.44-40 lee enfield

[camerl2009]

So idk if this belongs here but I figured this would be a better accepting forum vs a milsurp forum.

Being in Canada theres plenty of no1 mk3 and no4 mk1 Lee Enfield sporters kicking around most kitchen table jobs done with a hack saw.

I have had an idea in my head for a lone time of a pistol caliber Lee and something other then the .45 acp kits you see and since I'm a fan of the odd .44-40 seems fitting.

Biggest question Is there enough meat on a military barrel for a 5/8 inch .44-40 liner.

The bolt on my MLE picks up a .44-40 case no problem magazine will be a issue that I'd have to sort out.

What's the reason for all this none really but having a handy low recoil rifle that can still game up to deer size(not going to argue with this as lots of deer here in north America have met their end to the lowly .44-40)would be awesome and.

 

[Boyd Brooks]

It sounds like an unusual build, but if you move ahead why not build it in 44 Mag?
Unless you are a machinist yourself, you will have a hard time finding a competent gunsmith in Ontario. I have had a project at Elwood Epps for 26 months now.

 

[camerl2009]

It sounds like an unusual build, but if you move ahead why not build it in 44 Mag?
Unless you are a machinist yourself, you will have a hard time finding a competent gunsmith in Ontario. I have had a project at Elwood Epps for 26 months now.

Rim size is a factor the .44-40 is closer then .44 mag. Seems to me after relining all that would need to be done would be a chamber roaming everything else I should be able to work out myself.

I have a project i have yet to send to Epps but their pretty much the only game in town when it comes to re barrels it's a p14 that I'm putting a 6mm barrel on and having chambered for 6mm musgrave(Essex county 6mm limit for small game and coyote) going to be my yote gun.
There was a gunsmith here in Essex county cant remeber their name but they were hiring a few year back mainly dealt with 12.2 and movie prop stuff(non 12.2 full auto).

I want to learn the trade myself but got to start small bc I lack machine tools but dream of building safari guns and heavy hitters for here on mausers and p14/p17 actions still plenty laying around been reading a whole lot and trying to find tools. One of the projects I'm planning on first is building a flintlock lock from scratch figure if I can start where it all started I have no buisness in this trade.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

The No.4 enfield should make a good 44mag single shot. @Bob Nelson 35Whelen had a 444 marlin built on one.

 

[Hunter4752001]

I've seen a SMLE converted to 45 Colt (not 45 ACP). Used an M1 Carbine magazine which was just the right size to function as a single stack mag in that calibre. Have fun with your project.

 

[Sarg]

Great to see another Lee project, if you can have the barrel rebore & rifled it may save a bit of work & yes I would of thought a 44Mag would be better, how ever I to have a bunch of 44/40's in old girls - Winchesters & Remington pumps !

If you used the heavier MLE or the H barrel it might take the rebore, I had a SMLE profile rebored out to .375 & been waiting a long time to get a .40 done on a H as there are no screw holes in those .

Good tip on the M1 Carbine mags @Hunter4752001, I remember now they were used in the Universal Vulcan Pump M1 in 44 mag, unfortunately here all ours got crushed, would of been a good job for them !

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

I owned a Desert Eagle in .44 Magnum. The magazine was a single stack, stacked at an angle. It functioned perfectly!

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It sounds like an unusual build, but if you move ahead why not build it in 44 Mag?
Unless you are a machinist yourself, you will have a hard time finding a competent gunsmith in Ontario. I have had a project at Elwood Epps for 26 months now.

@Boyd Brooks
What sort of project are you having done at Epps.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

So idk if this belongs here but I figured this would be a better accepting forum vs a milsurp forum.

Being in Canada theres plenty of no1 mk3 and no4 mk1 Lee Enfield sporters kicking around most kitchen table jobs done with a hack saw.

I have had an idea in my head for a lone time of a pistol caliber Lee and something other then the .45 acp kits you see and since I'm a fan of the odd .44-40 seems fitting.

Biggest question Is there enough meat on a military barrel for a 5/8 inch .44-40 liner.

The bolt on my MLE picks up a .44-40 case no problem magazine will be a issue that I'd have to sort out.

What's the reason for all this none really but having a handy low recoil rifle that can still game up to deer size(not going to argue with this as lots of deer here in north America have met their end to the lowly .44-40)would be awesome and.

So idk if this belongs here but I figured this would be a better accepting forum vs a milsurp forum.

Being in Canada theres plenty of no1 mk3 and no4 mk1 Lee Enfield sporters kicking around most kitchen table jobs done with a hack saw.

I have had an idea in my head for a lone time of a pistol caliber Lee and something other then the .45 acp kits you see and since I'm a fan of the odd .44-40 seems fitting.

Biggest question Is there enough meat on a military barrel for a 5/8 inch .44-40 liner.

