Just brain storming....450/400 for AK Brown Bear

I have a Ruger 1 in 450/40-3"NE. I have worked up loads with RL15 and Barnes 300 TSX bullet. I have not chronographed these load-yet, but 100 yard accuracy is under one inch.

I have taken one medium size Canada black bear with this combination. Side by side full penetration, including passing through one rib and heart. Entrance wound was large enough to bleed. Exit wound was much larger and drained lots of blood. Bear ran straight ahead and dropped in 20 yards.

But Black bear is a Brown bear.

Would these 300 grain bullets be adequate for Alaska Brown bear? What velocity would be optimal for AK Brown Bear with this bullet?

How could they not be?

Muskox said:

How could they not be?

Click to expand...

I don't know, I have never hunted Brown Bear, I have no experience. That's why I asked?

lots of guys have killed cape buffalo with the 300 tsx and a 450/400 or similar round so can’t imagine a brown bear walking very far with one in its chest either

Never hunted them either, but my understanding is that moderate distance might be required (up to 300 yards maybe?) Might want to check terminal ballistics for the 300 TSX and make sure you're good for adequate expansion.

While have never hunted Brown Bear I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
Th bullet is up to the task. You really need to chrono your rounds.
Your minimum opening velocity is at around 1800 fps for a TSX.
The Ruger No.1 as you most likely know can be pushed hotter if needed.
Keep your maximum distance inline with minimum velocity and you should not have a problem with proper shot placement.

“Elmer Keith was a legendary figure in handgun hunting and cartridge development, known for his preference for powerful, reliable big-bore handguns. While he is most famously associated with the .44 Magnum, .41 Magnum, and .45 Colt, there is no evidence that he specifically advocated for the .450/400 (also known as the .450 Nitro Express or .450/400) for hunting brown bears in alder forests.”

Shot a Russian brown bear with a 338 federal, not advised. Shot several big black bears with a 308 win and no problems. Like many said the range would be the issue. I did not know that the 450-400 was also AKA 450 NE.

V.Veritas said:

“Elmer Keith was a legendary figure in handgun hunting and cartridge development, known for his preference for powerful, reliable big-bore handguns. While he is most famously associated with the .44 Magnum, .41 Magnum, and .45 Colt, there is no evidence that he specifically advocated for the .450/400 (also known as the .450 Nitro Express or .450/400) for hunting brown bears in alder forests.”

Click to expand...

Agreed, Elmer Keith favored a large caliber English double for hunting big brownies in the Alaskan alders well before he went to Africa (used English doubles were relatively cheap then).

To the OP:

I’ve only hunted grizzly/brown bear once back in 2004, successfully taking an 8ft, 800 lb estimated weight grizzly. Hunted just outside of Denali about 200 miles north of Anchorage, B&C considers them brown bear and SCI considered them grizzly. Same species anyways. We hunted the Chulitna River during the king salmon run, where ranges would be close but the salmon run had ended and the bears transitioned up to the hills to feed on berries. I ended up shooting my grizzly at 200 yards.

While your Ruger No.1 450/400 will work, I think it less than ideal for an expensive brown bear hunt. Mine was quick to knockdown but needed two more rapid follow up shots as it was headed for thick cover. I was using a Winchester stainless Classic all terrain 300 win mag with factory 200 grain TBBC.

While I believe most brown bear guides probably want to get within 100 yards, the possibility of a longer shot could happen and more importantly you need to continue to put rounds into that bear if it’s still moving and odds are it will be near thick cover. Even if you are relatively quick to reload with your No.1, a good bolt action shooter will be much quicker. Are you okay with your guide putting in follow up shots? A good scoped bolt action 338 win mag or 375 would be a better choice IMO.

V.Veritas said:

“Elmer Keith was a legendary figure in handgun hunting and cartridge development, known for his preference for powerful, reliable big-bore handguns. While he is most famously associated with the .44 Magnum, .41 Magnum, and .45 Colt, there is no evidence that he specifically advocated for the .450/400 (also known as the .450 Nitro Express or .450/400) for hunting brown bears in alder forests.”

Click to expand...

The 450 NE is a different cartridge than the 450-400 NE
The 450-400 NE has three lengths the 2 3/8, 3” and 3 1/4 lengths.
Most common these days is 450-400 3”.
The 450-400 uses a .411 dia. bullet.
The 450 NE uses a .458 dia. bullet.

Bandera said:

The 450 NE is a different cartridge than the 450-400 NE
The 450-400 NE has three lengths the 2 3/8, 3” and 3 1/4 lengths.
Most common these days is 450-400 3”.
The 450-400 uses a .411 dia. bullet.
The 450 NE uses a .458 dia. bullet.

Click to expand...

Agreed.
The most common modern 450/400 uses a .410” bullet as initiated by Ruger & Hornady when Ruger reintroduced the Ruger No.1 in 450/400 3” NE.

During the Klondike rush, and the Northwest territories expeditions the .45-70 was widely used and bears were killed with no issues, along with Moose. Your 450 will have ample power.
Shoot Well.

I don't think the cartridge will be an issue, it's the platform you are choosing. Make sure you discuss your intentions to use a single shot with your outfitter so they can plan accordingly.

