Light, flat & fast...What round should I choose?

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I had a similar "itch" recently. I added a 257 Weatherby Magnum just two weeks ago. I have had it out on several occasions. I am beyond impressed with the laser-like trajectory and highly manageable recoil. My order of .257 92-grain Hammer bullets has arrived, and I am looking forward to pushing these out in the 3600-3700 fps velocity range (plus or minus).

@Rob.450/400
You should be able to get birth of 3,800fps with those.
Bob

 

[akrifleman]

@Rob.450/400
You should be able to get birth of 3,800fps with those.
Bob

And stellar results. Hammers work.

 

[akrifleman]

@odonata
Firing a 25-06 from a 22" barrel has very little effect on velocity
But
A 257 Weatherby from a 22" barrel turns it into a 25-06. That round really benefits from a 26" pipe to burn 79 plus grains of powder.
Bib

I believe you (25-06), but I tried a 21" and went back to a 25". For me the results were really ugly. I suspect it is borderline, because I've heard it both ways

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

FYI, this was a question in my mind too, the real-world usefulness of a small caliber for PG. I will spare you the research (including a few threads here on AH)
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...-antelopes-opinions-please.45286/#post-478661

To make a long story short, the 257 Wby has been incredibly effective. When I tested it the first time in Africa, I went on a dedicated PG and MG (mountain game) safari in the Eastern Cape, and used it for a long string of one shot kills from Vaal Rhebok to Roan. I experienced 100% one-shot-kill reliability on 17 animals.
https://www.africahunting.com/threa...ill-safaris-even-better-than-last-year.52376/

Now, in truth Roan in Africa, or Elk in the USA, are probably a little past the upper limit for the caliber. Yes, the 100 gr TTSX launched by the .257 Wby kills elks every year in the US, but my personal view is that you must limit yourself to behind-the-shoulder-double lung/heart shots when using a 100 gr .257 slug for this class of animals. But if you do that, the results are absolutely astonishing.

I have owned .222, .223, .22/250, .243, 6 Rem, 6.5x54 MS, .270 Win, 7x64, 7x65R, 7 Rem, .308, .30-06, .300 Win, .300 Wby, .338 Win, .340 Wby, 9.3x62, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, .458 Win, .458 Lott, .450 #2, .470 NE, Lord, what do I forget? and I can state unambiguously that the .257 Wby is the most versatile caliber I ever used.

No, I will not try it on Buffalo, as Roy did (a stunt if you ask me), and when I go specifically after select trophies in the 500+ lbs. class I bolt on the .300 Wby barrel on the R8, but in truth, I now use the .257 Wby 100 gr TTSX for most of my PG and MG hunting.

@One Day...
Like your good self I use my 25 for 99% of my hunting, it's just so versatile.
I do bring out the Whelen if'n I need anything bigger.
To me a fast 25 and a good 35 cover 100% of game even DG in the right hands.
Is the 35 a stopping calibre, definitely NOT but it has been shown time and time again that the 350 Rigby magnum ( Whelen equivalent) is more than capable of taking really, really big critters. Bigger is definitely better but in a pinch it can be done with little issues.
I rest my case your honour.
I know this will get the hackles up of the bigger is better crowd and I'm not advocating the use of smaller calibers for DG. Just pointing out it has been done successfully in the past so why not now with better components.
Bob

 

[steve white]

Shaw Custom Barrels has a similar offering where a shooter can choose from a variety of options to build a custom rifle (including left-handed models).



The reason I don't have any rifles with the characteristics I described in my original post is for the reasons @Old3Toe listed above. I currently own several nice rifles that fall into this category. If I was going to retitle this thread, it would probably be "If I decide to go chasing hypervelocity quarter-bores at the end of a rainbow, what do you recommend?". So the purpose of my original question was to simply get more opinions about a range of bullet weights I currently don't shoot. Do I need one? What is the best choice if I decide to acquire one? Should I continue to stay put with the excellent options I already own? These were the questions I was pondering.



A good real-world confirmation of what I was envisioning this new rifle to be used for.




By focusing on lower-weight bullets, I assumed I was going to negate some of the advantages of more modern chamberings (e.g. the 7mm PRC) by eliminating a few long, heavy, high-BC bullet choices they were designed to shoot. Shooting heavier bullets like that out of my LH Sako 30-06 is probably the main thing that's stopped me from buying something smaller & lighter.



