Slug hunting Plains Game and Dangerous Game?

[Red Leg]

There are African nations that have no restrictions. That part of my comment is for the ones that don’t-lol.

Really? And which ones would those be? Please inform us where you intend to mount your unrestricted safari and for what game. Even Mozambique, which is non-restrictive on rifle caliber, has a very strict quota system which will limit you to what your PH (and the government) says you can shoot.

 

[Red Leg]

Was not intending to insult a PH. They are required to abide or lose their livelihood. I don’t like authority, and I don’t like unnecessary restrictions. I particularly dislike people that give in , and then tell everyone else they have to. Surprised some of you that responded to my post didn’t get that. As for hunting in a proximity where an unharvested wounded animal can attack a kid from school? Ain’t gonna happen with me cause I would only hunt dangerous game where it is remote and unlikely to happen. Or I won’t hunt. Apparently some folks have no problem with others telling them how to live. We all live by laws to maintain order in civilization. But there are many that pass some laws to control you, and get you used to being controlled by them. Kinda like you see with the pandemic. I would think most hunters appreciate freedom. Besides, growing up in Brooklyn,NY we often skirted many rules because the law makers and enforcers regularly broke them. Other than that, if you don’t like my comment- too bad- and I could care less-lol. Happy New Year! Live Free or Die !!!
PS. When I have more time I’ll read all the responses to my post and comment accordingly.
I’m sure some of you might bring saying to yourself at this point: thanks for the warning. Or better yet, hoping I don’t bother at all- LMAO.

Seriously? As opposed to simply and argumentatively displaying your ignorance of the subject, a few simple questions about the art of the possible when hunting various regions of Africa would provide you an enormous amount of information from some extraordinarily informed sources on this forum.

There is a politics thread on the site you may wish to explore if you are really more interested in venting whatever your particular political fantasies may encompass.

 

[K-man]

My list of ignored members seems to be getting a bit longer......

 

[double rifle newbie]

Why not? Serious question. When you respond, please understand that the largest thing I've killed is a smallish deer, I've never been to Africa, and the closest I've come to a Lion is at the zoo, but based on what I know of terminal ballistics, what makes a 12ga repeating firearm loaded with Brenneke slugs a bad choice for a hunt where distances won't exceed 100 yards?

I mean, it's a 3/4" projectile that penetrates almost 3 feet...how is this inadequate? Didn't they used to kill those things with sharp sticks "back in the day"?

i didnt have a shot less than 100 yards on any PG animal when i was in namibia. the kudu i took was at 235 yards (see my pic). couldnt get any closer and wouldnt have had a shot with a rifled shotgun. can one use a rifled barrel with a sabot slug to drop PG? yes. will u miss out on many opportunities to shoot because they are out of range? probably so.
i have a remington 870 with a rifled barrel and leupold on top that i hunt for whitetail deer on family property in minnesota because in the southern part of the state, rifles are not allowed. i would use a rifle if given the choice, without question.
my humble opinion. happy hunting!

 

[CJW]

I think it would be very cool to take a slug gun to Africa. The modern day accuracy and performance of slug guns and sabot ammunition put them on another level of effectiveness. I wouldn't even feel undergunned on leopard or lion, if it were legal of course.

I read somewhere that a guy from Illinois killed an elephant with a broadside shot and a specially loaded by Hornady copper slug. I'll have to see if I can find the article.

I have a Browning Gold and a slug barrel that I would have loved to take but it isn't legal anywhere I don't believe. Then again I think I've seen people take semi-auto's to SA.

 

[rookhawk]

I think it would be very cool to take a slug gun to Africa. The modern day accuracy and performance of slug guns and sabot ammunition put them on another level of effectiveness. I wouldn't even feel undergunned on leopard or lion, if it were legal of course.

I read somewhere that a guy from Illinois killed an elephant with a broadside shot and a specially loaded by Hornady copper slug. I'll have to see if I can find the article.

I have a Browning Gold and a slug barrel that I would have loved to take but it isn't legal anywhere I don't believe. Then again I think I've seen people take semi-auto's to SA.