If you are confident and accurate with the rifle, I see no reason it couldn't be used as long as your guide is in agreement.

I also might ad, Roy R. Lindsley harvested a world-record Alaska brown bear on Kodiak Island in 1952, using a .30-06 and Winchester Power Point cartridges!

Hififile324 said:

I also might ad, Roy R. Lindsley harvested a world-record Alaska brown bear on Kodiak Island in 1952, using a .30-06 and Winchester Power Point cartridges!

Click to expand...

My alaskan guide, old time sourdough George Faerber who’s hunted Alaska for over 50 years was fine with a 30-06 as a minimum for grizzly/brown bear as long as good 180 grain or heavier bullets like SAF and TBBC were used. Master Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker is also fine with the 30-06 as a minimum with good bullets.

I knew a hunter who killed a 10 ft Kodiak brown bear with a 270, took multiple shots though. Shot placement and a good bullet are the most important thing but I think you can’t beat a good bolt action 338 win mag with premium 225 grain or 250 grain bullets.

To the OP, I think using a Ruger No.1, you are handicapping yourself a bit.

Maybe @Scott CWO can weigh in since he’s an experienced Alaskan brown bear guide.

BJH65 said:

Agreed, Elmer Keith favored a large caliber English double for hunting big brownies in the Alaskan alders well before he went to Africa (used English doubles were relatively cheap then).

To the OP:

I’ve only hunted grizzly/brown bear once back in 2004, successfully taking an 8ft, 800 lb estimated weight grizzly. Hunted just outside of Denali about 200 miles north of Anchorage, B&C considers them brown bear and SCI considered them grizzly. Same species anyways. We hunted the Chulitna River during the king salmon run, where ranges would be close but the salmon run had ended and the bears transitioned up to the hills to feed on berries. I ended up shooting my grizzly at 200 yards.

While your Ruger No.1 450/400 will work, I think it less than ideal for an expensive brown bear hunt. Mine was quick to knockdown but needed two more rapid follow up shots as it was headed for thick cover. I was using a Winchester stainless Classic all terrain 300 win mag with factory 200 grain TBBC.

While I believe most brown bear guides probably want to get within 100 yards, the possibility of a longer shot could happen and more importantly you need to continue to put rounds into that bear if it’s still moving and odds are it will be near thick cover. Even if you are relatively quick to reload with your No.1, a good bolt action shooter will be much quicker. Are you okay with your guide putting in follow up shots? A good scoped bolt action 338 win mag or 375 would be a better choice IMO.

View attachment 745993

Click to expand...

Excellent! If you don’t mind sharing, who did you hunt with? My neighbor (when I lived in Cantwell) was a big game hunting guide in the 80s and 90s. He used a .338 Winchester Magnum for grizzly and a 7mm Remington Magnum for everything else, if I recall correctly. His client success rates were consistently around 75% on grizzly and around 90% on everything else. Those were the days!

RedTag said:

Excellent! If you don’t mind sharing, who did you hunt with? My neighbor (when I lived in Cantwell) was a big game hunting guide in the 80s and 90s. He used a .338 Winchester Magnum for grizzly and a 7mm Remington Magnum for everything else, if I recall correctly. His client success rates were consistently around 75% on grizzly and around 90% on everything else. Those were the days!

Click to expand...

Alaskan guide George Faerber from Trapper Creek, Alaska. He started guiding in the early 70’s, guided Ted Nugent in the late 70’s. We hunted not far from Cantwell in August 2004. George was semi retired then just doing black bear hunts over bait and then grizzly hunts in GMU 13 forget the letter, when grizzly hunting was allowed year round. We were prepared for lots of rain but was a drought that year, not one day of rain on our 8 day hunt!

The old rule on griz is hit em twice and be ready to shoot some more. I agree with this rule and actually had to shoot my griz twice to settle things. I used a 416 rem mag bolt with 400gr woodleigh hydros at 105 yards. its rare to salt of those brutes on one shot. If you are hunting with a guide (required as a nonresident) they will be following up with a shot right away if the griz doesnt drop on the spot (which is rare.)

the caliber is fine, the single shot is the challenging part.

my humble 2 cents as always

I don't think the single shot is a challenge if you practice. Work to place 3 practiced shots off hand on a 20 yard target, then work on your proficiency. Same as anything else.

Also know how it shoots at 200, and at 300 if you have a long wounding situation.

Fine hammer, but you have to practice. Same as any other rifle.

there are dudes that kill them with sharpened sticks. by comparison your rifle is a howitzer.

TheDoubleD said:

I have a Ruger 1 in 450/40-3"NE. I have worked up loads with RL15 and Barnes 300 TSX bullet. I have not chronographed these load-yet, but 100 yard accuracy is under one inch.

I have taken one medium size Canada black bear with this combination. Side by side full penetration, including passing through one rib and heart. Entrance wound was large enough to bleed. Exit wound was much larger and drained lots of blood. Bear ran straight ahead and dropped in 20 yards.

But Black bear is a Brown bear.

Would these 300 grain bullets be adequate for Alaska Brown bear? What velocity would be optimal for AK Brown Bear with this bullet?

Click to expand...

Heavens yes. My daughter killed a really nice one with a 150 grain Partition from a .308.