I've never seen a left-handed Mannlicher Schoenauer so that's why I don't have one in my safe. I love the classics! My 6.5x55 is a favorite & I've taken more deer with it than any other cartridge. So buying a LH Tikka or Sako in that chambering & setting it up to shoot a 120gr bullet is not totally out of the question.



I really like my left-handed Steyr CL II. The reason I asked that question was because I saw the Steyr SM12 could be acquired in 7x64 so I was kind of curious how low people were going with it & what the results were. Thanks for the feedback! This rifle also comes in 25-06, 6.5x55 & 270 Win so it's like a Siren's Song luring me towards another bad financial decision...

View attachment 735185

Yep, a left handed M-S would be the unicorn that does not exist, even in fairy tales, unfortunately. And it is a wonder they made no such provision. But so much machining went into the original, they probably deemed it an unprofitable option.

 

[odonata]

If your goal is a short barrel, than long ratio cartridges become inefficient.

My goal is not a short barrel. My goal is an efficient & appropriate setup.

My concern was manufacturers like Sako & Steyr making their left-handed 25-06's with 22" barrels. I was asking if that was too short because based on the opinions of some other shooters, it is. So I was simply asking for additional feedback from this group on how they felt about 22" barrels and that particular recommended round. I had passed on multiple opportunities to buy rifles like this because I always wanted at least a 24" barrel.

It was a bit of a disappointment that the 257 Roberts was never made in a left-handed rifle. It was also disappointing when some of the really nice left-handed 25-06's that I would have loved to own came with barrels shorter than I wanted. Finding the "perfect" quarter bore at a price I liked has been a little more of a challenge than some of the other calibers.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

View attachment 735232

@One Day...
On the blank headstone it should read 243. The most useless cartridge invented.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I believe you (25-06), but I tried a 21" and went back to a 25". For me the results were really ugly. I suspect it is borderline, because I've heard it both ways

@akrifleman
I run a compromise on my 25 a 24" tube.
My Whelen runs a 25" tube
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

My goal is not a short barrel. My goal is an efficient & appropriate setup.

My concern was manufacturers like Sako & Steyr making their left-handed 25-06's with 22" barrels. I was asking if that was too short because based on the opinions of some other shooters, it is. So I was simply asking for additional feedback from this group on how they felt about 22" barrels and that particular recommended round. I had passed on multiple opportunities to buy rifles like this because I always wanted at least a 24" barrel.

It was a bit of a disappointment that the 257 Roberts was never made in a left-handed rifle. It was also disappointing when some of the really nice left-handed 25-06's that I would have loved to own came with barrels shorter than I wanted. Finding the "perfect" quarter bore at a price I liked has been a little more of a challenge than some of the other calibers.

@odonata
You could beat the left hand blues and go a nice Browning B78 or a CVA single shot. In these both come with a 25 or 26" tube.
Problem solved. Ambidextrous, right barrel length, right overall length and depending on barrel profile light weight.
Bob

 

[odonata]

@odonata
You could beat the left hand blues and go a nice Browning B78 or a CVA single shot. In these both come with a 25 or 26" tube.
Problem solved. Ambidextrous, right barrel length, right overall length and depending on barrel profile light weight.
Bob

Single shots are always a viable ambidextrous option which is why I own eight falling blocks. For this particular rifle my desire was a bolt action. I had looked at B78’s in 25-06 in the past but every one that I’ve seen has a right-handed cheek weld on the butt stock which annoyed a bit. On falling blocks, doubles, kipplaufs, etc., I’m a fan of neutral stocks if that is an available option. I have taken deer shooting both left and right handed when I had limited movement sitting in a tree stand.

 

[One Day...]

You know, odonata, it sounds so obvious I hate to mention it, but based on your various responses during the thread, a left hand Weatherby Mark V Accumark in .257 Wby would check a lot of boxes...

 

[hoytcanon]

My goal is not a short barrel. My goal is an efficient & appropriate setup.

My concern was manufacturers like Sako & Steyr making their left-handed 25-06's with 22" barrels. I was asking if that was too short because based on the opinions of some other shooters, it is. So I was simply asking for additional feedback from this group on how they felt about 22" barrels and that particular recommended round. I had passed on multiple opportunities to buy rifles like this because I always wanted at least a 24" barrel.

