TSS ammo...is it worth it?

[BeeMaa]

Like many, I hunt all kinds of birds with my shotguns. Up until recently I've been using lead or copper coated lead for everything except waterfowling. Since 1991 waterfowling has required nontoxic shot and for a long time this has meant steel. Steel being less dense than lead required the hunters to go up two shot sizes to get the punch needed on waterfowl vs what they were using before. This forced the shotgun manufacturers & ammo companies to come up with 3.5" shells so they could pack enough payload of (steel) shot to get the humane kills on waterfowl. Now they have developed a new TSS (Tungsten Super Shot) that has a density of 18 g/cc. For reference lead is 11 g/cc and steel is 7.8 g/cc. Obviously TSS is better and I've heard and seen (on YouTube) that people are poleaxing waterfowl & turkey out to incredible ranges.

That leads me to this weekend. A few friends and I head to a house in the country for a few days on our own. I brought Hevi-Shot 3.5" BB and BBB, Federal TSS 7 shot and Hevi-Shot Magnum Blend 5/6/7 shot. All were being shot out of my Benelli Super Black Eagle 2 using Carlson's chokes.

Federal TSS 7 is my #1 pick costing about $10 per shell. They do the job out beyond 60 and possibly 70 yards for EVERYTHING. Goose, duck, turkey...doesn't matter this stuff is gonna kill any bird you can see out beyond 60 yards. Devastating results that I never suspected. I've just ordered a bunch of this for our ammo locker. I would have shot a couple more of these but my shoulder couldn't take it. Felt like I was shooting a 460WBY without a brake.

Hevi-Shot Magnum Blend 5/6/7 is good but not better than TSS costing $8 per shell. Way better than steel but didn't pattern for me as well as the TSS. I'll use what I have left for waterfowling out to 50 or so yards but not for turkey.

Hevi-Shot BB & BBB cost $1.50 per shell - I didn't save the patterns for the Hevi-Shot loads because they were fine at 30 yards, but anything beyond that was garbage. I'll use what I have left in the event I need a finishing shot on a wounded duck or goose. Anyone looking for this ammo, send me a PM and I'll sell it to you.

Patterns speak for themselves.

 

[Dukeisok]

Tss is amazing stuff. I handload my own. Tss costs about $50 per pound of pellets, but pellets can be much smaller and thus payloads much lighter than standard while still giving excellent penetration and patterns. My favorite loads include 5/8 Oz #9 tss in a 20 gauge. Absolutely lethal on ducks and in our case effective on a swan my son body shot at about 40 yards. I had intended to use number 7 tss for swan but he forgot to switch and it worked just fine. No pellets in the meat because they carry right through. Loading my own I figure about $3.5 per shell. Exorbitant but effective.

 

[BeeMaa]

I never would have guessed that I could get results like this at distances so great. So glad I went and patterned these loads.

Speaking to the cost, my friend is having to shoot the same goose 3 times to get it on the ground with Hevi-Shot/steel BBB, BB and at 40 yards. The pattern boards told the same tale. Poor patterns beyond about 30 yards with a Carlson‘s Black Cloud Long Range (full) choke. IMO - this is crap, and costs him several shots just to get one bird down. It’s not equal to the price of one TSS shell...but it does close the gap a bunch.

 

[Dukeisok]

Like many things, cost is relative. I work for a living and rarely get to hunt as much as I want. My hunting time is precious and even though a box of hand loaded 20 gauge runs me something like 90 bucks, that is nothing compared to time off, driving 5 hours to the flyway, a hotel, and paying a guide or hunting lease. The lighter loads recoil less and significantly increase the hit percentage for my 10 year old. Steel has such poor density that to make it reasonably effective, you have to load it heavy and fast, greatly increasing recoil. Recoil helps no one hunt better and is especially deleterious when teaching youngsters.

As an aside, I have found that handloading small volumes of precision shotshells requires almost no equipment (as compared to high volume target loads). I load mine with a pencil to seat the shot cup, weigh each powder charge and shot charge on a small scale and crimp with a roll crimper (gaep makes a really nice one). No press needed.

You may even find yourself trading out the 12 gauge for a 20 or 28. Even a .410 is quite effective on turkey with a full load of number 9 tss.

 

[BeeMaa]

Another thing my friend and I were talking about is shooting them on the water. If we were to wait until 2 or even 3 lined up and take just one shot, we could have your limit in no time...with just a couple of shots. The TSS option is getting more cost effective all the time. LOL.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

Don’t judge me but I water swatted a gadwall from 65 yards last weekend in Arkansas and my buddies in the blind were in awe. I usually shoot a tss per 5 shells of steel shot for waterfowl. Depending on the set up. I have to make up for my bad shooting somehow. Tss helps me look ok sometimes. Lol.

 

[BeeMaa]

Don’t judge me but I water swatted a gadwall from 65 yards last weekend in Arkansas and my buddies in the blind were in awe. I usually shoot a tss per 5 shells of steel shot for waterfowl. Depending on the set up. I have to make up for my bad shooting somehow. Tss helps me look ok sometimes. Lol.

Are you saying 1 TSS shell equals 5 steel shells in your experience?

