Why is it called a 404 Jeffery?

[ChrisG]

Its not exactly bore diameter like the .318 WR is actually the diameter of the holedrilled down the bore before it is rifled. I would guess a .404 is actually closer to .410 but I think everyone who has said that it just sounds good, makes sense to me. Same reason Dick Casull took a .357 Mag, loaded it to 60,000psi and called it a .353 Casull... It was the same naming convention as his .454. It is a great cartridge though! I have been shooting my .416 Ruger and having a blast with it... now if only it had the nostalgia and romance of the .404 I would be ecstatic to go to the range... Until my shoulder wore out. Dang Ruger... Who makes a .40+cal african rifle that weighs 7 3/4 lbs???!??

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Sort of like Formula 409?

 

[ChrisG]

Sort of like Formula 409?

I wonder if the .404 was the 404th iteration of their attempts to make an African Game Warden's Cartridge?

 

[Rick Hill]

Rick, Welcome to AH!

I have no idea but surely someone in this site can give you the answer. I look forward to learning something as well

What a fabulous out pouring of information. Please allow me to poke the embers of the campfire and ask since I can load a 404 from 300 to 450 Gr - would I leave the 375 home and do anyone of you have some 300 Gr loads. I have see velocities from 2300 to 2600 fps listed but it seems that above 2500 fps you just burn a lot more powder and make a load more recoil for you get? Any experience with the heavy for caliber loads from Norma?

Repectfuly,

Rick Hill

 

[Gsxrmike]

I remember reading in one of my books (apologies to the author but I can't remember which book) that another English gun maker had just released their medium-bore rifle in .425 so the Jeffery company felt that .423 was too similar so they named it .404 just to distinguish it from the .425.

 

[Wheels]

I remember reading in one of my books (apologies to the author but I can't remember which book) that another English gun maker had just released their medium-bore rifle in .425 so the Jeffery company felt that .423 was too similar so they named it .404 just to distinguish it from the .425.

I believe the 404J came out first. From my understanding, Westley Richards came out with the .425 as an answer to Jeffery's 404, making it just larger in diameter. A couple years later Rigby answered with the .416.

 

[The Bongo]

British measurements are nominal only. The .303 is arrived at by measuring the lands not the grooves (which are .311) but this is not a rule. The cartridge designation is just what you happened to fancy calling it on the patent.

For example, .275 is 6.9mm, but .275 Rigby is 7mm, the .275 just sounded better.

Interestingly.., a Russian 7.62 is actually a 7.89, or .311 which is the same as a .303B, which is of course larger than a .308/7.62. So both '7.62's are different sizes. But a .303 is bigger than a .308 and the same as some .762s. The Finnish . 7.62x53R is the same length as a Russian 7.62x54R, but has a .308 bullet, so smaller than a .303 or a Russian 7.62 but the same size as a NATO 7.62.

Rhyme or reason there is none. Best just to enjoy the shooting!

 

[sestoppelman]

Well like the magazine cover says, "enquiring minds want to know".

 

[cpr0312]

Tons of knowledge laid down on this question! I have enjoyed learning

 

[Clayton Holland]

I have heard the naming of the 404 to be in line with the popular 303 as Matt stated. I always have wondered if the 04 was a significant year in its development. Released in 1905 I always thought it made sense to be named as Jefferys 1904, 400 cartridge. The 404 Jeffery.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

404 Jeffery's

 

[Ray B]

A&F formerly was a great store.

 

[nztimb]

I have heard the naming of the 404 to be in line with the popular 303 as Matt stated. I always have wondered if the 04 was a significant year in its development. Released in 1905 I always thought it made sense to be named as Jefferys 1904, 400 cartridge. The 404 Jeffery.

