Long Range hunting versus bowhunting wound loss rates?

Just food for thought for a comparison-how many animals have you seen on YouTube or read about on this very forum where an animal was shot by a rifle and would have been lost were it not for the ethereal trackers and their life long experience, or the little blood tracking dogs?!
And these aren’t even long distance shots-Shot happens! Most of us have grown to an age where we are more respectful, more responsible and more skilled at our chosen craft and have equipment to match. Some maybe getting worse. . .
The guys who build long range rifles will continue to defend their business. Archery die hards will continue to defend their sport. It is up to each of us to establish our ethics and passionately defend those ethics and morals, rather than defending our choices by tearing down those of others.

Yes, this thread reminds me of the adage that, ‘those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.’ That, and we should should all work to perfect our skills at our chosen style of hunting.

The blood tracking dog thing is really great. I hunted red stags a few weeks ago here, and there were 7 stags shot out of 10 hunters (I didn't get one) and multiple guys told me their dog story, how the dog saved the hunt.

I need one.

Kind of want a German Longhair in liver color. Looks like a 80 pound Springer spaniel. Hard not to love that. Fluffy cruise missile.

Muskox said:

The blood tracking dog thing is really great. I hunted red stags a few weeks ago here, and there were 7 stags shot out of 10 hunters (I didn't get one) and multiple guys told me their dog story, how the dog saved the hunt.

I need one.

Kind of want a German Longhair in liver color. Looks like a 80 pound Springer spaniel. Hard not to love that. Fluffy cruise missile.

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Yes, it was previously illegal to do this in Alberta, but they have changed the regulations this year to allow it. Cannot actively hunt with dogs for deer etc, but can bring one in to track as needed.

I think it’s great!

In Romania one of the hunters from the Czec Republic shot a Stag, but the blood trail ended after a few hundred yards. They called it for the night and brought out a Romanian bloodhound the next morning. Found in the woods after a few hundred yards tracking. Those dogs know exactly what they are doing.

Muskox said:

Getting good data is going to be tough.

Montana adjusted an elk season for archery based on wound lost rates in a higher demand about 10 years ago. I have not done any research on it since then.

I have never lost an animal with a rifle. All of them were recovered.

I have only killed a few animals with archery equipment. I had probably whiffed 5-10 arrows before I finally connected. I recovered ll my arrows. I have a shoulder injury and am not able to hunt with a bow any more.

My last secretaries husband is a die hard bow hunter. I met him and we know one another, but he rarely talks hunting with me. He lost 3 bull elk in New Mexico in 3 consecutive years. She told me he didn't. I never asked him about it.

I am going to buy a crossbow when I get back to America to take advantage of those archery seasons that allow it. Mostly because the kids are older and I need more opportunities to get to hunt when there isn't kids sports going on. Read more about similar experiences from other hunters. They are killing my seasons.

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In North America, you’re generally required to report or “punch” your tag even if you can’t immediately recover the animal. Regulations vary by state or province, but most jurisdictions expect hunters to follow up promptly and notify the appropriate wildlife authorities if a wounded animal isn’t recovered. Leaving it unreported could be considered a violation. The idea is that the tag is a legal record of your harvest, not just a physical marker, so you still need to account for it, even if tracking the animal takes several days.

Our bow and muzzleloader clients lose more animals than any rifle hunters, including longer shots with rifles.

Philip Glass said:

I have lost an animal before but not regularly and I don't bow hunt anymore. With the record population of whitetail deer in Texas we would never "punch a tag" for something that got away. Go shoot more!

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I was going to say the same thing about South Carolina. From late September until the first of December our highways are littered with deer carcasses. The only reason SC even has a tag program is to manage OOS hunters in our very long gun season. Good shots with bows or rifles kills deer quickly. Bad shots with either don't.

wiyofa said:

In North America, you’re generally required to report or “punch” your tag even if you can’t immediately recover the animal. Regulations vary by state or province, but most jurisdictions expect hunters to follow up promptly and notify the appropriate wildlife authorities if a wounded animal isn’t recovered. Leaving it unreported could be considered a violation. The idea is that the tag is a legal record of your harvest, not just a physical marker, so you still need to account for it, even if tracking the animal takes several days.