Living in a slug only state, I’ve built a lot of high end slug rifles over the years pursuing ever more accuracy and precision. By quality and features, the ones I build are superior to BOTW and TarHunt by a significant margin. (Although I do use tarhunt barrels)

All that to say, owning and building slug rifles that cost more than my first several cars each, it’s a very dumb weapon for a safari. I’d run out of digital ink before I could list all the reasons it’s a terrible idea. A few random ones:

All slug guns feed for crap. You throw that bolt wrong and you’ve got a jam.

The sensitivity to recoil is profound on the ammo. You “top off” once or twice and the accuracy of the 2nd round is seriously compromised by the jarring under recoil. (Bullets slide around in the hull)

The velocity swings due to temperature are significant with most loads. A 20fps swing is many inches even at relatively close ranges.

the bullets that are most accurate (e.g. accutip sabot 260gr) are very soft, designed for expansion into 200lb deer. They are not designed for elk or African game.

Due to significant drop, precise laser range finding is essential. It’s not a 375 where you just aim for the vitals and pull the trigger. All mine have custom burned turrets so they are viable hunting tools.

they are the most fickle of all guns for ammunition. That one load is the only load that regulates. You may wait 2 years to find a case of that ammo. You won’t find any ammo in Africa of any sort compatible if you lose your ammo.

The two round magazine capacity is not optimal for Africa.

I’ll stop there for now, but I’ll give you a hundred more reasons if you’re not persuaded. For the same price as one of my custom 20 gauge slug rifles you can own a nice London rifle in 375 that’s 10x more accurate and doesn’t look like a POS.

 

[Vashper]

shotguns were the main ones in Russia, rifles have become massively available recently, but shotguns are still more common. Kamchatka bear, elk, large boar, as well as (poachers) bison, tiger and leopard were hunted and hunted with them. This is quite a "dangerous game". The main limitation is the range up to 50 meters and low accuracy. Slaughter is quite enough. But I wouldn't go for a big behemoth with a shotgun. In addition, the shotgun is universal and allows you to shoot small animals (roe deer, piglets) on the run with buckshot (this is with restrictions). And it spoils the meat less.
Two weeks ago, 20 gauge

 

[BeeMaa]

I'm with @rookhawk (and most other members) on this. A rifle is a much better choice for all manner of DG and PG. The only exception I see is for some of the T10 that could be taken with shotshells but certainly not a slug.

Areas in the US where hunting is restricted to slug guns are generally highly populated and if hunters were given the choice, most would choose hunt with modern rifle calibers. So why would you spend thousands of dollars to go to far away lands to hunt these amazing animals and choose a weapon that most wouldn't choose if they were hunting in their backyard?

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

Seriously? As opposed to simply and argumentatively displaying your ignorance of the subject, a few simple questions about the art of the possible when hunting various regions of Africa would provide you an enormous amount of information from some extraordinarily informed sources on this forum.

There is a politics thread on the site you may wish to explore if you are really more interested in venting whatever your particular political fantasies may encompass.

@Red Leg reminds me of the old saying never argue with an idiot, they’ll drag you down to there level and beat you with experience. While I honestly believe you sir could never be drawn down to his level best not to chance it. In the field of ignorance arrogance and unintelligence our Brooklyn friend seems to have know equal.

 

[Odinsraven]

Was not intending to insult a PH. They are required to abide or lose their livelihood. I don’t like authority, and I don’t like unnecessary restrictions. I particularly dislike people that give in , and then tell everyone else they have to. Surprised some of you that responded to my post didn’t get that. As for hunting in a proximity where an unharvested wounded animal can attack a kid from school? Ain’t gonna happen with me cause I would only hunt dangerous game where it is remote and unlikely to happen. Or I won’t hunt. Apparently some folks have no problem with others telling them how to live. We all live by laws to maintain order in civilization. But there are many that pass some laws to control you, and get you used to being controlled by them. Kinda like you see with the pandemic. I would think most hunters appreciate freedom. Besides, growing up in Brooklyn,NY we often skirted many rules because the law makers and enforcers regularly broke them. Other than that, if you don’t like my comment- too bad- and I could care less-lol. Happy New Year! Live Free or Die !!!
PS. When I have more time I’ll read all the responses to my post and comment accordingly.
I’m sure some of you might bring saying to yourself at this point: thanks for the warning. Or better yet, hoping I don’t bother at all- LMAO.