It was a bit of a disappointment that the 257 Roberts was never made in a left-handed rifle. It was also disappointing when some of the really nice left-handed 25-06's that I would have loved to own came with barrels shorter than I wanted. Finding the "perfect" quarter bore at a price I liked has been a little more of a challenge than some of the other calibers.

Ar the risk of p*ss*ng off old Bobber Nelson... I am not a fan of the quarter bores... strange as I have had many, but despite that fact... they are a red-headed step child when it comes to bullet availability and power level in the hunting spectrum. In my retirement downsizing, I off-loaded anything of that ill-conceived, ill-supported reject of a caliber... jumping straight from .22 cal to 6.5mm. The 6.5's are better in every way and can utilize bullets from 100 grains to 160 grains. 120's should work for anything you want to do.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

The .257 caliber like the .277 caliber is a uniquely USA cartridge development. The .257 is a very useful dual purpose caliber. In fact the .257 caliber has enjoyed a tremendous rise in use by professional competitive riflemen in the Professional Rifle Series. The .257” is now second in use behind the 6mm and ahead of the 6.5mm selected by some of the finest riflemen in the world. I have the .257 Bee, .257 Bob, and 25 WSSM. I have used my 25 WSSM as a dual purpose cartridge on the windy American Great Plains for pronghorn hunting in combination with long range varmint shooting. The special Winchester super short WSSM action along with a fat bolt makes the action exceptionally stiff. My 25 WSSM is MOA at 1,000 yards and shoots one-ragged hole out to 200 yards. In over 20 years it has never failed to feed, fire and eject. I anneal my cases and load with LE Wilson hand dies. The .257 Weatherby is tremendous but is not designed for sustained fire over a dog town. Both the Roberts and WSSM can be used for longer shooting sessions. The Weatherby is at the top of the list for long range shooting at light big game.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Ar the risk of p*ss*ng off old Bobber Nelson... I am not a fan of the quarter bores... strange as I have had many, but despite that fact... they are a red-headed step child when it comes to bullet availability and power level in the hunting spectrum. In my retirement downsizing, I off-loaded anything of that ill-conceived, ill-supported reject of a caliber... jumping straight from .22 cal to 6.5mm. The 6.5's are better in every way and can utilize bullets from 100 grains to 160 grains. 120's should work for anything you want to do.

@odonata,

I've nothing to add from an experience point of view. Outside of my .22LR, the only small bore I've owned was a Tikka .223, which was lights out accurate and fun to shoot. But I didn't find myself hunting with it and sold it off for some other gun.

Next up from there, I've never owned anything less than a .270 Winchester. But your thread has rekindled my interest in the smaller bores as I swore after shooting a .25-06, that I'd own another varmint/deer rifle sometime in the future. So I've been doing a bit of research the last couple of days and thought I'd share what I've found FWIW to you.

The 6.5 PRC was mentioned earlier in this thread and now @hoytcanon has brought up the 6.5s too, and I think he has a good point here. Do yourself a favor and go to Hodgdon's reloading website located here: https://hodgdonreloading.com/rldc/

You can compare 100gr bullet loads for the .257 Weatherby and the 6.5 PRC. If you do you'll find that the 6.5 PRC is right up there in many cases with the .257Wby. There are few loads shown that the Wby is faster, but there's actually not a lot of loads listed for the 6.5 PRC. So perhaps using the same powders that gave those faster Wby loads would work in the PRC too for greater velocity.

Note that the Wby loads shown are for a 26" barrel versus a 24" barrel.

For the Wby lovers on this thread who may be getting hackled at my post, relax, I'm not throwing water on the caliber. But for @odonata or anyone else, it perhaps opens other doors to a larger selection of factory rifles.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want the .257Wby, it looks like to me you're limited to either a Weatherby product or a custom build.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Single shots are always a viable ambidextrous option which is why I own eight falling blocks. For this particular rifle my desire was a bolt action. I had looked at B78’s in 25-06 in the past but every one that I’ve seen has a right-handed cheek weld on the butt stock which annoyed a bit. On falling blocks, doubles, kipplaufs, etc., I’m a fan of neutral stocks if that is an available option. I have taken deer shooting both left and right handed when I had limited movement sitting in a tree stand.

