Propoganda videos from anti-hunting groups

[firehuntfish]

Hello All,

I was just visiting another hunting website that I frequent that is set up primarily for Georgia Sportsmen. One of the members posted an 8 minute video clip from YouTube that depicted African Lion hunting in a less than flattering way. The video implies that lions are shot from the backs of trucks often with a high fence barrier between the hunter and the animal...I watched the video before jumping to conclusions, and it was very obvious that this was an anti-hunting video. The video was put out by a RSA based "sanctuary" by the name of SanWild Wildlife Trust. Home.
The woman who founded and runs this operation openly boasts her anti-hunting advocacy and commitment to her causes.

The reason for my post is that I found it extremely troubling that a lifelong hunter was moved enough to post this video on a hunting forum. His intent was not to expose it for what it truly was. His intent was that he truly questioned the ethics of hunters who have hunted Africa. He appealed to the forum members to see if anyone has hunted Africa and if this type of hunting truly exists...Of course, I immediately responded with the facts that I know of based on my expereinces in Africa. I went on to convey that any ethical hunter or reputable outfitter would never conduct a hunt in this manner. I tried to explain what PHASA is and the commitment they have to the ethics and conservation of the game...I discredited the video for what it was and issued a warning to be on the lookout for subtle propoganda media like this.

To my suprise, I received a couple of replies from members who have already been tainted by similar misinformation. They attemted to tell me that the reason they would never hunt Africa is because they heard it's all "canned hunting" This reaction is a perfect example of how the anti's are successfully planting seeds within the hunting community to divide and conquer.

I was wondering if any members here, particularly our African friends, have ever heard of SanWild and are familiar with this video? I'm not very computer literate, so I did not post the video here. I believe it's titled "raised to be killed". If you cannot find it you are all welcome to view it on the Georgia Outdoor News forum. The thread is titled "Africa hunting" under the General hunting category. Maybe you can read my responses as well and offer some help in presenting more of the facts....I seem to be under seige from our own kind....

 

[spike.t]

just took a look, and that is a woman (louise joubert) there will be no rationalizing with........

 

[BRICKBURN]

Louise Jouberts promotion video. Raised to be killed.



"Published on Mar 22, 2012
Urgent funding is needed to ensure that these rescued lions may live out their natural lives in safety; protected in their respective prides."

I know two of the folks in one of those trophy pictures and the lion was not even hunted in RSA.
It never happened.

I especially like the actor in the bakkie that can not even work a bolt action rifle.
Proof he's an actor.

Perhaps we should report her and her friend to MET for hunting from a vehicle!
I bet the cameraman had the lion on a leash to get that "shot" from in front of the bakkie!

Sad BS. I guess she is find out just how much lions eat. Not cheap pets.

 

[spike.t]

try looking on you tube for this video of her with the SA police , you may want to put your fingers in your ears if you get embarrassed like i do. . louise joubert from sanwild "sanctuary" and SAPS 27 12 2009

WARNING: NOT FOR THE YOUNGER VIEWERS.

 

[spike.t]

wayne thanks for waving the wand :thumb:

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Louise Jouberts promotion video. Raised to be killed.



"Published on Mar 22, 2012
Urgent funding is needed to ensure that these rescued lions may live out their natural lives in safety; protected in their respective prides, and that we get paid handsomely for making up this b.s.!"

Fixed it for ya.

 

[enysse]

You have to remember, she is not doing this to make money, she only cares about the animals :whatever:

 

[TOM]

Louise Jouberts promotion video. Raised to be killed.



I know two of the folks in one of those trophy pictures and the lion was not even hunted in RSA.
It never happened.

You mean Saeed and Jeff Rann?

 

[spike.t]

You mean Saeed and Jeff Rann?

i wonder if they know they are being used on this video?

 

[Bobpuckett]

Just more BS to hurt the hunters and BS is what it is.

 

[EDD]

She's got a nice MANE.... Throwing that lovely curls around while "debating" with the police got me thinking...... She'll make a great shoulder mount!!!!!