Anything with a shot shell at 65 yards is not luck...it's good equipment and good shooting. Well done.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

No. I am saying I load a tss as first shell and then next two as steel. Depending on set up. I might shoot a tss, steel , steel volley. Then steel, steel, steel. Then Tss, steel, steel again. Tss costs too much for me to shoot every shot.

I will walk hundreds of yards and crawl over a dyke to get a 60-70 yard shot with tss on a duck. Just ask my friends. Lol

 

[Ray B]

@ questions: 1, Is the TSS soft enough to not damage thin barrels?
2. How does one figure the lead necessary to hit a duck at 60+ yards? 2', due to increase density I presume the shot holds it's velocity better than other less dense shots.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

Tss is hard.

I like the 1200 ft sec steel shot and just shoot the 1150 FPS tss the same.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

Tss is amazing stuff. I handload my own. Tss costs about $50 per pound of pellets, but pellets can be much smaller and thus payloads much lighter than standard while still giving excellent penetration and patterns. My favorite loads include 5/8 Oz #9 tss in a 20 gauge. Absolutely lethal on ducks and in our case effective on a swan my son body shot at about 40 yards. I had intended to use number 7 tss for swan but he forgot to switch and it worked just fine. No pellets in the meat because they carry right through. Loading my own I figure about $3.5 per shell. Exorbitant but effective.

Do you load 12 gauge tss?

 

[BeeMaa]

We did a bit of shooting with a 10-15 mph crosswind and it moved the shot significantly...about 4" shift in the pattern at 30 yards. We then switched to shooting with the wind, which is why on one of the patterns it says "zero wind". Have no misconceptions, physics is still at play and just because it says TSS doesn't make it exempt from all the other things that change POI.

What does this mean for those trying to determine lead on a flying bird. I'm not sure but I don't think I'll be heading to the clays range to shoot a round of skeet for $10/shot. What it does mean to me is wait until the bird is stationary on the land/water and then take the shot. You can always take a shot at the birds you didn't hit on the ground as they try to fly away.

 

[K-man]

Well you may want to try the Boss line of copper plated tungsten. A case of 200 is $300 to $325 but as already said, you only need one. My son and I killed 9 geese (in the air) with only 3 shots each last weekend. Those were the #3, I just got my case of #2 3inch. I too was tired of using 2 to 3 shots of steel per bird, then not being able to kill the second (or third) bird because I was empty. I have used the Hevi-shot line and Hevi-steel but was less than impressed. Better than steel but not worth the extra cost. Boss has supply issues like most companies today, you may not get any before this season is over. Had a nice booth at DSC.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I’m having trouble wrapping my head around $10 a round shells. It may be worth it, but if you can’t afford it in the first place, it doesn’t really matter.
I know several waterfowl hunters who would fall into that category. They all shoot steel, with an exception or two shooting Hevi-shot.

 

[BeeMaa]

Also the subject of multiple guns has been brought up for different situations. My friend currently has a Browning Maxus but is considering a Browning Cynergy with 3.5" chambers and two chokes for the different ranges. He'd load the Maxus with the Hevi-Shot BB/BBB for close in/finishing shots. The Cynergy would have a TSS Turkey choke/Black Cloud Long range choke both loaded with TSS rounds for the 30 yard to possibly 70 yard shots.

There's no limit on the number of shotguns you can have in a blind. Being able to pick up the right gun and barrel for the right situation could be a big plus.

 

[Deleted member 40394]

I am going to do some pattern testing soon. I have 3 waterfowl chokes and going to shoot some steel/ tss blends. I may move to migra but the tss part of the load should be #7 or smaller in my opinion. Might go to apex blends.

 

[BeeMaa]

I’m having trouble wrapping my head around $10 a round shells. It may be worth it, but if you can’t afford it in the first place, it doesn’t really matter.
I know several waterfowl hunters who would fall into that category. They all shoot steel, with an exception or two shooting Hevi-shot.

This is tough and it's the real source of this entire debate...is it worth it? Worth it to you?

I suspect if more people were exposed to exactly what TSS is capable of...they would at least consider buying a box to try them out.

 

[BeeMaa]

I am going to do some pattern testing soon. I have 3 waterfowl chokes and going to shoot some steel/ tss blends. I may move to migra but the tss part of the load should be #7 or smaller in my opinion. Might go to apex blends.

Pattern testing is the way to go. Glad you are going to check your rig out. I saw a YouTuber shooting Apex ammo and it looks like good stuff. It's difficult to get because they are a smaller company and still at least $6.50/shell before shipping. Better than $10/shell, but if it's not available then it's not much use.

Be careful and check your local laws. Some places (like the state of NY) don't allow shot smaller than #8. Some of these loads have #9 pellets or are a blend of two pellet sizes. ANYTHING loaded with #9 could land you in hot water.

 

[Red Leg]

I will not fire steel through any of my guns - Golden age or new - the birds deserve it.

 

[BeeMaa]

I will not fire steel through any of my guns - Golden age or new - the birds deserve it.

Yes I know, it's bismuth for you. But bismuth has a density around 9.6 g/cc...quite the handicap compared to TSS at 18. I know, I know...older firearms can't handle this new fangled TSS so you have to dance with the one you came with.