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@wiyofa - I would guess that in the States “Requiring” reporting Wounded & Lost game….that is a Frequently Violated game law and very hard for Game Wardens to enforce. Many Outfitters have a policy that “if you draw Blood - your hunt is over” but some do Not. I hunted in Illinois 10+ years ago with a well known & well run Bow Hunting Guide Service. Several times Hunters “drew blood” but did not recover and they were allowed to continue hunting…sometimes the Guide determined the wound was “Non Fatal” and the deer would survive - which is often true but Not sure you can determine that with certainty. They ran a very By-the-Book hunt and Game Wardens visited Camp 1-2x a Season, they had a good reputation and I don’t believe they would do anything to jeopardize that. I know in NJ waterfowl hunters were suppose to include any wounded & lost birds in their “Daily bag limit “ but many did not. I don’t think that law applied to deer hunters in NJ but back then you had to physically take your deer to a State “Check in Station” so not sure how you could even do that if you wanted to?? Maybe now with OnLine check in NJ requires it…Virginia does. Either way it is difficult to enforce that law and States might factor in an “estimate” of Game animals/birds LOST to have accurate numbers and enable sound wildlife game management.

Maybe there should be a post asking how many people had ever lost an animal they shot with a rifle. . .

I don't bow hunt. Why? I have been in three elk camps with bow hunters (bow wounders) and they each wounded bulls, lost them, then pulled all of the guides to help find the wounded elk. None were ever found.

Unless you are extremely proficient and make shots inside 35 yards everytime, don't bow hunt.

I watch the TV folks bow hunt and they seem to never miss. Until I followed one into a camp in Colorado. He had the hunt just before me. He wounded two, lost them, then killed one and made a TV show about it never mentioning the lost bulls. He paid for them but it was pathetic. He was on private ranch so he could do what he did.

Totally turned me off bow hunting.

I bow hunt exclusively here in the states for hogs and whitetail. Whitetails are bad to jump a string, so I limit my range to 25 yards or so. I have lost deer when I was learning, but it’s been over 20 years or so.

The problem I have with long range rifle hunting has nothing to do with lost and injured game.

I am an avid bowhunter, as the firearm seasons here in the USA -in my opinion- is way too short. I enjoy the thrill of the chase and try to experience it as much as possible. So I bow hunt a lot. I like to believe, I am rather proficient with my bow and usually shoot on average about a 75-100 arrows a week. I also keep my shot inside 55 yds. Nevertheless, I have lost 3 deer while bowhunting. I know for sure one was a flesh wound, the arrow passing through the brisket, and the deer reappeared on my camera a week later with a healing wound. Unfortunately, I know one of the wounded deer died as I eventually found it a couple days later. I think the third one also survived.
As for cutting the tag, two of these hunts took place in an area with really high deer density, and it is also my understanding that wildlife agencies set their quotas factoring in a certain wounding rate, thus I have not cut my tags after these wounding.
And I agree with the above, my concern about long range hunting has nothing to do with wounding, it has a lot more to do with fair chase, but that is just my opinion. I think an animal has next to no chance using its instincts and superior senses to evade a hunter when the bullet is coming from more than 500 yds (I know it is arbitrary) away. Again, this is just my opinion and I do not force it on anyone or judge anyone based on it.

Scott CWO said:

Our bow and muzzleloader clients lose more animals than any rifle hunters, including longer shots with rifles.

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I believe this. Keep thinking about getting into bow hunting for the early season opportunities but the time required to be proficient and the increased risk of a wounded and non recovered animal are deterrents for me.

That said, I do support bow and muzzleloader hunting, but think the time commitment and expertise required to cleanly kill animals with a bow is similar to longer range shots with a rifle.