 

[Bobpuckett]

She's got a nice MANE.... Throwing that lovely curls around while "debating" with the police got me thinking...... She'll make a great shoulder mount!!!!!

EDD your a sick man take a trip to africa you need a holiday that thing looks worst then a Giant Forest Hog and I'm sure its in the hog family.

 

[EDD]

Then a Hog mount it is..... Bobpuckett! :angrymob:

 

[Bobpuckett]

Then a Hog mount it is..... Bobpuckett! :angrymob:

:rofl: now thats what I'm talking about hunters sticking together! :laughing:

 

[Mike70560]

This will probably be an upopular opinion here but it is what I believe.

I do disagree with much of what Joubert said. The fact that they would rather kill the lion than take a chance of it being sport hunted reflects their contempt for hunting. It is their wish that all hunting be banned.

Unfortunately the little she talked about lion hunting in South Africa (and other areas) is not that inaccurate. Lions are raised and release to be hunted. Some of these hunts are proper but some are not. Search around YouTube and you can find some disturbing behaviour on video on the internet.

At times we can be our own worst enemy.

 

[firehuntfish]

Unfortunately the little she talked about lion hunting in South Africa (and other areas) is not that inaccurate. Lions are raised and release to be hunted. Some of these hunts are proper but some are not. Search around YouTube and you can find some disturbing behaviour on video on the internet.

At times we can be our own worst enemy.

Mike,
I'm glad you made this post... This is exactly what I'm talking about...The member on the GON forum who posted this video was second guessing the ethics of African hunters based on this one video that he watched. Do you mind if ask ask you in more detail what makes you think that unethical hunts are occuring? Are your conclusions based solely on videos that you have seen on the internet or have you personally witnessed an unethical lion hunt?

If you have done research or have first hand experience, I would be very interested to hear about it. If you are basing your opinions on more YouTube videos, I'm afraid you might be falling into the same trap as my GON forum friends.... This video is only one of what is likely to be dozens of anti-hunting videos diguised as real hunts floating around the internet...

If you can find and post the videos you are talking about, or at least post the links, I would really be interested in seeing them. I believe every ethical hunter and outfitter on this forum would like to see them as well. This is a powerful forum that has members within the African hunting community with lots of influence and connections. I'm sure they all would have an interest in seeing who among them is running an unethical operation.

 

[Mike70560]

I have never hunted South Africa, maybe never will. I have hunted in Zim 4 times, Tanzania once, Mozambique once.

Lions are raised in South Africa and released to be hunted. That is a fact. I will not debate the ethics of that. If you want to hunt in that manner that is your right, as long as it is legal. Joubert and other want to outlaw that practice. Some operators conduct good hunts and are forthright about how it is conducted. Others do not. they give the industry a bad name.

If you think my opinion is formed on one video you are sadly mistaken. I personally know hunters that have shot lion in small enclosures. When you see 100% success rates on multiple lion hunts every year on a small property it is definitely put and take.

Here is one of the videos. Sadly they are faily common.

CANNED LION HUNT FOOTAGE 2012 - Hunter kills tame lioness in her enclosure in South Africa - YouTube

I have fallen in to no trap. Sadly many people believe the lion they hunt in South Africa was a cattle killer that came over from the Park when in actuality it slept in a kennel the night before.

Since you questioned me, how many times have you been to Africa? Have you seen wild lion freely roaming? Have you hunted lion in South Africa?

 

[shakari]

I apologise for a hurried post but I'm late for an appointment.

I'm not a fan of the Jouberts and in fact, I'm not a fan of any and I do mean any of the organisations and individuals involved in the lion debate but nevertheless here goes:

I first got involved in the African sport hunting industry in 1980 in RSA and have since hunted professionally in something like 7 African countries and lived permanently in RSA for about 12 years prior to the end of 2011 when I retired to Portugal. I don't pretend to know everything about African hunting in one country, let alone more than one but I have been around the block a few times and do know the African hunting industry reasonably well.

