Canadian Documentation

[Graham Hunter]

I had a customs officer fill out a green card for my guns and took my PAL with me. Used the pre entry gun permit service and no problems and fast.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I had a customs officer fill out a green card for my guns and took my PAL with me. Used the pre entry gun permit service and no problems and fast.

Glad you made it without but, not something I am about to attempt. If it happens to be "gun day" at the border crossing, look out.
Export permits are actually required by law here.

 

[Hank2211]

I had a customs officer fill out a green card for my guns and took my PAL with me. Used the pre entry gun permit service and no problems and fast.

If by this you mean you didn’t get the Canadian export permits, you took a big chance. Not just on the way out, but on the way back - which is when they’re most likely to ask to see the permits.

I don’t want to be on any Customs databases. None.

 

[Graham Hunter]

So are you supposed to do this to bring your guns to the states?

 

[Hank2211]

So are you supposed to do this to bring your guns to the states?

No. The US is specifically exempted. But you need an ATF Form 6 from the Americans, which takes more time than the Canadian documentation, in my experience.

 

[Graham Hunter]

So whose rule is it that you need an export permit to take your gun and scope ?? out of Canada?

 

[Hank2211]

So whose rule is it that you need an export permit to take your gun and scope ?? out of Canada?

The Government of Canada. The same guys who own the RCMP and Customs. Administered by Global Affairs (used to be DFAIT)

There is a rather long list of controlled exports. Firearms, firearm optics and ammunition are on it.

Most countries do the same. Ottawa is very good about this if you just give them the paper they want.

It’s the law. Really. Trust me on this one.

 

[Graham Hunter]

Well let me see. I have been to Africa 3 times, Argentina many times, New Zealand, Mexico and Scotland all with firearms. And I have had my firearms inspected both directions everytime and not one agent, Officer, Safety person etc. has ever said a word to me about an Export Permit. I find it hard to believe that the Cdn Customs agent who gave me my green card and works at an International Airport would not have known about this " Export Permit".

 

[Hank2211]

What can I say. You’re a lucky guy.

The green card is proof that you owned the item befor you left, so you don’t have to pay duty when you come back. I have one for a watch I have. It’s not the export permit.

But seriously, look up the rules. We’re not making this up. It’s the law. And if you get stopped, I guarantee that telling them you’ve done this half a dozen times before without a permit won’t help!

By the way, this is how the Government enforces the UN embargo on firearms to Zimbabwe. They won’t give you an export permit if your hunting destination is Zimbabwe. Unless the embargo’s been lifted. The assumption is that as a result you won’t be able to take a firearm to Zimbabwe. Again, I don’t think it would be a good idea to tell them you’ve done it anyway - although I don’t know if you’ve been there.

 

[Graham Hunter]

Well I guess I have a couple of major concerns with all this non sense. I have never in any way shape or form tried to circumvent any rules or regulations. However you tell me to look up the rules. Where? I have spoke to over 30 of my friends and hunting associates today and all who have hunted in several or many places in the world and not one of them has a clue what you are talking about or has had any problem with not having an "Export Permit" when travelling! And when Canadian Border Service tells me I am good to go I believe them. And I did hunt Zimbabwe in 2007 and had no problem with customs either direction!

 

[BRICKBURN]

...... However you tell me to look up the rules. Where?

Global Affairs Canada
"Exports to Countries Other than the United States
In general, both temporary and permanent exports of either Restricted, Non-Restricted, or Prohibited firearms to countries other than the United States must be authorized in advance with an export permit.

http://www.international.gc.ca/cont...eu/other-autres/license-demande.aspx?lang=eng
All contact information and the links to the regulations are on the page.

Go for post #2 in this thread. I have provided the links to EXCOL. The Federal Department in charge of Export Controls.

I have spoke to over 30 of my friends ............

The fact that your buddies may not be aware is not exactly a surprise to me.
Try this for a defense: "Your Honor, my buddies all said ...."

You do not require one for the USA. Typically, why most are unaware a permit is required.

And when Canadian Border Service tells me I am good to go I believe them. .....

I learned a very valuable lesson when I chatted with an officer once: Each officer with Customs has a different specialty or area of expertise. They do not know all the laws, who does. I guess you missed the one that knew about the export controls.

 

[Graham Hunter]

Guster who told you you needed this export certificate. Kind of like having an export certificate to drive your car to Mexico.

 

[Graham Hunter]

Brickburn don't be a smartass with me. I specifically asked the questions as one who has travelled a lot abroad with firearms. Also if I am not informed by the CBSA I guess I would never know. And your little remark towards my "friends" is not required. I have both exported and imported firearms from Canada but that means said firearm is going to a new home to reside and not going on a holiday. Sorry to trouble you with my ignorance and low IQ! I thought this forum was to help other like minded hunters.

 

[BRICKBURN]

@Graham Hunter If cars were actually controlled goods under the Export Controls Act, you would require a permit. Since, very little of your vehicle is likely to be any part of a weapon I doubt anyone cares about your old chev truck. (The bloody thing was liekly built in Mexico anyway.

The law has been in place for years. I am not sure when it was enacted for certain. Since I can remember anyway.

International political issues and international treaties that Canada is a party to require the government to control exports.

Arms Trade Treaties.
https://www.un.org/disarmament/convarms/salw/

The USA also enforces some restrictions on parts made in the USA. Scopes and some rifles can not be exported from Canada. By treaty the USA can block the export of your rifle, parts or scope.

 

[BRICKBURN]

I ran into the permit issue myself and was nearly caught out by an relatively unknown permit the US State Department requires. The USA chooses not to enforce that law though. It's a good thing, because it would cost $500 USD to get it.

Temporary export, is the issue we all have to deal with.

Just sharing some information.

 

[BRICKBURN]

The CBSA website on the subject of exporting firearms:

"If you are exporting any class of firearm to countries other than the USA, you need an export permit from Global Affairs."

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/import/iefw-iefa-eng.html

 

[BRICKBURN]

The "Green Card" Y38 Form, now renamed the DSF407, referred to earlier will allow you to avoid taxes and duties on your property upon your return to Canada if your property is listed on the form prior to your temporary export.
I have several and much of my expensive camera equipment is listed.

Given the USA's 4457 form being similar in size, etc, I can see why the authorities in Africa might perceive it as an export permit. It has a nice rubber ink stamp on it, which goes over very well in Africa.

 

[sheephunterab]

Most CBSA agents are unaware of the expert permit requirement...that's likely why you've been lucky and made it through without issue. You are really lucky with your trip to Zim as it's illegal for Canadians to take guns to Zim. Some guys are just trying to help you out here...ignore at your own peril! One day you'll run into a CBSA agent that knows the rules! Brickburn posted up the pertinent links...not sure what is left to argue about. Not only do you need one for your firearm, you need an additional one for scope and ammo.

 

[Doc25]

Could it be that Graham has always transited through the US? Not sure if he has but could customs let it go because of this?

I have read that some hunters go to RSA and then Zim to beat the no export to Zim. Would this not also work if someone was transiting through an American airport?

Not trying to circumvent laws here, just curious.

 

[Graham Hunter]

2007 flew from Toronto to Frankfurt to Jo Berg to Harare. That's how the agent booked it.