The bolt on my MLE picks up a .44-40 case no problem magazine will be a issue that I'd have to sort out.

What's the reason for all this none really but having a handy low recoil rifle that can still game up to deer size(not going to argue with this as lots of deer here in north America have met their end to the lowly .44-40)would be awesome and.

@camerl2009

@camerl2009
The barrel onion the smle is to small enough to sleeve.
What you could do is find an old model 92 barrel in 44/40 and cut the 303 barrel off at the front of the Knox form and have it threaded in to the Knox form.
The mag is no bid issue just make up a single stack mag to fit inside the existing mag. You may be able to find an old mag that will fit the 44 then mount it at front of the 303 mag.
For more info just pm me
Bob

 

[camerl2009]

Great to see another Lee project, if you can have the barrel rebore & rifled it may save a bit of work & yes I would of thought a 44Mag would be better, how ever I to have a bunch of 44/40's in old girls - Winchesters & Remington pumps !

If you used the heavier MLE or the H barrel it might take the rebore, I had a SMLE profile rebored out to .375 & been waiting a long time to get a .40 done on a H as there are no screw holes in those .

Good tip on the M1 Carbine mags @Hunter4752001, I remember now they were used in the Universal Vulcan Pump M1 in 44 mag, unfortunately here all ours got crushed, would of been a good job for them !

I kinda want to keep the mle sporter around as you dont really see mle at all here as it is. Re bore is not an option cant find anyone who does it but 8 could always find a .428-.429 blank and just silver solder it into the Lee barrel shank

 

[camerl2009]

@Boyd Brooks
What sort of project are you having done at Epps.
Bob

It's not the same people running it as the old EPPS I believe it is a family members though. I think the original app sporting goods was actually here in Windsor Ontario we usee to have one downtown anyway.

I'd love to build an Epps improved one of these days missed out on a .303 Epps reamer a few months ago

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Rim size is a factor the .44-40 is closer then .44 mag. Seems to me after relining all that would need to be done would be a chamber roaming everything else I should be able to work out myself.

I have a project i have yet to send to Epps but their pretty much the only game in town when it comes to re barrels it's a p14 that I'm putting a 6mm barrel on and having chambered for 6mm musgrave(Essex county 6mm limit for small game and coyote) going to be my yote gun.
There was a gunsmith here in Essex county cant remeber their name but they were hiring a few year back mainly dealt with 12.2 and movie prop stuff(non 12.2 full auto).

I want to learn the trade myself but got to start small bc I lack machine tools but dream of building safari guns and heavy hitters for here on mausers and p14/p17 actions still plenty laying around been reading a whole lot and trying to find tools. One of the projects I'm planning on first is building a flintlock lock from scratch figure if I can start where it all started I have no buisness in this trade.

@camerl2009
Forget the 6mm Musgrave and go my version of the 25 Epps. They have a 25Epps cartridge at the shop that I gave them
On a P14 it give excellent performance, a 100gn Sierra btsp at 3,600fps shoots flat for a long ways and still hits hard.
To get the smle to extract the 44/40 you will have to remove the extractor and file it down 0.020 tho to get it to bite in further. Ejection is done by modifying the ejector screw.

My 25/303 Epps improved with a 117grain SST that does 3,300fps
Bob

 

[camerl2009]

@camerl2009
Forget the 6mm Musgrave and go my version of the 25 Epps. They have a 25Epps cartridge at the shop that I gave them
On a P14 it give excellent performance, a 100gn Sierra btsp at 3,600fps shoots flat for a long ways and still hits hard.
To get the smle to extract the 44/40 you will have to remove the extractor and file it down 0.020 tho to get it to bite in further. Ejection is done by modifying the ejector screw.
View attachment 445744
My 25/303 Epps improved with a 117grain SST that does 3,300fps
Bob

To big for my county unfortunately were limited to .243/6mm max so is most of southern Ontario its bow only for deer too.

No reason it couldn't be necked down to .243 though

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It's not the same people running it as the old EPPS I believe it is a family members though. I think the original app sporting goods was actually here in Windsor Ontario we usee to have one downtown anyway.

I'd love to build an Epps improved one of these days missed out on a .303 Epps reamer a few months ago

@camerl2009
The Epps store I went to was in Orillia Ontario and was owned by a fella call Wes. I can't remember his last name but he bought it from old Elwood.
The No4 Mk1 SMLE is the strongest of the SMLEs and the better one for higher pressure conversion but the old No1Mk111 would be ideal for the 44-40.
A very simple conversion is to cut the barrel off at the knox form and chamber the barrel for 32-20 or 327 magnum and ream the Knox form to take the new threaded portion of the barrel. Or to really save money get a 303 cartridge made out of an old barrel and chamber the the cartridge for the 32-20. Makes a dandy chamber insert and you can still use it as a 303.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

To big for my county unfortunately were limited to .243/6mm max so is most of southern Ontario its bow only for deer too.

