t broadcast the attack across Europe for security reasons).

NATO Members should cough up more and spend more on their defense, but the U.S. is much stronger with NATO members along side.

Despite Trump‘s hyperbole, Europe has some very formidable military units.

In the future when we’re dealing with North Korea, China, or who knows who, or what new axis is formed. We will need NATO members.

Now add in the trust factor and this type of doubt and mistrust speeds up countries making side trade deals and using different currencies. This is exactly how every previous Reserve Currency was replaced.

Rome, Spain, France, Dutch, British at the end of their reign of the globe as a last ditch effort, tried bullying and military strength to keep the minions in line. That sped up the decline and replacement.

Our enemies are sidling up to our current partners, whispering in their ears, saying we would never treat you like that. come over with us. use our currency. we will build infrastructure in your country.

Short term feel good rhetoric creates long term decline.

steve white said:

How about NO MORE PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARIES! They are over rated, and too expensive for the general public to enjoy, especially with families. The Geo. Bush library in Dallas operates at a loss I am sure, despite costing a fortune to visit. Maybe they would get more business if they cut the price of admission. How many of such libraries do we need, anyway?

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I have visited and enjoyed the Nixon and Reagan libraries multiple times. If you think they are expensive, try Disneyland.

Altitude sickness said:

Trump started out goading NATO members into coughing up 2% then 5% and at first I think his threats to leave NATO were merely to get those members to pay more.

Now I believe he does actually want to withdraw.

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A good article on why we need NATO and bases in Europe.

NATO was created by the US because it was in the US critical national interests to do so following the Second World War and recognition of the abiding threat posed by the Soviet Union. I have no doubt that the typical MAGA neo-isolationist would not have understood that reasoning any better then than he does now.

The Russians have changed their name, but their arsenal and ambitions of empire remain - weapons and ambitions that remain a threat to our national interests.

NATO's very success created the foundation for the current criticism. After all, until the Russian invasion of Ukraine, Europe - and at least on the European continent with respect to the US - had experienced its longest period of peace and prosperity in nearly two centuries. Defense investments, both here and across Europe were cut. Superb military establishments, like that of West Germany's prior to reunification or Great Britain at the time of the Falklands campaign, were allowed to deteriorate into shells of their former capabilities as resources were redirected to social programs and novelties like green initiatives.

It is hardly surprising that following decades of its own poorly managed social and energy initiatives that a US administration would eventually conclude that mutual defense should include more robust contributions by its member states. That new paradigm was reinforced for most Europeans by Putin's invasion of Ukraine and a the resulting seemingly endless brutal war. The invasion also undermined what was clearly an second term Trump desire to more normalize American relations with Russia.

That political brew of suddenly conflicting interests has put great strains on the old alliance. New challenges have emerged like the conflict with Iran, where the US - I think correctly - is addressing a growing threat to collective Western interests. Meanwhile, most of Europe, Democrats, and Neo-isolationists attempt to at least publicly sit on the sidelines whining and pearl clutching because fuel prices, the next election, party loyalty, or naive ignorance are always more compelling than long term strategic purpose.

I would simply suggest that the shared interests that nurtured the creation of NATO following the war in the first place are still very much alive today. I suspect those compelling interests are strong enough to survive the current crisis.

Fktard starmer has never been for the British people or their interests....useless piece of shit

Russ16 said:

Has there ever been serious discussion of a canal to bypass the strait of Hormuz? It would till be reachable by longer range weapons but might belief easily defended. I’m sure smarter minds have thought about it, I would be interested to know what the discussion has been like.

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I think the mountains in Oman would make a relatively short (but still pretty long) canal difficult and very expensive. A major pipeline would likely be a better option, if a decent port existed.

Saudi has pipelines that run west to the Red Sea, however ships have to deal with the Houthi threat around Yemen if they need to go south. Going north through the Suez canal, a 2 million barrel VLCC super tanker draws too much water and has to offload part of its cargo and then reload it once through the canal. Time and money associated with that operation.

375 Ruger Fan said:

I think the mountains in Oman would make a relatively short (but still pretty long) canal difficult and very expensive. A major pipeline would likely be a better option, if a decent port existed.

Saudi has pipelines that run west to the Red Sea, however ships have to deal with the Houthi threat around Yemen if they need to go south. Going north through the Suez canal, a 2 million barrel VLCC super tanker draws too much water and has to offload part of its cargo and then reload it once through the canal. Time and money associated with that operation.

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I had some time last night and looked into this. Your right that the mountains present a problem, but it has been looked into and at least some preliminary work done. The estimate is $200 billion, which seems achievable in the grand scheme of things if the producing companies band together and maybe get their customers to kick in. Not a complete solution, I'm just surprised there hasn't been more discussion of it given the known vulnerability of the strait.

Pondoro said:

You have no idea how to open the Hormuz like your government...and you do not give a shit about the world outside the US..

Oil tankers came and went just fine through the straights until Trump started bombing Iran..

The fuel shortage will get worse..until the 20% missing is restored..

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You wouldn't happen to have blue hair and a nose ring?

Scott CWO said:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2026/03/31/europe-iran-war-us-israel-00852813

Perhaps our European members should read this article.

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I'm not european but it is not a well reasoned peice:

This part went totally off the rails:

If the war in Iran is not a European matter, then the war in Ukraine is not an American one.

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375 Ruger Fan said:

I think the mountains in Oman would make a relatively short (but still pretty long) canal difficult and very expensive. A major pipeline would likely be a better option, if a decent port existed.

Saudi has pipelines that run west to the Red Sea, however ships have to deal with the Houthi threat around Yemen if they need to go south. Going north through the Suez canal, a 2 million barrel VLCC super tanker draws too much water and has to offload part of its cargo and then reload it once through the canal. Time and money associated with that operation.

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Politically probably not viable and also brings other Iranian proxy threat into play... but.. if a pipeline across Saudi Arabia is possible.. but the Suez wont work for VLCC, why not just go NW with the pipeline and take it through Jordan and Israel and straight into the mederteranian sea that way?

The Saudis are now playing nice with the Israelis.. the Jordanians sorta play nice with the Israelis.. etc...

The other option would be just to route south around Israel and go through Egypt.. that just adds a few hunded miles of pipeline..

All of that said.. Im sure it would take years to build.. months to negotiate between all players.. and billions to build and maybe billions to maintain, secure, etc..