Well Sir - you will not be booking a Safari with me that is for sure - a rather discourtious gentleman you are who wears his badge of ignorance with honour - Firstly most African countries do not permit the import of Semi-Auto or Pump Action shotguns by visiting hunters - the rest of your post is therefore just noise!

 

[PeteG]

Let’s put it another way. If an African PH doesn’t let me shoot what I want, he won’t be getting a tip.

No problem. I would happily forgo a tip in favour of not losing my licence and income stream.
It would also be a sure fire way to end your hunt immediately and you’d be on the next plane out on your way home.

Without question this is one of the dumbest things I have seen someone say.
What a muppet.

 

[Vashper]

Wow! Battle!

 

[BeeMaa]

Wow! Battle!

Hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

 

[Vashper]

Hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

A gentleman won't do that.
Slug has its own niche when shooting offhand and in some cases. For example, when hunting by roundup, when the distance between the shooters is small. Also, if drivers come with guns, then rifles are undesirable. They don't see shooters chain.
Therefore, when I participate in round-up hunts, I also take a spare shotgun with me, in case I go as a beater. In other cases, the rifle, of course, is better - the bullet is more powerful and longer-range. There is nothing worse when you see a chain of wild boars on the other side of a 100-meter clearing, and you have a shotgun. It is almost impossible to take into account the vertical correction.

 

[Wyatt Smith]

I live in a slug only state, and there is no way I would trade any slug gun for my 30-06. Absolutely not. However below 100 yards my brenneke slugs do work well.

 

[HWL]

Reading this thread, I come to the conclusion, here in Europe, we live in the perfect world....of firearms.

Combination guns can be found in almost ever gun safe.

Drilling in 9,3x74R and 12 ga/12 ga...... slug?... simply load it and shot it,..... two slugs,... no problem,..... animal to far away..... 9,3 will handle it.

Or this one.... https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14616571#img

Krieghoff O/U 9,3x62 /12 ga.... what a gun!


HWL

 

[CJW]

Living in a slug only state, I’ve built a lot of high end slug rifles over the years pursuing ever more accuracy and precision. By quality and features, the ones I build are superior to BOTW and TarHunt by a significant margin. (Although I do use tarhunt barrels)

All that to say, owning and building slug rifles that cost more than my first several cars each, it’s a very dumb weapon for a safari. I’d run out of digital ink before I could list all the reasons it’s a terrible idea. A few random ones:

All slug guns feed for crap. You throw that bolt wrong and you’ve got a jam.

The sensitivity to recoil is profound on the ammo. You “top off” once or twice and the accuracy of the 2nd round is seriously compromised by the jarring under recoil. (Bullets slide around in the hull)

The velocity swings due to temperature are significant with most loads. A 20fps swing is many inches even at relatively close ranges.

the bullets that are most accurate (e.g. accutip sabot 260gr) are very soft, designed for expansion into 200lb deer. They are not designed for elk or African game.

Due to significant drop, precise laser range finding is essential. It’s not a 375 where you just aim for the vitals and pull the trigger. All mine have custom burned turrets so they are viable hunting tools.

they are the most fickle of all guns for ammunition. That one load is the only load that regulates. You may wait 2 years to find a case of that ammo. You won’t find any ammo in Africa of any sort compatible if you lose your ammo.

The two round magazine capacity is not optimal for Africa.

I’ll stop there for now, but I’ll give you a hundred more reasons if you’re not persuaded. For the same price as one of my custom 20 gauge slug rifles you can own a nice London rifle in 375 that’s 10x more accurate and doesn’t look like a POS.

Maybe you should have just saved all of your money and bought a double use gun like my Browning Gold 12 ga. which puts Winchester, Remington and Federal 328-385 gr. (man slugs ) sabots into anywhere from 1" to 3" at 100 yds? The Barnes, Partition and Core Lokt slugs loaded into these offerings, or at least were, are anything but soft. I have some spent slugs if anyone wants to see them. They are definitely designed for elk and African game and even the soft lead BRI slugs pass completely through a 200 lb whitetail and leave plenty of destruction behind. It's also the nicest slug gun you'll ever shoot. No sore shoulder after, no feeding problems and plenty of eye relief with the 4x shotgun scope. Take your deer, swap barrels and go duck hunting.