@odonata
Man your picky
If'n it's only the cheek piece on the stock but a nice blank and get it done to your liking. Problem solved.
Bob

 

[NIGHTHAWK]

.243

 

[odonata]

Ar the risk of p*ss*ng off old Bobber Nelson... I am not a fan of the quarter bores... he 6.5's are better in every way and can utilize bullets from 100 grains to 160 grains. 120's should work for anything you want to do.

I absolutely love my 6.5x55 SE. It's a great round that I've gotten a lot of good results from. Earlier this year, I got a quote for a new left-handed Sako 90 Bavarian in that chambering. I was actually on the phone waiting to order it when I balked & decided to pause on a new rifle purchase. But completing that purchase & shooting lighter bullets out of it is definitely a viable outcome of this process. I now have a LOT of good options to choose from. My smallest bolt action rifle is the 22-250. My next bolt action rifle is a 30-06. I just had a desire to put another bolt action between those two so that's why I limited the caliber selection in my original question. I also wanted to hear what the AH brain trust thought should go there. Y'all have not disappointed with the copious feedback.

The 6.5 PRC was mentioned earlier in this thread and now @hoytcanon has brought up the 6.5s too, and I think he has a good point here...But for @odonata or anyone else, it perhaps opens other doors to a larger selection of factory rifles...Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you want the .257Wby, it looks like to me you're limited to either a Weatherby product or a custom build.

Begara started making left-handed 6.5 PRC rifles so that is definitely a viable option. Right now there's about ~200 LH Weatherby's in 257 Wby on GunBroker so that is an easy option as well. They all have synthetic stocks which has not been my preferred choice in the past and 26+2" barrels.

Man your picky
If'n it's only the cheek piece on the stock but a nice blank and get it done to your liking. Problem solved.

I prefer the term "discriminating gentleman with good taste" but I guess "picky" is sufficiently accurate as well. It's only gotten worse as the number of empty slots in my safe has dwindled. "Super picky" is probably the more accurate description now. "Annoyingly picky" would also work.

 

[Old3Toe]

I really like my left-handed Steyr CL II. The reason I asked that question was because I saw the Steyr SM12 could be acquired .... so it's like a Siren's Song luring me towards another bad financial decision...

View attachment 735185

Cartridge choices aside, that Steyr SM12 is an exceedingly handsome rifle. However, I don't think I'd get along with Steyr's new "RESET ACTION" that automatically decocks the rifle if it's angled or tilted too much. Also something about an LED of some sort... Seems like a solution in search of a problem. Does your Steyr CL II have this safety feature? Maybe it's a well designed nonissue and I'm just unenlightened?

 

[odonata]

...I don't think I'd get along with Steyr's new "RESET ACTION" that automatically decocks the rifle if it's angled or tilted too much.

It's an optional "upgrade" on that particular model that I too would pass on. The attraction of the SM12 was mostly the left-handed option & the caliber selection. The attraction of my CL II was the price I got it for. I was shopping for a 9.3x62 but made a compromise when I stumbled on a great deal.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

I absolutely love my 6.5x55 SE. It's a great round that I've gotten a lot of good results from. Earlier this year, I got a quote for a new left-handed Sako 90 Bavarian in that chambering. I was actually on the phone waiting to order it when I balked & decided to pause on a new rifle purchase. But completing that purchase & shooting lighter bullets out of it is definitely a viable outcome of this process. I now have a LOT of good options to choose from. My smallest bolt action rifle is the 22-250. My next bolt action rifle is a 30-06. I just had a desire to put another bolt action between those two so that's why I limited the caliber selection in my original question. I also wanted to hear what the AH brain trust thought should go there. Y'all have not disappointed with the copious feedback.



Begara started making left-handed 6.5 PRC rifles so that is definitely a viable option. Right now there's about ~200 LH Weatherby's in 257 Wby on GunBroker so that is an easy option as well. They all have synthetic stocks which has not been my preferred choice in the past and 26+2" barrels.



I prefer the term "discriminating gentleman with good taste" but I guess "picky" is sufficiently accurate as well. It's only gotten worse as the number of empty slots in my safe has dwindled. "Super picky" is probably the more accurate description now. "Annoyingly picky" would also work.