I am inclined to go along with this thinking as well especially if you take the circumstances and timing into consideration.
The British had a great deal of faith and likeing for the 303 by this time after it was introduced in 1888. As the 1898 Mauser became the benchmark for a hunting bolt rifle,Jeffery was working on a magazine rifle to replicate the double rifle 450/400 3 inch case and when the 404 was developed in 1904 there had just been the military exceptance of the 30-o3 produced in the US. There was a real surge in cartridge deveopement from the time that smokeless had been developed and there was enormous interest in both the military and civilian hunting sectors. The fact that it was a 30 cal of 03 must have been very fresh in Jeffery's minds and so the 40 cal in 04 would have been a natural inclination but instead of the 40-04 they gave it the name they did to possibly mirror the great exceptance of the 303 with the familiarity of the type of name ing rythem.


This is C&P from another source
"Jeffery did not have access to magnum length Mauser actions and had no choice but to use the standard Mauser action. In doing this he could not use the 450/400-3" case turned into rimless as the degree of opening up needed would have affected action integrity too much.
Jeffery had co-designed a shorter rimless cartridge by reducing the case length of his popular .450/400x3" case from 3" 76.2mm to 73mm.
This still marginally reduced the safety margin, but was sufficiently strong as long as the pressure was kept at the original specification of 17.2 tons per square inch (2,240 lbs to the ton). This considerable reduction in the volume of the cartridge case would have resulted in a drastic increase in pressure had they retained the .450/400x3" load and kept the same diameter bullet as for the .450/400; namely the .408". Jeffery worked through Le Personne with Krupp regarding barrel specifications as well as Eley and Kynoch who possessed the cartridge design expertise, to duplicate combustion space by increasing the case base diameter from 13.76mm/0.5417" to 13.843mm/0.545" and the shoulder diameter of the .450/400x3" from 13.233mm/.521" to
13.462mm/.530". The rimless version's bullet diameter was consequently increased to .4225". The nett result of the modifications to the .450/400x3" was the shorter, fatter, rimless cartridge we know as the .404 Jeffery and which used the weight of bullet and propellant as its rimmed predecessor."

 

[Bos Javanicus]

Wow, what a bunch of conspiracy theorists we have here!! Personally, I haven't a clue, might just be one of those weird things the British do.
I like the A&F add and the stated weight of 8 1/2 lbs, which is where it should be. I built .404 on a Brno 602 single square bridge action and it weighs around 11 lb, way too much when you have to carry it around.

 

[Ray B]

If that extra 40 ounces is too much for you, you might consider hiring a gun bearer :<) :<)

 

[Bos Javanicus]

You will notice that extra 40 ounces after a 10 hour day humping it around I can assure you. Add 3 1/2 litres of water, food, knife, first aid gear etc etc etc, you feel every ounce. And not being 20 anymore (or anywhere near it) weight is everything.
And god forbid if I have to carry an animal out
I can't find a good gun bearer and my kids just tell me to get lost when I ask them.

 

[Rule 303]

I have heard the various reasons for the 404 moniker and all could be the reason. however I favour the tie in with the 303 name. Rigby loaded their 350Rigby magnum so the trajectory matched that of the 303, apparently. This resulted in a cartridge being well under loaded but apparently helped with sales. If this is the case then naming the 404 in line with the 303 & 505 tends to make sales sense.

 

[The Bongo]

I could be wrong, but I believe that the .404 first went on sale in 1909 having been in the design stage since around 1905. The .450 calibre cartridges were banned in the British Empire in 1907. It may have been not just ballistics which influenced bullet size. Jeffrey was prohibited from using the readily available (in England) .450.

 

[Wheels]

I could be wrong, but I believe that the .404 first went on sale in 1909 having been in the design stage since around 1905.

The 404j was first provided by Jeffery on a magnum action in 1909. (I believe). Rigby had exclusive right to Mauser's magnum action until that time.

It was definitely offered with the sporting and the military action in 1905. ie: My 404j was made by Jeffery in 1907. Two other AH members have or have had pre 1909 404j's made by Jeffery as I recall

 

[The Bongo]

Thanks for the correction!

Lovely that you have a Jeffrey of that vintage.