I grew up bow hunting and still love it today at 56 years old. This thread almost feels like an AA meeting. "Hi, My name is Jim and I have also lost a deer while bowhunting" As a short time member on this site I can see most of this style of hunting "African safaris" is tailored to rifle hunting. You can tell this simply by looking in the classifieds. I also spend some time on probably the biggest archery site "Archery Talk". There are the same countless threads on that site only in reverse. Weekly there will be conversations of guys saying "I sold all my guns after I started bowhunting". A lot of these guys are elitists' no doubt. But some just appreciate the dedication it takes to be proficient in the sport. I have seen stones thrown from both sides with valid points being made. Threads like this usually do not change minds they only spread the gap between hunters. We are just now reaching a point where the crossbow guys and compound guys are not d__k measuring on a daily basis. Next is the "air gun" era. I choose to watch my own bobber. I have seen good and bad from both weapons. It is and will always be determined by the hunter not the equipment.

I fall in the camp of not blaming the equipment but more on the hunters poor judgment/decision making and ability. If one desires to take advantage of the more generous archery hunting seasons, they should acquire a good properly fitted bow and quality archery tackle, taking lessons or learning from a pro, immerse themselves with routine practice, improving their hunting and tracking skills and making sound decisions when taking a shot, knowing you are handicapped by the very nature of archery hunting.

I’ve never known a serious bow hunter that didn’t maintain an excellent level of fitness either. I’ve not lost an animal bow hunting yet but I admit the number of game taken is small and I only take a shot if I’m 100% certain. The serious bow hunters that I learned from have wounded a small number in a lifetime of hunting. Unlike them, I still enjoy hunting with a rifle. Every serious bow hunter that I know no longer hunts with a gun. I never detected an elitist attitude, just a love of bow hunting. I think if one hunts enough, bow or rifle, it’s bound to happen eventually, wounding an animal and having one potentially get away.

Watching a magnificent 6x6 bull elk casually saunter off knowing it’s beyond my ability to make the shot, or the shot presentation and conditions aren’t there to be 100% confident of my shot takes discipline and sound judgment, knowing one’s abilities. I really enjoyed the years we lived in North Western Montana, where I really learned to archery hunt, those are some of my best hunting memories where I just enjoyed being in the forest, observing a variety of animals and the kill wasn’t so important anymore.

Every year there are hunting accidents involving firearms. There are many so called hunters that have no business with a gun or being in the woods. Again, I don’t blame the equipment, I blame the hunter and their poor decision making.

There is an ethical dilemma to it.

I don't bow hunt currently. I can see hunting with a crossbow during archery season where legal. I have a shoulder injury and I can't hold the string back, I am sure I would wound even more things. I can't see hunting during archery season unless I had to to be on a certain property. Not going to go into the weeds with it, but a lot of our military bases shut down the rifle areas for training, but the bow areas near golf courses or housing are generally open. I would do that if it impacted my hunt.

Muskox said:

There is an ethical dilemma to it.

I don't bow hunt currently. I can see hunting with a crossbow during archery season where legal. I have a shoulder injury and I can't hold the string back, I am sure I would wound even more things. I can't see hunting during archery season unless I had to to be on a certain property. Not going to go into the weeds with it, but a lot of our military bases shut down the rifle areas for training, but the bow areas near golf courses or housing are generally open. I would do that if it impacted my hunt.

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That’s a good point. With acreages popping up everywhere and increased numbers of hunters in the field, I have considered bow or crossbow hunting just to open up hunting areas that are no longer safe for rifle.

For the same reason (and because we have started hunting with our young children) we have started using some blinds though I prefer spot and stalk or still hunting even if our success rate is lower. Can get set up in a safe shooting direction and make sure they don’t shoot anywhere else. Tree blinds can enhance the safety of rifle hunting by ensuring a safe backstop. Of course, you or your kids can fall out of the tree then…

T

375Ruger416 said:

That’s a good point. With acreages popping up everywhere and increased numbers of hunters in the field, I have considered bow or crossbow hunting just to open up hunting areas that are no longer safe for rifle.

For the same reason (and because we have started hunting with our young children) we have started using some blinds though I prefer spot and stalk or still hunting even if our success rate is lower. Can get set up in a safe shooting direction and make sure they don’t shoot anywhere else. Tree blinds can enhance the safety of rifle hunting by ensuring a safe backstop. Of course, you or your kids can fall out of the tree then…

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High seats here in Germany and the rest of Europe allow for a better backstop or kugelfang in German. This is why no one gets to hunt from the ground, other than those pesky Austrians in the mountains.