As far as I'm concerned there are very few if any truly wild lion hunts in South Africa. sure there are some areas that contain lions that fend for themselves and were born outside fences etc but I doubt there's any. let alone many that are not habituated to vehicles and people. I'm not suggesting that makes them any less dangerous and in fact, the opposite might be argued as true but they don't behave as a wild lion behaves.

The VAST majority of lions that are shot in RSA are pen bred animals that have been released a day or two and often an hour or two before the arrival of the shooter. (I refuse to call him a hunter).

The lions are very often still under the influence of drugs when they're shot and if you doubt that, just look at the vids on you tube or if you ever shoot one, just ask to take a blood sample from the lion so you can have it analysed for drugs and watch the reaction you get from the people involved.

A few years ago, Minister van Schalkwyk wanted to introduce a mandatory wilding period for SA lions to ensure they were not freshly drugged and/or newly released and would therefore know the area they were in and could use that knowledge to evade pursuers......... At the last minute prior to introduction of the legislation, the lion breeders association threatened to sue him so the spineless moron simply removed lions from the list of dangerous animals the act applied to.

now let's look at the maths behind why the lion breeders association were so shite scared of having a mandatory wilding period.

We'll start by working on 1 lion released into an area for just 6 months or 182 days. IIRC the original proposal was for 2 years but we'll work on 6 months.

If that lion averages just 1 x impala worth US$150 each per day for 182 days that's a total cost to the landowner of US$27300 just to feed 1 lion. If that lion kills 1 x kudu per week worth US$750 as well, that's another US$19500. I appreciate you could deduct a few impala if he also kills kudu but this is rough maths and also doesn't allow for any wounded and lost.

Now consider he may well take an occasional sable and you see where I'm going with this and why the LBA were so desperate to scupper the legislation........ and just think, those figures are for 1 lion alone. If 10 are released then you put another zero on those figures.

And that gentlemen is why the vast majority of pen bred lions are released days or hours before being shot. It also means they often don't know which way is up, let alone where the water sources, escape routes and ambush spots are in the area he's in.

I started this by saying that I'm no fan of the Jouberts and I'm not but as I see it, they have a helluva good point about the canned lion issue in RSA and personally, I'd also like to see it banned entirely and with harsh penalties for non compliance.

At the end of the day, it's indefensible and if hunters continue to support it, I believe it could well bring about the total ban of all true sport trophy hunting because of the bad publicity it so rightly attracts.

In closing, I appreciate such a ban would mean some hunters don't get a lion in the trophy room but as I see it, you need to realise that hunting is hunting and not supermarket shopping and sometimes some of us can't have everything we want. - don't bleat that you want a lion but can't afford it. - Instead consider that life is like that and maybe your loss might mean that true sport trophy hunting might continue for another generation to enjoy instead of it being banned because you were more concerned about your decor than the next generation.

That'll put the cat amongst the pigeons!

 

[firehuntfish]

Mike 70560,

I sent you a PM and my remarks were sincere. My intent was not to question your African experience or offend you...

I watched the video on the conservancy in Zim and it was very impressive. I would like to think that most game ranchers in Africa follow that model...

The link to the other video, however, really only strengthens my argument about the legitimacy of so many of these hunting videos posted on the internet.... Was this an unethical, completely emabarrassing display? Absolutely! In fact, so much so that it's pretty apparent that it's contrived... First of all, the "hunter" could not even hold or draw the bow properly. Secondly, many shot opportunites were passed in order to get footage of the cat playing and rolling in the grass. What hunter is his right mind would purposely and proudly post a ridiculous video like that?? Thirdly, the hunter was definitely not American, he was obviously speaking the same language as the rest of the crew on the truck. It would not suprise me if this was the same film crew that posted the first video I introduced....

I'm sorry...In my evaluation, this is another BS video...

 

[shakari]

You tube and the crap that these mucking forons post on it do immense damage to hunting and I'll never understand why people post such crap.