The boxes claim they leave the barrel at 1900 FPS. I'm not sure what length their test barrel is but my Browning wears a 24". To your point, the downside is that they are extremely hard to come by these days. Of what I have shot in the past I believe only the BRI and Partition Gold are still available, occasionally like all ammo these days, unless you find someone with a stash.

Like I said, if given the option I would take my gun with confidence. I've never shot a bolt slug gun but honestly I wouldn't expect much as far as feeding reliability from a few hundred dollar bolt shotgun anyways, I was merely talking from a "what is legal in Africa" stand point. Years ago I did covet a nice single shot 12 ga slug gun but then I moved out of Illinois and started hunting archery more and stopped thinking about it. To me, it would make much more sense than a bolt gun since as you mentioned it's like trying to feed a brick into a pipe.

Of course if you wanted to help me out I would love to hunt Africa or anywhere with a Paradox gun. I'm much younger than you but I believe our tastes align and we could pick out a nice one for me. Or we could build that fully rifled falling block 12 ga. I once dreamed of.

Let me know.

 

[CJW]

Areas in the US where hunting is restricted to slug guns are generally highly populated and if hunters were given the choice, most would choose hunt with modern rifle calibers. So why would you spend thousands of dollars to go to far away lands to hunt these amazing animals and choose a weapon that most wouldn't choose if they were hunting in their backyard?

Different strokes. Nobody said they're going to shoot a slug 300 yds at a 2000 lb Eland. Most don't choose to shoot archery yet we have an entire section devoted to it.

 

[rookhawk]

Maybe you should have just saved all of your money and bought a double use gun like my Browning Gold 12 ga. which puts Winchester, Remington and Federal 328-385 gr. (man slugs ) sabots into anywhere from 1" to 3" at 100 yds?

The accuracy achievable with a custom slug bolt far exceeds that of a pump

The boxes claim they leave the barrel at 1900 FPS. I'm not sure what length their test barrel is but my Browning wears a 24".

The ammo makers are liars piled atop “standard 28” proof barrels” that are anything but real-world standard. The 1900fps loads leave the muzzle at 1725-1735fps from

To your point, the downside is that they are extremely hard to come by these days. Of what I have shot in the past I believe only the BRI and Partition Gold are still available, occasionally like all ammo these days, unless you find someone with a stash.

Remington 20 gauge PRA20M 3” accutips in 260gr can sell for 8x retail. The discontinued federal / Barnes for 25x MSRP.

Of course if you wanted to help me out I would love to hunt Africa or anywhere with a Paradox gun. I'm much younger than you but I believe our tastes align and we could pick out a nice one for me. Or we could build that fully rifled falling block 12 ga. I once dreamed of.

Let me know.

Paradox guns shooting fosbury slugs through 4” of rifling at even more moderate speeds are a totally different animal. Cool for nostalgia, but never were appropriate for very large / dangerous game. They do about the same things at 50 yards as an original 45-70 at basic US gov velocities. Modern slug rifles are assumed to all be 20 gauge for accuracy reasons. If you want to build something with class, get a soiled Ruger #1 and build a 20 gauge slug rifle with quarter rib and express sights. They turn out excellent and extreme accuracy is possible, enough to justify the aggravation.

 

[CJW]

The accuracy achievable with a custom slug bolt far exceeds that of a pump

It's a semi auto.

Were your bolts single shot? Doesn't seem worth it to make them multi shot if it isn't going to feed worth a damn and cause headaches. May as well build a nice single shot at that point.

I figured the velocity on the box was a bunch of hog wash considering the load type. But still, you can't deny that in it's place a 385 gr partition slug at 1700 fps is pretty devastating to something soft skinned within 100 yds.

Oh well, it's all in vain anyways. Ammo availability and price make them pretty impractical to have much fun with more than a couple times a year. Check zero, kill your animal and prop the barrel or gun back into the corner of the gun cabinet. The shine as close range self defense guns in the bear woods.

Maybe I should look into learning to load my own.