No reason it couldn't be necked down to .243 though

@camerl2009
Yes would be easy and it would almost equal the 240 Weatherby even in a No4 mk1.
No reason you couldn't get the 85gn Barnes TTSX out at 3,500fps out of it at around 47,000 cup.
Bob

 

[camerl2009]

@camerl2009
The Epps store I went to was in Orillia Ontario and was owned by a fella call Wes. I can't remember his last name but he bought it from old Elwood.
The No4 Mk1 SMLE is the strongest of the SMLEs and the better one for higher pressure conversion but the old No1Mk111 would be ideal for the 44-40.
A very simple conversion is to cut the barrel off at the knox form and chamber the barrel for 32-20 or 327 magnum and ream the Knox form to take the new threaded portion of the barrel. Or to really save money get a 303 cartridge made out of an old barrel and chamber the the cartridge for the 32-20. Makes a dandy chamber insert and you can still use it as a 303.
Bob

They used to sell inserts for 7.62x25 and another one that used .32 acp and .32 Smith and Wesson. I have a hammond game getter in .303 British that you used a .22 Ramsey blank and a 00 bucket pellet size down great for small game.

 

[Hunter4752001]

I wouldn't worry about modifying the ejector screw unless needed. The SMLE is designed to eject empty cases by the friction of the case rim against the left wall of the receiver. The ejector screw was primarily designed for a drill in which loaded rounds could be partially cycled and ejected to unload the mag. A secondary use was as a fail safe if friction didn't eject the cases. (G'day Bob. remove your ejector screw and give it a try with an empty case. I'm always being amazed at how ingenious the designers and developers of the SMLE were.)

If you have access to a 429-428 barrel blank why f**** around silver soldering it to a SMLE barrel shank? Just thread it suit. From memory its 0.997" x 14 TPI and a 55 degree included angle (ie Whitwoth form) V thread rounded crest and root. Measure the original barrel threads to confirm.

 

[camerl2009]

I wouldn't worry about modifying the ejector screw unless needed. The SMLE is designed to eject empty cases by the friction of the case rim against the left wall of the receiver. The ejector screw was primarily designed for a drill in which loaded rounds could be partially cycled and ejected to unload the mag. A secondary use was as a fail safe if friction didn't eject the cases. (G'day Bob. remove your ejector screw and give it a try with an empty case. I'm always being amazed at how ingenious the designers and developers of the SMLE were.)

If you have access to a 429-428 barrel blank why f**** around silver soldering it to a SMLE barrel shank? Just thread it suit. From memory its 0.997" x 14 TPI and a 55 degree included angle (ie Whitwoth form) V thread rounded crest and root. Measure the original barrel threads to confirm.

Dont have a lathe unfortunately been looking but cant find much that I like. Was going to just remove the barrel and hand it off to a machinist buddy to bite and reline.
That is the thread though its actually 1 inch but they gave it a bit of slop so barrels arnt permanently stuck it's the same thread used to the snider,martini Henry/Enfield, and the British Lee family of rifles.
Too bad the action is not big enough a .577 snider or .577-450 Lee would be neat just for s***'s and giggles love my Snider and martinis.

 

[Sarg]

I wouldn't worry about modifying the ejector screw unless needed. The SMLE is designed to eject empty cases by the friction of the case rim against the left wall of the receiver. The ejector screw was primarily designed for a drill in which loaded rounds could be partially cycled and ejected to unload the mag. A secondary use was as a fail safe if friction didn't eject the cases. (G'day Bob. remove your ejector screw and give it a try with an empty case. I'm always being amazed at how ingenious the designers and developers of the SMLE were.)

If you have access to a 429-428 barrel blank why f**** around silver soldering it to a SMLE barrel shank? Just thread it suit. From memory its 0.997" x 14 TPI and a 55 degree included angle (ie Whitwoth form) V thread rounded crest and root. Measure the original barrel threads to confirm.

Yes the old Lee extractor, ejector works amazingly well, I read when they converted them to 223 Range rifles it works with no modification, same up to 45/70 & 45/90 !

I have one of those shell conversions a Winchester to .32 S&W, shoots well really, I got it in a bag of second hand cases & thought bugger the bottoms turns off, then saw it was a shell shrinker !

I see in Canada it is a common practice to used the barrel shank/knox & thread a new barrel into them, most likely from the use in the old days of a company who converted Carcanos ?

There is a very fine Gunsmith in BC I think who does projects like that now (see above) & we have many guys building 45 ACP Delisle Enfields here in NZ .

 

[Sarg]

The nice way to do the magazine here .

Problem here of coarse is the mag is at the back to use the latch & I think the set the barrel back on these & shorten the bolt ?